100+ PC Replacement

[Bobby_Moore]

Dear all,

 

We are about to send out an RFQ (government framework) for our workstation replacement. We have around 550 devices on-site and are looking to replace over 100 of them this year.

 

This is the requirements we are sending out:

 

· 20” Wide screen monitor & stand - or above

o Can be third party

· Small form factor / Slim PC that can attach to the back of aforementioned monitor via a monitor bracket/mount

o This will make the PC a more ‘all-in-one’ configuration – examples *attached

o Mount/stand should be same manufacture as PC

· 4GB Ram or above

· Intel i5 processor – 2.9ghz quad, 5^th generation or above

o No mobile (M, T or U) processor models

o Has a benchmark of over 6800 - https://www.cpubenchmark.net

· No DVD Drives

 

I tend to steer away from the smaller companies and buy into reputable vendors, like HP/Lenovo etc.

 

What are people doing for mass PC replacements? Are people finding the Intel NUCs value for money?

We are using VDI to achieve some cost savings but PCs in question require a bit more local processing power, didn't know if people are using any new methods to achieve any considerable cost savings?

 

Best wishes,

Edited May 23, 2016 by Bobby_Moore

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Dear all,

 

We are about to send out an RFQ (government framework) for our workstation replacement. We have around 550 devices on-site and are looking to replace over 100 of them this year.

 

This is the requirements we are sending out:

 

· 20” Wide screen monitor & stand - or above

o Can be third party

· Small form factor / Slim PC that can attach to the back of aforementioned monitor via a monitor bracket/mount

o This will make the PC a more ‘all-in-one’ configuration – examples *attached

o Mount/stand should be same manufacture as PC

· 4GB Ram or above

· Intel i5 processor – 2.9ghz quad, 5^th generation or above

o No mobile (M, T or U) processor models

o Has a benchmark of over 6800 - https://www.cpubenchmark.net

· No DVD Drives

 

I tend to steer away from the smaller companies and buy into reputable vendors, like HP/Lenovo etc.

 

What are people doing for mass PC replacements? Are people finding the Intel NUCs value for money?

We are using VDI to achieve some cost savings but PCs in question require a bit more local processing power, didn't know if people are using any new methods to achieve any considerable cost savings?

 

Best wishes,

 

 

Are you open to quotes from suppliers on here? only I could offer you something very similar from my refurb range (with a 5 year warranty to boot) but for considerably less that you'd pay for new.

[DavePa]

We purchased a bunch of HP 800 g1 usff and use them under the monitor as show here: https://youtu.be/E6uZdzGHykI?t=18s. Ours are i3 rather than i5 but think i5 was an option - we just decided that the i3 was enough for the proposed use.

 

We also have a bunch of the 8200 that fit behind the screens but have had more vandalism with those for some reason

[Xellpnz]

Dear all,

 

We are about to send out an RFQ (government framework) for our workstation replacement. We have around 550 devices on-site and are looking to replace over 100 of them this year.

 

This is the requirements we are sending out:

 

· 20” Wide screen monitor & stand - or above

o Can be third party

· Small form factor / Slim PC that can attach to the back of aforementioned monitor via a monitor bracket/mount

o This will make the PC a more ‘all-in-one’ configuration – examples *attached

o Mount/stand should be same manufacture as PC

· 4GB Ram or above

· Intel i5 processor – 2.9ghz quad, 5^th generation or above

o No mobile (M, T or U) processor models

o Has a benchmark of over 6800 - https://www.cpubenchmark.net

· No DVD Drives

 

I tend to steer away from the smaller companies and buy into reputable vendors, like HP/Lenovo etc.

 

What are people doing for mass PC replacements? Are people finding the Intel NUCs value for money?

We are using VDI to achieve some cost savings but PCs in question require a bit more local processing power, didn't know if people are using any new methods to achieve any considerable cost savings?

