ICT Teachers finally find out what BSF means

[Dos_Box]

http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2576350&path=/ict/&threadPage=1

 

Bless. No one told them anything?

[Jake]

That post about the indian call centre to get a guy from upstairs to sort a paper jam is priceless.

[Dos_Box]

Hows that going to be if those cables get cut again? Or there are other comms problems?

[contink]

On the up side perhaps this will mean a few teachers will start to appreciate what they have already.

[CyberNerd]

OK got through to stuff on edugeek forum but I still don't see any evidence that it means there are going to be cut backs in support staff. I just wonder if there is some scaremongering and over dramatisation being embedded here?

 

"Your will also lose your in house ICT Support Community and your School Network Manager." - why? can you provide soild evidence that this will happen in every case? I have to be honest and say that I just can't believe that support staff are going to get the bullet.

 

met with disbelief. much the same as the earliest BSF posts here.

[broc]

On the up side perhaps this will mean a few teachers will start to appreciate what they have already.

 

Some will only really appreciate what they HAD, when it's gone

[leco]

On the up side perhaps this will mean a few teachers will start to appreciate what they have already.

 

Enters the fray singing "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone."

[Gatt]

If the damn site would let me view posts when i'm logged onto it i'd post something but I'm getting this...

 

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[witch]

I spoke to the dep head today - he is also responsible for ICTAC and was the IT co-ord in his previous school

I know Dorset is a way down the BSF list but I was shocked that he had not heard anything about it and certainly knew nothing about the ICT issues

He does now!

[leco]

I spoke to the dep head today - he is also responsible for ICTAC and was the IT co-ord in his previous school

I know Dorset is a way down the BSF list but I was shocked that he had not heard anything about it and certainly knew nothing about the ICT issues

He does now!

 

Is this a case of the teachers, like IT techs, being treated like mushrooms perhaps? Or are they being selectively blind and deaf?

[Grommit]

http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2576350&path=/ict/&threadPage=1

 

Bless. No one told them anything?

 

I do not understand you Dos_Box.. here is someone trying to start a ball rolling to stop the cull of ICT Managers and keep ICT In-House you defend the BSF ?!?! Why ?

 

It is not all doom and gloom however. Some companies will bend over backwards to accomodate you. But unfortunately it is too early to see which will provide the best service.

 

Why did you say that...? are you trying to sabotage any movement to stop the BSF .... Is your job that safe ?

Edited February 12, 2008 by Grommit

[CyberNerd]

I do not understand you Dos_Box.. here is someone trying to start a ball rolling to stop the cull of ICT Managers and keep ICT In-House you defend the BSF ?!?! Why ?

 

It is not all doom and gloom however. Some companies will bend over backwards to accomodate you. But unfortunately it is too early to see which will provide the best service.

 

Why did you say that...? are you trying to sabotage any movement to stop the BSF .... Is your job that safe ?

 

I think your being a bit OTT here grommit, there are definitely some really badly run school networks where BSF is going to be very welcome indeed.

 

I really wish there was some middle way, where schools that already adhere to accepted standards are recognised. The problem is really that BSF is such a blanket approach, all this rhetoric about 'no 2 contracts the same' just doesn't wash. Becta have already drawn up the standards that is required, if schools can meet the standard then leave them alone!.

[Butuz]

I do not understand you Dos_Box.. here is someone trying to start a ball rolling to stop the cull of ICT Managers and keep ICT In-House you defend the BSF ?!?! Why ?

 

Simple answer is because for many schools BSF will actually improve ICT provision in a big way.

 

Schools with very good network managers would be hit hardest under BSF as they would probably see a decrease in the quality if ICT support. Schools with bad network managers (or even no network manager) would see an increase in the quality of ICT support under BSF.

 

I do think however Dos_Box may be being slightly nieve with respect to the idea that BSF companies will bend over backwards to help schools. They may bend over backwards at the start - but as soon as they have some concrete data on how ICT support is being used in the schools they wil probably start to bend over backwards less and less. No profitable company can afford to bend over backwards for every customer - its simply not practicable.

 

I am watching the BSF closely, safe as I am in Wales (for now!)

 

Andrew

[Dos_Box]

As had been mentioned. I do not like the idea of BSF ICT support, and the way it is going to affect some schools. Some schools have appalling in house IT support for a variety of reasons, and to deny this would be very naive.

So for some it will be a great step up. For the rest however they really won't know what has hit them as corporate IT practices will reduce them to a level of frustration not seen since Windows 95 hit the classrooms.

The TES posts also show just how in the dark the average teacher is about BSF. The loss of control of many aspects of their teaching enviroments will come as a huge shock for many I suspect. I am not advocating BSF, just presenting a reality for some.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Dos_Box

[sahmeepee]

The TES posts also show just how in the dark the average teacher is about BSF. The loss of control of many aspects of theor teaching enviroments will come as a huge shock for many I suspect.

 

I've not met a single teacher yet outside of our SLT that knows anything about BSF. This is presumably to lay the groundwork for a "surprise! free goodies!" launch.

[contink]

Why would teachers (except perhaps ICT specialists) be told this stuff?

 

You've got to remember that IT is about 10%, if that, of their actual teaching provision and even then it's a case of "it should work". They don't care who provides it, how much it costs (unless they are paying from their own budget) or what will and won't run until the day they walk in and find it doesn't, won't or can't work.

 

Add to that they have the plethora of new government initiatives being thrown at them on how standing on your left frontal lobe while singing the British National Anthem in C minor has been shown to increase concentration, and the like.

 

Bottom line, to 99% of teachers IT is an arcane art form ruled by wizards and trolls (depending on whether it's working or not ) and they just don't have the time or rather the inclination to care or worry about the future. Thus, when it all does finally come in, they'll scream ruddy murder for about a week (if that) and then add it to the long list of other gripes and problems they have.

