The last version of Windows - Where do Microsoft go from here?

[flyinghaggis]

Just been mulling over the current state of the IT industry and how things have changed over the last decade. Microsoft have gone from having pretty much an all out monopoly to now being a minority player in the mobile and tablet markets squeezed out by Google and Apple's duopoly.

 

From what I can see we're increasingly heading towards a mobile first world where smartphones and tablets are the primary devices for most users with laptop/desktop devices left to fill the niches. Most of my non techie friends no longer own a desktop/laptop and a tablet/phone combo is all they really use. From what I've seen this is becoming somewhat of a trend.

 

This obviously puts Microsoft in an awkward position as their mobile phone OS is pretty much struggling to gain any traction. Likewise Windows 10, to my mind, hasn't really improved things in terms of its usability on a tablet so I don't see MS gaining any ground there over the iPad. Especially given their reliance on less power efficient and more expensive x86 hardware plus given all the issues MS has had with surface devices if they can't make a windows device work reliably there's little hope for other companies.

 

MS have stated that Windows 10 will be the "last version of Windows". I can see a future where most of the staff in our school will soon primarily use a tablet rather than a desktop or laptop. Given we're running Google Apps the only app most of them really need is a web browser so the majority could cope fine with a chromebook/chromebox which leads to the question of why go to the expense and complexity of using a Windows based PC. I'm finding staff that require more than a simple web browser are as likely to ask for a Mac as they are a Windows PC.

 

I'm starting to wonder where this leaves Microsoft in another 5 years time? I guess their only real option is to keep updating Windows whilst they continue working on their cloud based offerings like Office365 and try to build on that.

 

However Google/Apple are obviously chasing that same goal of offering cloud based platforms in the shape of Google Apps and iCloud so MS has their work cut out to keep up. Especially as once you take phones/tablets into account the majority of devices are IOS/Android so MS don't even have direct influence over most of the clients they need to offer a cloud platform for anymore.

 

So what does everyone else think Microsoft's next move is going to be?

[DJ-1701]

*Slides the jug of coffee away from you.*

 

At the moment, Desktops and Laptops are going to be around for sometime yet. Maybe less in the home, but still Businesses are going to need them for the software they currently run, and you know how long it can take to migrate away from some systems. Apart from that Desktops and Laptops are generally faster and easier to fix so have a lower Cost of Ownership. Microsoft technology such as Office still dominate, many businesses use it and this means lots of home users use it because of easy document compatibility between home and work.

 

I am sure in Microsoft will get their act together with Windows Apps, but they also need to make it more Education and Business friendly with Volume License Programs, etc. Android and iOS also have their faults, but they have been quicker off the mark which does put Microsoft at a great disadvantage, but items such as the Surface Pro can be added into our existing AD structures and access servers natively. In time they could do the same with Microsoft phones. Plus the Windows environment has more customisable options that we can control via Group Policy, either Domain wide or if needed Local with different levels of accounts. Apple seem to be growing on controllability now with their iOS devices but this is far from perfect, I am not sure about the state of Android now.

 

Anyway, Microsoft still have teeth and will be around for a while.

[mthomas08]

*Slides the jug of coffee away from you.*

 

At the moment, Desktops and Laptops are going to be around for sometime yet. Maybe less in the home, but still Businesses are going to need them for the software they currently run, and you know how long it can take to migrate away from some systems. Apart from that Desktops and Laptops are generally faster and easier to fix so have a lower Cost of Ownership. Microsoft technology such as Office still dominate, many businesses use it and this means lots of home users use it because of easy document compatibility between home and work.

 

I am sure in Microsoft will get their act together with Windows Apps, but they also need to make it more Education and Business friendly with Volume License Programs, etc. Android and iOS also have their faults, but they have been quicker off the mark which does put Microsoft at a great disadvantage, but items such as the Surface Pro can be added into our existing AD structures and access servers natively. In time they could do the same with Microsoft phones. Plus the Windows environment has more customisable options that we can control via Group Policy, either Domain wide or if needed Local with different levels of accounts. Apple seem to be growing on controllability now with their iOS devices but this is far from perfect, I am not sure about the state of Android now.

