Frazer Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 How about a forum/subforum dedicated to this pathetic piece of software while the pilot runs? Dont know how many of you have started on this - just going through the registration process myself (initial server install).
SteveT Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 ........it`s taken me two weeks to realise that I have to use IE for the Technical Audit rather than Firefox.......previously all attempts to complete...even when pop-ups etc allowed......failed!!!! Doesn`t auger well!!! Teachers don`t seem too keen on taking part in pilot but SMT are pushing. Oh well.....
Jake Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 We have completed our pilot tests, and are awaiting the SMT decision on it
CyberNerd Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 We piloted it and failed - the clients don't even come close to the specifications, RM don't suppy info on how to do it on Citrix / TS and it doesn't run on linux/mac. I don't see why they can't do this all through a web-server ?!? - not like their actually going to re-write this rubbish so schools can use it.
webman Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 If enough people badger them for a cross-platform version I'm sure they'd have to give in eventually
Guest richard Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Just about to do my initial install next week
russdev Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 cross platorm is on way mac version in trails... web interface - not going to work due to nature of test it is virtual enviroment would be to slow on web... as for not liking it well get used to it as gcse will start being used for it as well... To be honest people need to be involved in it as it is going to happen so you might as well get it right now before results are published... also good indicator of if teaching levels are right and ks3 course content is right... russ
CyberNerd Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I'm the KS3 test have the potential to be a fantastic teaching resource. I just don't trust RM do do anything properly, especially when cross-platform is concerned. Cross platform is something they should have though of before they began the trials - not as an afterthought. RM's record on this is pretty sketchy - I can't even update RM's web-filter without IE on windows.
webman Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 And RM's management console only works in IE. And Easylink requires IE. So does the learning resources area. 8O
RoyG Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Suggestion - move this thread to FFS!!! Hadn't taken a lot of notice until the Head of ICT mentioned that the school has received "requests" to participate in the Pilot. Apparently so far the Deputy with responsibility for ICT has fended off these requests, but I thought I'd better take a look. Forgetting for a moment the technical issues (as I'm sure many of you would want to do!) the only thing the results of such tests will show is how much time schools waste in training the kids to use a pathetic bit of software. To describe it as donkey-crap is seriously unfair - to donkey-crap. Most of our kids will have lost the will to live in the first 5 minutes of the test. Pointless exercise or what! Then - are the DFES & RM seriously suggesting they can make the thing work on the huge variety of systems in use in the country's secondary schools - I'm pretty sure I'll have retired before they make a Netware-compatible version!! No doubt RM will suggest that we migrate to CC3! Yeah, right! Let's just hope that this farce goes the same way as various national mega-IT schemes - i.e. binned! RoyG
GrumbleDook Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 @RoyG: Nope ... this one is here to stay, and it will probably be expanded to include other subjects too. There is an NDA attached to the pilot which RM/QCA have not decided to enforce yet this year ... but they have in the past. The test itself is not too bad ... most students I have seen in other schools struggle because it "'snot like what we are used to!" and so they hate it ... At this point we can moan about teachers not making sure students have transferable skills so that the students are able to adapt, or we just accept that RM/QCA could not make it an exact mirror of M$ Office due to legal reasons and be happy that they haven't either .... Then we whinge about it not working on anything other than CC3 or plain vanilla 2K3 domains ... get into a sulk for those using Macs / Linux / thin client / Citrix ... and then accept that we have to make it work and that the most we can do is see how bad it is and try and give feedback to RM/QCA so that they actually change things so it actually works. I am having a serious feeling of Deja Vu from last year at this point and point out that it *is* getting better ... that there are schools doing alpha testing for Mac, etc ... and just hope that we can get it sorted in time for the compulsory testing in 2009 (presuming it suffers from "wembley" syndrome and runs late!)
beeswax Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Then - are the DFES & RM seriously suggesting they can make the thing work on the huge variety of systems in use in the country's secondary schools - I'm pretty sure I'll have retired before they make a Netware-compatible version!! No doubt RM will suggest that we migrate to CC3! Yeah, right! RoyG I think my cold is getting to me. I've suddenly had this vision of RM and QCA approaching the government saying, "How can you expect to run these tests successfully across the country when there are so many different Operating Systems running on 101 varieties of hardware? Minister, might we suggest you make your excellent BSF scheme compulsory? There are several very experienced companies ready and willing to step in to the breach at a moments notice." to paraphrase someone, "If you should find yourself in a field with the sun on your back, then you have reached Elysium, minister, having moved from a poorly paid job in Whitehall to one in the private sector with a seven figure pension." beeswax, or am I really ill?
russdev Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 lol always knew those people at dfes were on something russ
u8dmtm Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 No seriously, it does work really well - even on <1Ghz Celeron 256mb machines - thats CC3 based machines or workgroup laptops. I was worried when I first heard about it but the biggest challenge associated with it is the teaching and learning ones.
GrumbleDook Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Yep ... gotta agree with you here ... that is why it is important to make sure that it is up and ready in time for the teachers to get the students trying the sample tests and seeing how far they can push it.