 

Best wishes,

 

Just something to think about, 4gb of ram now days is not that future proof. Even more so if you want it to last more than a few years. With a 5th gen i5, it would be more invested to go with at least 8gb (1600+ if possible). Reason i say this is that you have the power house CPU, but without the ram, your only a single race horse. aka Can run one program great, not to great at multiple. Even with the quad/ht cores your going to see a decrease in performance when muti tasking. If you amendment on 4gb, go with a i3 top spec, slightly cheaper better for your buck.

 

But thats my 5cents on the subject! Just hate to see wasted cash =)

[CHiLL]

I know you said no Intel 'T' models, but...

 

Last summer we purchased ~250 HP ProDesk G400 G1 computers. All have the following specs:

Intel Core i5-4590T (which scores 5,485 according to CPU Benchmark)

8GB RAM

120GB SSD

 

The PCs came with a bracket each for mounting onto a 100x100 VESA mount.

 

The slim DVD drives were optional, and simply added onto the PC bracket and connected via a USB 3.0 cable.

 

They have been a good purchase for us. They've been more than quick enough for our school's needs, they're easy to fit and all have a 5 year next business day warranty.

[newpersn]

Stone Computers. Small form factors with stand to attach to monitor.

@Stone_Charli

[clockend25]

We went for refurbs this year and have to say I think we'll stick with them for the foreseeable future. Twice our normal spec at half the price with a good warranty: BOOM.

[Blue_Cookeh]

We got Iiyama 22" monitors and basic Logitech keyboard/mice from Insight UK, and some Intel NUCs (upgraded to 120GB SSDs) from @VeryPC; which I am very pleased with. Got 3 year warranties on them too. I think total cost per PC & peripherals ended up at about £300ish?

 

Deployed them last week and the performance for these little machines under Win10 is as expected, fantastic. Also Windows 10 seems to have literally all the necessary drivers built in already, that made imaging with SCCM even easier!

 

I don't know what you guys are putting on your machines, but I think you're all severely overestimating the power you need (although I'm a big fan of the NUCs, you can get them up to i7 and 16GB RAM I believe).

Edited May 23, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh

[Arthur]

I'm a big fan of the NUCs, you can get them up to i7 and 16GB RAM I believe).

The 5th and 6th gen NUCs support 32GB RAM now.

 

With 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 RAM costing only ~£44 + VAT I can't see why anyone would spec just 4GB RAM on a new computer.

[mdrabble]

I'll be in a position next year where I'll need to replace 2 possibly 3 it suites of core 2 duo all in ones so I'll be looking at refurbs.

[Wubbalubbadub]

I'v been buying Dell 9030 all in ones! i5, 8GB. £4-500 a piece mind!

[sonofsanta]

I honestly think an i5 is a waste of money in a school except in specific circumstances (e.g. photography, media). They cost so much, and PowerPoint and IE are barely going to register on those chips :/

[Xellpnz]

I honestly think an i5 is a waste of money in a school except in specific circumstances (e.g. photography, media). They cost so much, and PowerPoint and IE are barely going to register on those chips :/

 

For some schools its helpful to go with i5 or i7s if possible. For example we are unable to provide a upgrade to everything for many years, hell most the school i work at are all on Dual core duos! Plus going for cheap i5 2500ks, and overclocking them will make sure they are worth while for a good term.

 

its all about that ratio, if you can afford every so many years, go with something lower, i3 and upgrade every so often. If you can only do it so many more x2 then go with something more powerhouse and make it last that length of time.

 

Its all about planning and making most of that investment in your tools and getting the most out of them.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

I honestly think an i5 is a waste of money in a school except in specific circumstances (e.g. photography, media). They cost so much, and PowerPoint and IE are barely going to register on those chips :/

 

Unless you buy refurb Sub £200 i5's FTW!