 

Anyway, Microsoft still have teeth and will be around for a while.

 

Yeah I have to completely agree.

 

I still notice Windows PCs in financial, holiday, NHS, supermarkets and pretty much nearly every single office I've stepped in to.

 

Even the younger generation still prefer a PC/Laptop with Windows and Office for productivity (my other halfs youngest sister has not long started Uni) and she's pretty much this "Younger" generation of living on a mobile phone all day. She's studying Biology or something along that line, she went out and got a Lenovo All in one PC with Windows 8.1 (upgraded to W10). I didn't even need to advise on what type of equipment, they know very little about IT but one thing she knew is keyboard/mouse, Microsoft Office and "Not a Tablet". Her School was also based on Open Source but she knew what she wanted (plus awarded as one of the best Schools in our region).

 

So it wasn't exactly like she had been a Microsoft or even older generation youth.

 

No doubt people are getting Tablets instead of having a PC at home but some people will still get them. My sister's youngest kid got an iPad for Christmas, yet she still went out and got a brand new Windows 10 Laptop to do their business/finances on with Microsoft Office. She's also very happy to sit on the Tablets and do some skiing on the internet but when it comes to productivity MS/Windows still seems the Winner.

 

As for the future of M$, I think Windows 10 is almost spot on what we want. It can go on a Tablet and a PC/Laptop, while still giving us that productivity value.

 

Although I'm no fan of Edge... I can see M$ making major cutbacks, when it finally scraps W7/W8.1 and all Internet Explorer versions plus older versions of Office. With W10/Office though I see it continuing for a very long time.

[CyberNerd]

We spotted this trend a few years ago and began planning for it by moving towards web apps. We now have pretty much all our apps web based and have saved huge amounts of money and time because we can use these mobile technologies.

The idea that windows has a lower cost of ownership is absolute rubbish and this school is living proof. There is no way on earth we could fund or support 1200 windows tablets but we can do it quite easily with chromebooks.

 

I am also sure Microsoft will get their act together, but in true MS style they will be late for the party.

[Gibson335]

I don't think MS have got it quite right since moving from v7, but as others have said I think it'll be with us in education and in the corporate world for quite a while yet.

[Gibson335]

We spotted this trend a few years ago and began planning for it by moving towards web apps. We now have pretty much all our apps web based and have saved huge amounts of money and time because we can use these mobile technologies.

The idea that windows has a lower cost of ownership is absolute rubbish and this school is living proof. There is no way on earth we could fund or support 1200 windows tablets but we can do it quite easily with chromebooks.

 

I am also sure Microsoft will get their act together, but in true MS style they will be late for the party.

 

What do you do with staff who may have to use a specific item of software that only works under Windows? Do you provide them with a laptop or provide RDP to a terminal server or similar?

[CyberNerd]

What do you do with staff who may have to use a specific item of software that only works under Windows? Do you provide them with a laptop or provide RDP to a terminal server or similar?

 

Terminal services at the moment. These are getting fewer and fewer though as web based applications get better and more available each month. SIMS is still a barrier.

It's only really the large MS partner companies (autodesk, Capita, Microsoft themselves) that are holding out and even these firms are dipping their toes in web apps. The new startup companies see the issues and the venture capital follows them.

[LincolnE]

Windows is still key in any office environment, I'd say.

Whilst things might be going towards cloud based systems, I'd say Office365 will still be the go to app for business environments.

Too much legacy stuff still runs on windows, you'd never be able to get rid of it completely (just look at the numbers still using XP, for example).

[Davit2005]

Nearly every ePOS system I've ever seen and worked on has been running on top of a Windows base OS.

 

They say the last version of Windows does that include server or are they talking about keeping server versions and then just using Web Apps/Virtualization tech on end machines???

[DJ-1701]

Too much legacy stuff still runs on windows, you'd never be able to get rid of it completely (just look at the numbers still using XP, for example).

