Jamo Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 "docker run" works on windows too and scales infinitely in Google Cloud. Docker currently runs in a linux VM on windows though - you are still using linux just that you don't know it... My opinion, is that the MS model of licencing hell has just got out of hand. Now there are so many clauses, like the VDI licencing, VDA licences, remote working exclusions, it requires a person dedicated to keep up with the licencing. MS Office is hidiously overpriced as well.
snagrat Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Docker currently runs in a linux VM on windows though - you are still using linux just that you don't know it... My opinion, is that the MS model of licencing hell has just got out of hand. Now there are so many clauses, like the VDI licencing, VDA licences, remote working exclusions, it requires a person dedicated to keep up with the licencing. MS Office is hidiously overpriced as well. Depends how you look at it. We license 600 copies of office plus have everyone the ability to download at home and it only costs £1k per year. That's around £1.50 per machine per year. Not very expensive at all!
LeMarchand Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 And this is compared to the open command prompt. Type slmgr.vbs /ipk new-key-goes-here Oh wait didn't run as admin. Close said cmd prompt. Search for cmd again in the god awful GUI, Windows searches Bing becuase you typed cdm by accident. Wait for Windows to finish doing 'its thing' whilst hammering delete. Type cmd. Search again, right click cmd, run as admin. Type the same command again, yay it works! This is compared to the linux commands which have already finished, updated the entire system (which doesn't require a reboot...) the linux admin is now sitting at home stroking his newly developed beard and feeling very happy. The Windows admin just realised Windows update has just given his machine a countdown. Time to reboot again Win+X then A opens Admin command prompt. What is this searching of which you speak? 2
CyberNerd Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Depends how you look at it. We license 600 copies of office plus have everyone the ability to download at home and it only costs £1k per year. That's around £1.50 per machine per year. Not very expensive at all! £1000 more than we pay and we have 2000 licenses (of GAFE). Plus we get to use chromebooks and linux. The same model Lenovo Yoga windows machine is £80 more expensive than the chromebook - multiply that by 2000 staff/students and windows will cost us costs us another £160,000. That doesn't even take into account the licensing costs of windows/cals or the £3k that you quoted, or even the extra manpower maintaining that sort of infrastructure. £1.50 per user per year is a terrible deal if you take into account the total cost of ownership.
Jamo Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Win+X then A opens Admin command prompt. What is this searching of which you speak? I think this is a good example of the fractured admin GUIs MS have been churning out though, granted a lot of the functionality is now in the Win+X menu, but really.... what happened to the original menu items people were used to using, the whole idea of having that menu seems to be to get around the hideous GUI that gets slapped on every new MS OS. Also come on... are you seriously suggesting that you haven't been bitten by Windows trying to search bing??????? Or been frustrated by the lack of privilege escalation from the command prompt? Want more reasons? You still can't run Windows on less than 4GB of RAM, I can still run Linux servers with 384MB RAM... The Windows bloat is also just getting worse and I can't see that changing any time soon. There are too many compelling reasons to look else where (WHERE POSSIBLE!). I'm not saying there is no place for Windows, some of the features are just brilliant (the dedup feature is amazing IMHO, and .NET) but Windows just doesn't belong everywhere in IT these days. Add to that the fact that MS are CLEARLY doing everything possible to force people into their subscription models (Software Assurance etc) Those prices are current for education yeah? Isn't this what this thread is about? Saying goodbye to those prices? Still on the bright side at least you won't have to pay commercial rates...
Arthur Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) You still can't run Windows on less than 4GB of RAM www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01272MMQI I can still run Linux servers with 384MB RAM. Nano Server only needs 512MB RAM, although in some demos the VMs have been running with just 128MB assigned. Edited May 7, 2016 by Arthur 1
Jamo Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01272MMQI Nano Server only needs 512MB RAM, although in some demos the VMs have been running with just 128MB assigned. All right then I'll rephrase. The OS is completely unusable with less than 4. Remember when xp used to run with 256mb? It was rubbish pure rubbish! I have a load of w10 compute sticks with similar hardware they are just unusable. Edited May 8, 2016 by elsiegee40
matt40k Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Must have missed the memo about ram being expensive. Pretty sure my mums 5+ year old machine has 4gb ram. Also not sure teaching a pure anything is good for education. Fine there are companies that use chromebooks or macs but most use Windows - I think the schools setup should reflect that. You should have Windows PC, macs, chromebooks, ipad, raspberry pi and so on. Windows is a pretty good as 99% of software works on it, especially now Windows 10 supports Ubuntu user mode - https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/30/run-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows/ The only thing that cant do is mac only software 1
foofighterjim Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 All right then I'll rephrase. The OS is completely unusable with less than 4. Remember when xp used to run with 256mb? It was rubbish pure rubbish! XP used to run quite happily on my old PC with 64mb of RAM. Admittedly that was back in 2002.
DavePa Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Although I am firmly in the Windows camp at the moment I would be happy to learn Linux but the way the marketshare is going it may be better to all get Macs - Windows is below 90% for the 1st time this century with Apple making the biggest gains. Linux remains at less than 2% so no matter how good it is still a niche OS. Although I would be happy to learn Linux and the associated software I cannot say the same for the other 150 FTE which naturally includes some whose expertise lies elsewhere and not in using software - people who have taken, in some cases, years to learn their way around MS Office apps. We'd also need to train (or replace) the other members of the IT team to use Linux in place of Windows - none of these are impossible but equally, none are simple changeovers either.