[Steve21]

I honestly think an i5 is a waste of money in a school except in specific circumstances (e.g. photography, media). They cost so much, and PowerPoint and IE are barely going to register on those chips :/

 

Think it depends how many you're replacing as well, we're looking to do a bulk this year under a lease and i3 to i5 costs are so small it seems dumb not to use them (laptops aside)

 

Steve

[Jawloms]

Got any kit to trade in? If so, then the HP trade in scheme is well worth a look. I used it. Spent £25k instead of the budgeted £20k on 50 laptops. Traded in 36 laptops and 14 desktops and got £7.6k back therefore came in £2.6k under budget and had a very happy business manager, and didn't have to faff about disposing of the old kit at another time.

[sonofsanta]

For some schools its helpful to go with i5 or i7s if possible. For example we are unable to provide a upgrade to everything for many years, hell most the school i work at are all on Dual core duos! Plus going for cheap i5 2500ks, and overclocking them will make sure they are worth while for a good term.

 

its all about that ratio, if you can afford every so many years, go with something lower, i3 and upgrade every so often. If you can only do it so many more x2 then go with something more powerhouse and make it last that length of time.

 

Its all about planning and making most of that investment in your tools and getting the most out of them.

 

We only just replaced some Core2Duos and honestly, once they were upgraded to SSD + 4GB RAM, you couldn't tell the difference between them and newer i3s. I only changed them because they were seven years old and I couldn't bank on their reliability anymore.

 

If you're concerned with running things for a long time, then I'm not sure overclocking as a matter of course is necessarily the safest route to take in that regard :/

 

The only difference between the i3 and i5 is the 2C/4T nature of the i3 vs. true quad core for the i5. The i5 can boost its frequency--but often to where the i3 sits anyway (e.g. i5-6500 boosts to 3.6GHz, i3-6100 is 3.7GHz anyway). So given how single threaded most desktop software is, it doesn't make a difference to 95% of what's used by staff, and I can't see Office suddenly becoming multi-threaded and giving the i5s a longevity boost over the i3s.

 

Apart from the Photography/Video room, I only ever go for i3 here as tops, and we have a 5 year replacement plan in place (though it's more like 7 at the moment). A good SSD would make a bigger difference IMHO.

 

My tuppence, anyway!

 

I'd also ask why you say "reputable vendors like HP/Lenovo", because I've always had better support from Novatech & Stone than I have from the big multinationals, along with better pricing and better spec. Nowt wrong with the reputation of any supplier here on the 'geek and believe me, we like to moan hereabouts!

[Lonix]

Lenovo do some nice small form factors, I call them mini factors because they make small PCs look huge.

 

Non branded, RedCat PCs come across a very nice prices well under £300 and if you fight hard enough around £250. Will cost a little more for i5s if that's what you want. The i3s we have are still running like brand new and zero performance issues.

 

We stick to i3s outside of Film and yeah as mentioned, no performance issues but all preferences.

[Xellpnz]

We only just replaced some Core2Duos and honestly, once they were upgraded to SSD + 4GB RAM, you couldn't tell the difference between them and newer i3s. I only changed them because they were seven years old and I couldn't bank on their reliability anymore.

 

If you're concerned with running things for a long time, then I'm not sure overclocking as a matter of course is necessarily the safest route to take in that regard :/

 

The only difference between the i3 and i5 is the 2C/4T nature of the i3 vs. true quad core for the i5. The i5 can boost its frequency--but often to where the i3 sits anyway (e.g. i5-6500 boosts to 3.6GHz, i3-6100 is 3.7GHz anyway). So given how single threaded most desktop software is, it doesn't make a difference to 95% of what's used by staff, and I can't see Office suddenly becoming multi-threaded and giving the i5s a longevity boost over the i3s.

 

Apart from the Photography/Video room, I only ever go for i3 here as tops, and we have a 5 year replacement plan in place (though it's more like 7 at the moment). A good SSD would make a bigger difference IMHO.

 

My tuppence, anyway!