 

Not in the next 5 - 10 years, no, but eventually, possibly, if Microsoft don't get their act together.

Right, I've got to get back to writing my program in COBOL...

[DJ-1701]

Nearly every ePOS system I've ever seen and worked on has been running on top of a Windows base OS.

 

They say the last version of Windows does that include server or are they talking about keeping server versions and then just using Web Apps/Virtualization tech on end machines???

 

I think it just means this will be the last version... there will be loads of updates though.

[Mr_Jiminy]

As a not-for-profit MSP we work and promote multiple platforms, however if I had to work with just Apple and Google, I suspect my mind would soon turn to mush.

[CyberNerd]

Nearly every ePOS system I've ever seen and worked on has been running on top of a Windows base OS.

 

I got in a taxi just last week and the driver was using an EPOS on his phone.

ePOS suppliers in schools aren't exactly at the cutting edge, it's been around for a long time now (cites a two yr old article) 7 Cloud-Based POS Systems for SMBs | Street Fight

[Davit2005]

I got in a taxi just last week and the driver was using an EPOS on his phone.

ePOS suppliers in schools aren't exactly at the cutting edge, it's been around for a long time now (cites a two yr old article) 7 Cloud-Based POS Systems for SMBs | Street Fight

 

It's not just in schools, I've seen it in Corporate, shopping and leisure facilities beneath the ePOS front end.

[CyberNerd]

It's not just in schools, I've seen it in Corporate, shopping and leisure facilities beneath the ePOS front end.

 

Perhaps there is a gap in the market then; cut out the corporate licensing costs with a custom chrome app.

[JRowley]

I think it just means this will be the last version... there will be loads of updates though.

 

The OSX model is a good example of this.

[gshaw]

The last version thing is just marketing, how many sub-releases of W10 have we had already

 

Windows 10 will eventually be a Trigger's broom scenario after a few years' worth of build updates. That's probably where the subscription model will kick in at some point, perhaps bundled up with O365 as a whole platform service as opposed to being a product in its own right.

 

As for the competition, device price is getting almost equivalent at the low end between Windows and Android, then there's the interesting next move for Google in terms of merging Chrome OS and Android (if they actually do it). Fragmented OS versions and poor vendor support is Android's biggest flaw right now, can Google claw back control somehow?

[flyinghaggis]

I suppose my thoughts on this have been driven by recent experiences in our school where we've gone 1:1 BYOD with Ipads and have moved to Google Apps for Education. So in the space of a year we literally now have more iPads than Windows PCs in the school. I get what some are saying about Windows devices being more manageable but the iPads are really being driven primarily by user demand. Simply put, people WANT to use IOS tablets in preference to Windows devices as they find them easier to use and like the fact they have more control over then when installing apps/configuring settings/etc. Us telling them to use Microsoft Surfaces (or similar) because they're more flexible and easier to manage for the organisation doesn't seem to change their opinion.

 

We certainly don't have anything like the same level of control over them as Windows devices but at least MDM software does exist. However, with more services going cloud based and less reliance on Windows servers/infrastructure the lack of AD integration or the ability to run Windows apps is less of an issue than it would have been a couple of years back. Plus with going to something like Google Apps it provides the option to move users across to cheaper/simpler hardware like Chromebooks/Chromeboxes. Maybe even some kind of thin client remote desktop style solution as all you really need to provide is a web browser. I'm certainly seeing lots of more viable options now available to us in place of rolling out expensive and comparatively high maintenance full-fat Windows desktops.

 

So far these changes haven't led to any decline in the number of Windows laptops/desktops on the site yet but I'm feeling like this number will soon start to drop substantially as more staff find ways to adjust. Beyond email/word processing/etc and generally light apps that are well suited to a web browser version there aren't that many departments that really require dedicated non-mobile clients in number Possibly just technology and computing really. Likewise with servers I can imagine the next time we upgrade our blades/SAN/ it'll see a substantial reduction in size as many of our services (file storage, email, etc) become cloud based.