RoyG Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 @RoyG: Nope ... this one is here to stay, and it will probably be expanded to include other subjects too. God help us! As someone who'se spent the last 30 odd years persuading kids to have some sort of individuality, creativity & imagination, rather than being able to jump through pointless hoops - I can only say, if you're right, the future's more depressing than I could imagine! There is an NDA attached to the pilot which RM/QCA have not decided to enforce yet this year ... but they have in the past. What the f***'s an NDA? The test itself is not too bad ... most students I have seen in other schools struggle because it "'snot like what we are used to!" and so they hate it ... Not the point - there will be schools where they'll train kids on this piece of cr*p, who'll get better results, and those who'll not bother wasting the kids' time, who may get worse results. I can only hope there will be a significant number in the latter category, who'll carry on trying to give the kids a more meaningful IT experience. At this point we can moan about teachers not making sure students have transferable skills so that the students are able to adapt, or we just accept that RM/QCA could not make it an exact mirror of M$ Office due to legal reasons and be happy that they haven't either .... Most kids will be able to "transfer skills" - they seem to cope pretty well with the latest generation of mobile phones, mp3 players, PSPs etc. etc. - but why test them on this in such a prescriptive, pointless exercise? Then we whinge about it not working on anything other than CC3 or plain vanilla 2K3 domains ... get into a sulk for those using Macs / Linux / thin client / Citrix ... and then accept that we have to make it work and that the most we can do is see how bad it is and try and give feedback to RM/QCA so that they actually change things so it actually works. Who's whinging??!! The longer they take to make this cr*p work on my Netware system, the better!! I shan't be busting a gut to solve their problems! I am having a serious feeling of Deja Vu from last year at this point and point out that it *is* getting better ... that there are schools doing alpha testing for Mac, etc ... and just hope that we can get it sorted in time for the compulsory testing in 2009 (presuming it suffers from "wembley" syndrome and runs late. 1. I shan't be volunteering for the Netware alpha test! 2. 2009 is after my retirement date! Hallelujah! 3. Odds on for the "Wembley syndrome" methinks! Rant over! RoyG
SteveT Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Remember: If you have to change the IP address range you must include localhost in the new list!!!! Took me ages before I realised I`d not done so which was why I couldn`t log on to the APS anymore. Apart from my stupidity though, it seems to work quite well but I have to admit it hasn`t been stressed yet.........lets see what happens when a whole room full of kids tries to mis-use it at the same time. BTW Do you have to have a pilots licence to use the FlightDeck?? Can I persuade SMT that they should purchase a good FlightSim for training purposes? Is it time for my medication already?
TechMonkey Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 We had a big talk about this at county level with all the Network techs and in the end the advice was for everyone to please take part and go as far as possible, even if we failed and we knew we would fail. That way the statistics would show there was a problem. If only those that can run it enter and a few failed then the result will be that 95% were succesful so hurrah lets plough on regardless. But if everyone tries and it shows all those that can't then the result will be much more meaningful. The other problem with holding back is that the teachers won't be prepared, the kids will be unprepared so you are in effect causing the bad results. Which even if you have retired sin't a nice legacy to leave. NDA = non disclosure agreement
RoyG Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 The other problem with holding back is that the teachers won't be prepared, the kids will be unprepared so you are in effect causing the bad results. Which even if you have retired sin't a nice legacy to leave. My main point is that the results of a test like this are meaningless. The only reason anyone will be interested in the results is the effect it might have on the school's League Table & Value-Added scores - as a measure of kids real ability in ICT it's pretty much a waste of time for all concerned and a waste of millions of tax-payers' money!) RoyG
broc Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 All of the key stage testing is for the benefit of schools, LEA, and Government, not the students. My issues with the online test is the same as any other KS test; valuable teaching time has to be devoted to learning how to pass the tests instead of learning the subject. Kids who cannot master the test desktop environment will never realise their true ICT KS3 potential. However, there is still hope; I heard an amusing story regarding KS3 tests (not ICT) recently. A teacher was urging the students in his class to work hard and prepare for the tests, until one student chirped up "These tests are for your benefit not ours. If we screw up the tests, so what? Except you get into trouble..... so be nice to us or else..." Brian
GrumbleDook Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 oh how I wish the above was true ... The sets that students go into for taking KS4 exams depends on their teacher's ability to ascertain their ability. This used to be done by end of year test and guesswork ... now schools have the KS3 results to fall back on and if a student buggers it all up it means they may be in a lower set and not reach their maximum grade in their KS4 exams, and in some case they might be dropped from a subject altoghter, reducing their prospects later on in life. Making sure the students understand this for any of the KS3 NC testing is important ... I know that one test should not make all the difference, but we all know schools that will turn round and say under their breath, "the stupid idiot shouldn't have buggered about then ... tough luck", and a number of employers would say "spot on" to this, because they don't want someone working for them who will intentionally sabatoge things just to force their own way ... If we had that then the unions would do it all the time ... erm ... I'll get my coat.
broc Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 I have spoken to a lot of teachers over the years, & most of them know how well students are doing without relying upon Sats. They do however get very frustrated at how much time they have to devote to making sure that their Sats results look good, so much so that they end up 'tailoring' their lesson content to fit. Even Ofsted recently remarked that schools were worrying too much about their league table position and some schools were 'even' tailoring their curriculum to assist in maintaining/improving their league table position! Subject leaders I have spoken to will often admit their concerns about the quality of data & the level of coaching that goes on; for example I know of one primary school where KS2 science results showed all their students were significantly above average. By the time they had sat KS3 science half of them were below average. Now, is that the secondary school science dept 'failing' the kids, or were they particularly well coached at KS2? I wonder, how many schools will use the online ICT KS3 data to determine setting entry to KS4?
OverWorked Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 Yesterday I installed the APS no problem. Logged on to the APS website and sent the registration. Logged on again this morning to check it, still waiting (no problem as it was less than 12 hours since sending). Tried again a couple of hours later. I got something like "there's a problem with the CPS server". Tried again at lunchtime - logged on OK, still waiting. Just tried again (almost 24 hours since sending) and got "Error: Your School Registration Information is corrupted. " This does not look good! :x EDIT: Found the answer in the RM support page. Give tomcat write permission to the drive root.
webman Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 @OverWorked: You're at about the same state we're at, APS and nothing else yet
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