 

I'd also ask why you say "reputable vendors like HP/Lenovo", because I've always had better support from Novatech & Stone than I have from the big multinationals, along with better pricing and better spec. Nowt wrong with the reputation of any supplier here on the 'geek and believe me, we like to moan hereabouts!

 

Admitted, general use "now" will be very slim on the difference. But with programs ever so changing, and with OS's becoming more of a hungry horse, feels safe being more future proof with the extra power behind the steering wheel. For office related software, single core duty's is fine. But what about Photoshop and alike, that are ram and multi-threaded developed to keep them lag and effective? Its having that mix is what i like personally and keeps me feeling safe i can hold my head above the water for longer.

I still feel a i3 is a small investment (2/3yr) if pushed compared to a (4/5) over a i5 for a little more on price. *even more so with k series and 8gb fast ram*

 

And my overclocked i52500k has been stable for the past 5ish years. Processors now days are perfectly fine with a small jump, as long as they are a K series.

 

But i presume if you only have a small amount of students ever doing high usages, and the curriculum does not change that much over next say 5 years should be golden. And aye SSD's help so much! need some m2 ssd love!

 

I guess its down to preference of how we feel safe with our components. I always plan for the longer road and make sure i got more spare tires than i need *just* in case, as for the extra price, does not hurt at all.

[Bobby_Moore]

Hey all,

 

Thanks for your comments. On the whole, it does seem like there is not any 'revolutionary' new units that are making extensive savings but methods/practices to obtain it (refurbs, trades-in etc).

 

For us, we want these units to last in the region of 7/8 years. If we can get the unit cheaper by buying standard SATA and 4GB, we can easily upgrade those components later to reduce the outlay, where as the processor is a bit more restrictive/expensive. Problem is that no replacement plan has been put in place and we are trying to catch up.

@sonofsanta - I totally agree about the i3 comment but my thought was there is minimal cost difference and we have quite a long duration we want them to last

@Xellpnz - We did quite an extensive data capture (Lakeside software) to form a review of our base requirements across site. Currently, 95% only require 4GB of RAM but as I've stated, easily upgraded at a later date.

 

Thanks again all,

Bobby

[sonofsanta]

But with programs ever so changing, and with OS's becoming more of a hungry horse, feels safe being more future proof with the extra power behind the steering wheel.

 

I dunno about the OS bit Windows hardware specs going up for the first time since 2009 | Ars Technica -- 1GHz, 2GB RAM, 20GB storage. Though I wouldn't be surprised to find some school kit failing to meet that, I'd hope anything new would be fine!

 

For office related software, single core duty's is fine. But what about Photoshop and alike, that are ram and multi-threaded developed to keep them lag and effective? Its having that mix is what i like personally and keeps me feeling safe i can hold my head above the water for longer.

 

For rooms where Photoshop is used more regularly, we've got the i5s. But whilst Photoshop etc. is installed everywhere, it's probably never opened on most machines, and if it even is you're talking differences of seconds when running through a barrage of filters--so over an hour's usage, you'll probably save no more than a minute on a pricy i5. As much as teaching staff may disagree, I don't think their time is that valuable (I also think RAM makes more difference than the CPU to most of what Photoshop does e.g. in handling large files).

 

I still feel a i3 is a small investment (2/3yr) if pushed compared to a (4/5) over a i5 for a little more on price. *even more so with k series and 8gb fast ram*

 

And my overclocked i52500k has been stable for the past 5ish years. Processors now days are perfectly fine with a small jump, as long as they are a K series.

 

K series i5s are even more money spent--the i5-6600k is literally twice the cost of an i3-6100 (£200 v £100 inc VAT), and it's not twice as good for a school's use case IMHO. By the time VAT and bid pricing is taken into account, you're probably talking £50-60 minimum price bump--the equivalent of getting a 7th PC free for every 6 you buy. I'd rather replace 140 with i3s than 120 with i5s, personally, or save the ~£7,000.