 

Right now there may well be a lot of legacy software out there preventing people from dropping Windows entirely but I think MS really need to up their game as if nothing changes over the next couple of years I can see Windows devices dropping off the radar of most people entirely. I haven't had experience of Office365 from an admin point of view so it may be that MS's cloud based services are improving but from the client hardware side it's looking like they might not be a substantial player in a few years unless they can capture mobile/tablet market share from Google/Apple and turn their fortunes around. The way things are going with BYOD not being a major player in the consumer sector means you rapidly become irrelevant in the business/education sector as well.

 

I don't want this to come off as an anti-MS trolling. I've owned several Windows devices over the last 20 years and have spent most of that duration primarily administering MS products so I should be the ideal target market for a Windows tablet or phone to and this should be driving me towards MS's cloud services and platforms. I even had a Windows mobile 5.0 phone a decade ago but found myself being forced to move across to the competition (IOS initially and now Android) as MS continually failed to deliver on their promise to improve the Windows Mobile platform. Likewise, they still IMO don't have a compelling tablet OS. Also, I feel their reliance on generating revenue from apps like installed versions of Microsoft Office has meant they've been fearful to really move forward with cloud/browser apps and generally providing sofware as a service lest it impact revenue from their historic cash cows. Given their installed user base of Windows devices I cant help but feel there's so much more they could have done to improve things. It really feels like they've been caught sleeping at the wheel relying on long term revenue streams and are only now starting to realise those are about to dry up sharpish.

 

I think that when Microsoft say Windows 10 will be the last version they already know the writing is on the wall for Windows in it's current form as a mainstream consumer OS. I'm sure they realise a massive paradigm shift is going to be required on their part if they want to remain competitive with Google/Apple and that simply churning out iterations of Windows 10 alone isn't going to win back customers. Hopefully they can pull something out of the hat.

 

Just wanted to get down some random thoughts to see what everybody else's take was.

 

Anyway, no more coffee for me

Edited January 20, 2016 by flyinghaggis

[googlemad]

Am I the only person that dislikes tablets and finds no real use for one whatsoever? (I did try by buying myself an iPad Mini and loaning a full size iPad from our library for a while).

 

My iPhone doesn't have many apps on it but the ones it does have I use all the time - mainly just WhatsApp, train times and the web, it fits in my pocket and I can even use it to make telephone calls and send text messages maybe once or twice a year too! If I want to do anything more intense I need a PC or laptop running a full operating system.

 

We use Google Apps at work which apart from the basic email and calendar functionality I personally dislike, give me proper desktop apps and Office any day of the week!

 

I guess I went through a period back in the day where I actually enjoyed technology now I'm just sick of it and use it out of necessity rather than interest, nothing that comes out really excites me that much to be honest (good for the bank account mind!). Windows 7 actually took me a long time to 'come around' to as back then XP was a mature product and just got on with the job, and like many people I still had a very sour taste in my mouth from Windows Vista! I'm finding the same happening with Windows 10, since I never bought into the mobile concept Windows 8 was hell for me and therefore other than under the hood performance improvements in 10 I've yet to actually use any real new functionality that I wouldn't have in Windows 7!

 

Don't think I'll have much chance of becoming an e-learning manager anytime soon

[sted]

Am I the only person that dislikes tablets and finds no real use for one whatsoever? (I did try by buying myself an iPad Mini and loaning a full size iPad from our library for a while).