 

To be completely honest seeing the other half job hunting and noting the number of head teacher and SMT positions being advertised I think the biggest problem is going to be a total lack of leadership. IT is really not going to be their priority.

[Lithium]

If they embraced it instead of complaining about it... it'd go down better

[Grommit]

I think your being a bit OTT here grommit, there are definitely some really badly run school networks where BSF is going to be very welcome indeed.

 

I really wish there was some middle way, where schools that already adhere to accepted standards are recognised. The problem is really that BSF is such a blanket approach, all this rhetoric about 'no 2 contracts the same' just doesn't wash. Becta have already drawn up the standards that is required, if schools can meet the standard then leave them alone!.

 

I don't think so... You have always made your stance clear on RM and the BSF

 

Here someone tries to put the fear of God into Teachers to try and start a groundswell against Managed Services and the disaster it will create not to mention the loss of our jobs..

 

and you try to pacify them by saying it’s not so bad….?!?

[Grommit]

Oh crap now Grumbledook is trying to play sitting on the fence and it's not all bad and it might be quite good card..

 

Christ you guys just kill any movement to support In House ICT

Edited February 12, 2008 by Grommit

[GrumbleDook]

No .. I said the same I have on other occasions ... for some it will be better than what they have at the moment, for some it will make little difference (to either the ICT or the T&L that ICT has an impact on) and for some it will screw things up.

 

I am also pointing out, again, that we can point blame at lots of places, but if you are serious about trying to get some groundswell of support yo have to realise that this is the Govts answer to a problem

 

Come up with a better solution and people will listen. Jump up and down and moan and you will get ignored or laughed at. The only other option is to come out fighting and that involved unions. They are being surprisingly quiet. Teaching unions are not interested at the moment. A cynic might say (as one union person has said to me) that if the first few schools fail then they can use some of it to get a better deal for teachers. Teaching unions are going to be no help at this time.

 

Seriously ... come up with a plan, one that people can really see being worth giving a go, and you may be happy to get a response.

[webman]

Come up with a better solution and people will listen.

 

Hmm, I don't know... how about making the mandatory ICT managed service less mandatory or entirely optional without loss of funding? Us on the front line will not get listened to by the people at the top because they know best (apparently).

[steve]

Hmm, I don't know... how about making the mandatory ICT managed service less mandatory or entirely optional without loss of funding? Us on the front line will not get listened to by the people at the top because they know best (apparently).

 

And exactly how would that get the labour party and their sycophants more donations / loans / directorships / jobs for the boys ? ;-)

[steve]

A few t-shirts suggestions for BETT 2009....

 

Businesses Siphon the Funds

Bleed Schools of Finances

Bankrolling Shysters and Fatcats

Buying Substandard Facilities

Buying Sycophants Ferraris

 

[broc]

When I worked in industry my employer had a set of rules, or 'business conduct guidelines'. One of these rules was that you should never be disparaging about competitors. We were told that breaking this rule would result in disciplinary action and could lead to dismissal. However, we were also told how to ensure that our customers and prospective customers were well informed about our product strengths vs the competition by asking the right questions

 

Now, if you apply this philosophy to BSF, it says

 

Don't waste time knocking the suppliers or bidders or supporters who are promoting BSF, they are only doing their job..... all you will do is be accused of self-interest & trying to protect the status quo. Network Managers are often accused of being very protective towards 'their' networks..... I occasionally have to remind myself from time to time that it's not 'my' network it's the schools

 

I am not saying we should roll-over without a fight; we should be prepared to challenge all aspects of BSF in a critical, positive way.

 

There is nothing to prevent you from pointing out how well things work now, or allow you to ask searching questions about how things might work in the future. Cracks will appear in the polished solutions proposed if you probe hard enough. I do agree however that for some schools BSF will undoubtedly provide a better more professional ICT service.

 

Don't expect much support from the Trade Unions. There are too few ICT staff in the unions to make it a major issue. The Unions have their hands full with wage negotiations, Single Status, threats of litigation because of sex discrimination to worry about a few ICT staff..... the Unions will be happy as long as TUPE rules are followed.

 

Not knocking BSF bidders does not stop you from ensuring that the school leadership team at your school is well prepared to ask probing questions of potential suppliers or make sure that the Draft Output specification is packed with detail that will ensure your school gets the level of service it wants from a managed service provider. You may make it un-affordable in the process, but at least this will enable you to point out forcibly that schools will either have to pay more or accept less.

 

I seek every opportunity to challenge BSF; I try very hard to be constructive although it can be difficult at times.

 

If all of the head teachers in a LA were to agree that they wanted to maintain their ICT support staffing levels before the bidding process begins then the LA would have to take this into consideration.

 

There are changes happening in the BSF process; some LAs are making significant progress in convincing PfS that they have a greater role to play in delivering the managed ICT service. This is not being achieved by being negative towards BSF, but by showing how things could be done better by involving the LA in a greater capacity.

[Heebeejeebee]

It doesn't matter what we or any-one else thinks. In the end all LT can see in front of them is a shiny new school with shiny classrooms and shiny ICT kit. Bugger the consequences!

 

My Head knew nothing about how BSF would affect the in house ICT delivery (primarily because they're not being told by the LA) and has said 'over my dead body will I sign up to that' but everyone knows that it's not the Head's decision in the end - foundation or not and that we'll get TUPED over regardless.

 

Teachers won't care in the main because in my experience they just don't. We're a different and much lower class and we should expect to be treated like dirt! So long as they keep their holidays and get paid more for doing less they'll remain happy(ish).

 

 

HBJB