 

Your K processor at home--is that on a decent motherboard, with proper caps and good VRM cooling? That stuff all gets stressed, and it's an easy corner to cut on a cheap motherboard to keep prices down. And you need a mroe expensive Z170 chipset to overclock as well--and at a quick glance, the cheapest Z170 on eBuyer is £90 inc VAT to the cheapest H110's £45, so it all starts to add up.

 

But i presume if you only have a small amount of students ever doing high usages, and the curriculum does not change that much over next say 5 years should be golden. And aye SSD's help so much! need some m2 ssd love!

 

I guess its down to preference of how we feel safe with our components. I always plan for the longer road and make sure i got more spare tires than i need *just* in case, as for the extra price, does not hurt at all.

 

Of course, in an ideal world I would have i5s everywhere but alas, I don't live in that ideal world--I live in the world where "education funding protected in real terms" translates to a school budget that's down by a six figure sum next year. Sacrifices have to be made, and whilst an i3 obviously doesn't have all the performance of the i5, I'm happy to take 90% of it (in school usage terms) for 50% of the price.

 

In summary: I blame George Osborne for why we can't just have nice things.

[Xellpnz]

I dunno about the OS bit Windows hardware specs going up for the first time since 2009 | Ars Technica -- 1GHz, 2GB RAM, 20GB storage. Though I wouldn't be surprised to find some school kit failing to meet that, I'd hope anything new would be fine!

 

 

Well, it falls into play when 1:do you upgrade with the times 2:or keep with the old? if you ran win-10 on a 1ghz celeron, and 2gb slow 600mhz ram, your going to really have a bad time. For starters, login in be half the damn lesson!

 

For rooms where Photoshop is used more regularly, we've got the i5s. But whilst Photoshop etc. is installed everywhere, it's probably never opened on most machines, and if it even is you're talking differences of seconds when running through a barrage of filters--so over an hour's usage, you'll probably save no more than a minute on a pricy i5. As much as teaching staff may disagree, I don't think their time is that valuable (I also think RAM makes more difference than the CPU to most of what Photoshop does e.g. in handling large files).

 

I would not say a i5 is pricey at all, going with 5th and above gen sure, but that be rather silly unless you are going into gaming or alike. For a casual user 2gen if you can get one or 4th be fine, and price margin should not be to high compared. Photoshop is a CPU/RAM intensive program, mostly coded for muti-render/frames. So you would need muticore to have less of a drag on the system, plus 4 physicals are going to handle that better than 2logical/2physical. If you do some work on photoshop, over time the layers and effects do mount up. I Remember back when dual core 2 was out, i maxed my 6gb 800hz and dual core extreme to the near max on Photoshop 6, took AGES to load my work up. *did alot website making stuff. Fun hobbies =)* Then comes down to pixal count on the screens etc etc etc..... could go on.

 

 

 

K series i5s are even more money spent--the i5-6600k is literally twice the cost of an i3-6100 (£200 v £100 inc VAT), and it's not twice as good for a school's use case IMHO. By the time VAT and bid pricing is taken into account, you're probably talking £50-60 minimum price bump--the equivalent of getting a 7th PC free for every 6 you buy. I'd rather replace 140 with i3s than 120 with i5s, personally, or save the ~£7,000.

 

Your K processor at home--is that on a decent motherboard, with proper caps and good VRM cooling? That stuff all gets stressed, and it's an easy corner to cut on a cheap motherboard to keep prices down. And you need a mroe expensive Z170 chipset to overclock as well--and at a quick glance, the cheapest Z170 on eBuyer is £90 inc VAT to the cheapest H110's £45, so it all starts to add up.

 

Agreed, 6th gen stuff is ridiculous on pricing on K series, due noted its more aimed at gamers. IF you had to go with a 6th gen, then comes down to end user ultimately due to price difference between a 6100 vs a 6500 (100 vs 145) But again since most programs going muticored, might be worth the investment, but again my view on that, but for next few years, would hardly notice much of a difference.