 

no. But i think youre missing the point. For most people at least home users their "computer use" can basically be summed up as facebook/twitter, netflix, browser, email you just dont need a laptop for that a tablet will do all that happily (id argue small screen size is an issue but it seems not to be but then im the person who has a 17" laptop) and a tablet that is never off boots effectively instantly and can be thrown round the couch. add a chromecast/chromecast audio or similar you then to a large degree cut out tv/dvd/cd etc as just fire up from the tablet throw to tv/stereo and watch. Now i have a massive issue with android in that lets say i go to a shop and grab 10 devices at random whats the chance of any interfaces looking the same, having the same default apps, having the same android version (or any sort of published update path) at least much as i hate apple as a company you get an ipad you know it will be updated for x years and have safari as default browser etc

 

phones much as i love my windows phone as it just works has a nice interface and does everything i want it to do as a phone/email box the lack of apps have doomed it to oblivion and i dont see windows 10 universal apps and easy port tools helping one iota its a lame duck if they had done the universal apps easy port thing when windows phone 7 or possibly even 8 came out then maybe it would of worked now android/ios have too much momentum behind them for ms to ever catch up (unless there is another sudden device switch lets say everyone suddenly decides they need ar and hololense is the first decent option

 

I just dont see a future long term for ms in their current guise pcs will become more and more niche granted there are jobs that currently are better on a full pc but its not impossible that if you add a keyboard to a tablet you could run word on android as an app and have it do everything the desktop version does.

 

It really does look like we are heading back to the mainframe-dumb terminal idea with google/apple/ms having the worlds processing/storage and end users just having devices that do what they are told basically

[JoeBloggs]

Working in the private sector, I can't see business moving away from Windows any time soon at all, or moving to tablets.

 

Our main application our staff use is based on Windows so we are tied, but then it integrates with MS Office so again we are tied.

 

Another application only uses IE (Don't ask me why).

 

Our finance dept use Sage.

 

We relay on too many Windows based systems. Also I can't see our finance dept using a tablet all day, nor our mortgage advisers scanning documents like wage slips and bank statements to a tablet and inputting loads of mortgage applications on a tablet. They'll be using their laptops for some time yet!

[CyberNerd]

Working in the private sector, I can't see business moving away from Windows any time soon at all, or moving to tablets.

 

Our main application our staff use is based on Windows so we are tied, but then it integrates with MS Office so again we are tied.

 

Another application only uses IE (Don't ask me why).

 

Our finance dept use Sage.

 

We relay on too many Windows based systems. Also I can't see our finance dept using a tablet all day, nor our mortgage advisers scanning documents like wage slips and bank statements to a tablet and inputting loads of mortgage applications on a tablet. They'll be using their laptops for some time yet!

 

These historic applications will be replaced in time. Old fashioned companies/developers will realise they open up their products to a wider audience by making them platform independent. The service industry will force it. If a web based product has a fraction of the total cost of ownership over a traditional programme you have a competitive edge. The company that uses the traditional programme will become uncompetitive as their support costs rise.

 

Also, with regards to tablets - Sme Chromebooks are combined tablets and Laptops - best of both worlds, with a proper management system. The hardware, software and support costs are a fraction of Windows. It's a "rolling " operating system so I don't have to reskill on every release. I think (hope) this is what MS are aiming for with win10. Pitty they didn't do it 5 yrs ago when Google did.

Edited January 21, 2016 by CyberNerd

[JoeBloggs]

We're not using historic applications, we are using the market leading software in our industry which win a lot of awards for their software.

 

I also like to host our own data and we've invested heavily in our own infrastructure. And we know we have total control over our data and know it is secure.

[Duranis]

I'm not 100% convinced that the people that exclusively use smartphones/tablets and don't buy a PC now are that much of a market loss for PC and OS providers. A lot of these people (in my experience) are ones that would not have invested much on computers to begin with. At most a lot of them would have bought a desktop or a laptop and run it until it broke (6+ years at least) so where not exactly added much to the market in the first place.

 

I worked in the mobile tech industry for quite awhile, starting when UIQ and then Symbian 30 was the newest hotness right up until fairly recently with iOS and Android (I also was there for the best parts of Blackberrys existence and was sad to see them left behind as they were the BEST tech company to work with). Even with the latest tablets and cloud app's they are still no good by themselves for any heavy workload. At a minimum you need a mouse and keyboard and even then you are entirely tied to whatever app's or cloud services are available to that device.

 

PC's still have the advantage of being able to use all them cloud app's but also having a massive selection of software which is already firmly entrenched in business and industry.