CyberNerd Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Although I am firmly in the Windows camp at the moment I would be happy to learn Linux but the way the marketshare is going it may be better to all get Macs - Windows is below 90% for the 1st time this century with Apple making the biggest gains. Linux remains at less than 2% so no matter how good it is still a niche OS. Linux is nowhere near a niche operating system. it runs the majority of the worlds user devices (smartphones), all of the worlds supercomputers and most of the worlds big player cloud systems (amazon,ebay,facebook,google etc etc). What linux doesn't have is much marketshare in the desktop world. Much of what the guys at MS were saying is that it is govt policy, and MS's policy to move away from old style desktop systems and use cloud apps. Clearly MS want to move desktop and phone/tablet users to their cloud to reflect how the industry is changing.
sted Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Linux is nowhere near a niche operating system. it runs the majority of the worlds user devices (smartphones), all of the worlds supercomputers and most of the worlds big player cloud systems (amazon,ebay,facebook,google etc etc). What linux doesn't have is much marketshare in the desktop world. Much of what the guys at MS were saying is that it is govt policy, and MS's policy to move away from old style desktop systems and use cloud apps. Clearly MS want to move desktop and phone/tablet users to their cloud to reflect how the industry is changing. depends how you define linux does osx count as linux for instance as isnt that based on free bsd? Yes android is linx based and so is probably most of the random crummy drvices like routers etc but you dont interact with linux you basically interact with a glorified web page.
DJ-1701 Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 does osx count as linux for instance as isnt that based on free bsd? OSX is Unix if memory serves. Register of Open Branded Products
DavePa Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Linux is nowhere near a niche operating system. it runs the majority of the worlds user devices (smartphones), all of the worlds supercomputers and most of the worlds big player cloud systems (amazon,ebay,facebook,google etc etc). What linux doesn't have is much marketshare in the desktop world. Much of what the guys at MS were saying is that it is govt policy, and MS's policy to move away from old style desktop systems and use cloud apps. Clearly MS want to move desktop and phone/tablet users to their cloud to reflect how the industry is changing. Accept your point and should have stated that the link that I posted refers to desktop OS only. As somebody who started playing with computers in the early 80's I had a long period of using computers before Windows came along - but have used it almost exclusively since then as it's been the default OS wherever I have worked. Would I prefer Linux? Quite possibly - but there has been no reason to put time into learning my way around it yet,
mavhc Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 OS X, and by extension iOS is BSD userland with Mach/BSD hybrid kernel (which caused a lot of security issues for a while), but doesn't use any non-Apple GUI. Android is similar, linux kernel and some userland, but not GNU's libc, or any non-Android GUI. The argument against switching to linux is also that of switching to Mac/Chromebook/Android, which no one is really bothered by. Everyone has already learned many more GUIs anyway, Android, iOS, Chrome, Web in general, Google Docs.
CyberNerd Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 The argument against switching to linux is also that of switching to Mac/Chromebook/Android, which no one is really bothered by. Everyone has already learned many more GUIs anyway, Android, iOS, Chrome, Web in general, Google Docs. I think the argument is about learning linux admin skills, not for end users - end users tend not to have a problem it's windows power users/admins who find it difficult because they need to access the more complicated features that are not always bundled in a gui. Anyway it shouldn't mater what OS the user is accessing as long as the apps run cloudbased, the OS should be neutral.
mavhc Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Well, that's what my project is about, making it simple. Most of the concepts are the same really, now MS is based on dhcp/dns/ldap. Will get back to it after exams
nathan Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Well, that's what my project is about, making it simple. Most of the concepts are the same really, now MS is based on dhcp/dns/ldap. Will get back to it after exams Hasn't MS always been based on dhcp/dns/ldap?
Homer Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Just throwing my 2p in, picked up an Acer Revo thing for £50, it has a Celeron and 2GB of RAM. And Windows 10 runs just fine on it, obviously it slows down if you hammer it but for general usage it's fine!
mavhc Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Hasn't MS always been based on dhcp/dns/ldap? Not always, NetBIOS over TCP/UDP was 1985, AD was 2000
2ilent8cho Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Hasn't MS always been based on dhcp/dns/ldap? I take it you have never used NT 4/3.5x or Windows 3.x ?
nathan Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) I take it you have never used NT 4/3.5x or Windows 3.x ? you take it correctly, i'm not that old! Edited May 9, 2016 by nathan
DavePa Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 you take it correctly, i'm not that old! I am! Started using Intel-based machines when DOS 3.1 was current - I think DOS 6 was the final MS version. Windows/286 and Windows/386 came along at some point as did Windows 3.0 which ran on DOS - you booted to DOS and then ran Windows from a command prompt. Windows for workgroups 3.11 added networking but was still basically a DOS GUI. At some point it became DOS running in Windows rather than Windows running in DOS - that may have been Windows 2000 which also unified the desktop and Server lines - NT3.5, NT4 used to be entirely different products from the consumer OS versions. I've possibly still got a Soundblaster modified Windows version (it came with a Soundblaster card) that offered a 320*240 display option for hardware that couldn't cope with 640*480 resolution. I've definately still got a floppy disc version of Win 3.11, the version with the extra printer drivers - 31 discs instead of about 28
CyberNerd Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Further to this; it wasn't until 1995 that MS released a native tcp/ip stack - up until then you had you use a third party one. Even with 95 I recall it wasn't a straightforward affair and there were some accusations that it was heavily based on BSD (like apple!). Unixes were mostly using tcp/ip and Novell were the big players then and used ipx/spx anyway. The file sharing (SMB/CIFS) was actually developed by IBM for OS/2 and supposed to run on NetBIOS which I assume is why MS never worried so much about tcp/ip. So it all goes to show that MS's venture into the cloud isn't something we have to be too afraid of, technology shifts all the time and if they don't follow (Google/Amazon) they will become irrelevant.
nicholab Posted May 10, 2016 Posted May 10, 2016 Has anyone moved to the cloud yet how do they backup office 365 or GAE email and documents?
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