 

And i own two 2500ks! love them so much, that im getting another one as a linux server. Ones on a 50quid board, running at 4.2ghz over its 3.32ghz clock. overclocking is not as bad as it used to be, Companies expect it when going for series of chips that an gamer aims for. (6 being one of them) So you can push your systems and they will last just as long. Admitted, tried doing that on a dual core duo........ *cries* bad memory's. But i overclock most of my gear, and i have around 7 Gaming desktops at home, and 2 servers with near top spec. no deaths yet! One of them is my old boy running with a Core 2 Extreme QX9770, 3.8ghz to 4.5ghz. And hes old!!! and i think his board was around 70ish pounds at the time.

 

and yes i have a life..... please believe me!

 

 

Of course, in an ideal world I would have i5s everywhere but alas, I don't live in that ideal world--I live in the world where "education funding protected in real terms" translates to a school budget that's down by a six figure sum next year. Sacrifices have to be made, and whilst an i3 obviously doesn't have all the performance of the i5, I'm happy to take 90% of it (in school usage terms) for 50% of the price.

 

In summary: I blame George Osborne for why we can't just have nice things.

 

OH no i do agree that budgets are a pain, but i think if you can squeeze those extra pounds, and weights into a investment, might help out in a few years than now. Always see PC's as a cash investment, how much can i pay now, to get back. if i can make it work effectively, over 5 years than 4, that extra year might of saved me £50 per, or more for CPU alone. But i do understand the frustration, just so many variables now days, let alone keeping upto date with whats best to use, and how to use them in so many situations!

 

And i blame most of the government for why things suck..... tax dodging *bleeps*

Edited May 24, 2016 by Xellpnz

[Xellpnz]

Hey all,

 

Thanks for your comments. On the whole, it does seem like there is not any 'revolutionary' new units that are making extensive savings but methods/practices to obtain it (refurbs, trades-in etc).

Intel/AMD both got VERY nice chips coming this year if you can wait, will be a huge step up from what we have.

 

For us, we want these units to last in the region of 7/8 years. If we can get the unit cheaper by buying standard SATA and 4GB, we can easily upgrade those components later to reduce the outlay, where as the processor is a bit more restrictive/expensive. Problem is that no replacement plan has been put in place and we are trying to catch up.

@sonofsanta - I totally agree about the i3 comment but my thought was there is minimal cost difference and we have quite a long duration we want them to last

@Xellpnz - We did quite an extensive data capture (Lakeside software) to form a review of our base requirements across site. Currently, 95% only require 4GB of RAM but as I've stated, easily upgraded at a later date.

 

Thanks again all,

Bobby

 

Well depends on what ram you are looking at, as same make ram for 8gb sometimes only £10/20 More each depending. Issue is going with a said big company like Dell/HP/Lenovo they tend to use OEM model parts or budget parts which is great, but tend to pay more for. Just be careful what your buying compared to somewhere else.

[fiza]

We got Iiyama 22" monitors and basic Logitech keyboard/mice from Insight UK, and some Intel NUCs (upgraded to 120GB SSDs) from @VeryPC; which I am very pleased with. Got 3 year warranties on them too. I think total cost per PC & peripherals ended up at about £300ish?

 

Deployed them last week and the performance for these little machines under Win10 is as expected, fantastic. Also Windows 10 seems to have literally all the necessary drivers built in already, that made imaging with SCCM even easier!

 

I don't know what you guys are putting on your machines, but I think you're all severely overestimating the power you need (although I'm a big fan of the NUCs, you can get them up to i7 and 16GB RAM I believe).

 

@Blue_Cookeh How do the NUCs cope with something like SIMS?

[NB9457]

We just bought a load of HP Desktops and screens in;

-SFF

-Latest Gen i5

-4GB DDR4

-120GB SSD

-23'' 1080P Display

-Win10 COA

 

Only £360(exVAT) per unit, made up with them