 

Honestly in my opinion Android and iOS are still "mostly" consumer gadgets and have no place as a "primary" device in the work place. Yes there are some occupations which can perform all the tech side of their job via an online portal but the majority can't.

 

The other issue with cloud services is that you are then basing your software infrastructure on something you have zero control over. If that company goes bust tomorrow then your primary software application is gone, If they do an update that breaks how you use it then you are stuck with it, etc. If you own the software then it doesn't matter what happens to the company that made it. If there is an update that breaks how you want to use it you have the option (sometimes) of just not doing the update. Yes, depending on what the software is this may mean that you get problems such as updates no longer being developed for it or that you cant apply security updates because it will break something else but at least you have options.

 

Also if all your data and app's are cloud based what happens when your internet goes down?

 

I don't see any time in the near future were they can realistically fill all the requirements that a PC/Windows can. However Android/iOS/Chrome and mobile devices/cloud apps being used as a supplement to standard stuff can be extremely useful, I just wouldn't want it as my only option.

[flyinghaggis]

I recall a recent incident which I think highlights Windows primary problem and this is one that we'll all be familiar with in IT. Last week a teacher walked into our office with her personal laptop .....you know where this is going. She'd recently been delivered the Windows 10 update and it has stopped her laptop from booting [blue screen/crash/etc]. She said she'd taken it to PC world and they re-installed Windows 10 to get it working at a cost of £80. However somehow it crashed again after another Windows update the following week with a similar issue. So she took it back to PC World again and they refused to look at it again unless they paid her a further £80 for the update and another £50 on top of that for testing/backup/etc. She asked if "we knew anybody" that could fix Windows laptops. Now I've been burned by offering to look at peoples home computers before and know where that leads so everybody in the office said they didn't know anyone and she went on her way.

 

Now I'm sitting here in 2016 thinking "1995 called and it wants it's fault back!". This to me is the reason Windows is unsuitable for widespread BYOD deployments. We can manage thousands of IOS devices without too much issue and likewise I'm sure we could just as easily roll-out Chromebooks and Android tablets with nearly as little overhead. I can't help but feel if we tried to support several thousand Windows pupil-owned devices like Surfaces that the administrative overhead of dealing with hardware faults, software issues/bugs, compatibility problems and malware/viruses would rapidly bury us.

 

That's what I'm personally looking for MS to improve on. Right now their competitors are simply doing a better job on delivering stable, cheaper, reliable lower maintenance devices than MS is currently able to. They may not be quite as fully featured just now but IOS/Android are improving rapidly with a new versions/features on at least a yearly basis.

 

Windows on the other hand hasn't really moved on since Windows 7 IMO. Right now we're currently discussing moving to Windows 10 from 7 and there aren't really many compelling reasons to move. Heck, If I had to put together a business case as to why the school needed to move to a new OS the only reason I can think of right now is "because MS are going to drop support for it and we're being forced to". What I really want to be able to say is we should move because of all these amazing improved features that will improve productivity , reduce overheads, yada, yada but right now I can't because it simply won't !

 

Honestly, moving to the cloud isn't as much of an issue as some make out. I've heard the same old arguments and they can all be worked around :-

 

"We want to keep control of our data and store it onsite"

Why? Google/MS can provide guaranteed internet connectivity 24/7 to their hosted services and can provide 99% up round the clock. As a small IT team we can't provide that level of cover even if we had staff on call and 24/7, 1-hour response on all our hardware plus our internet provider would never be able to provide the bandwidth MS/Google can! Not to mention the pricing. Google give you unlimited free storage for school and I believe MS are the same. It makes accessing the systems from home and phone/tablet apps much easier as well.

 

"What if our internet connection goes down"

Buy a second internet connection from a different provider run a different route into the school site and configure it for load balance or failover and you can be pretty sure that it wont. If your internet connection goes down these days it increasingly means the business is down regardless of the servers onsite so best to make sure it doesn't happen in the first place than worrying about providing the contingency of onsite servers.

 

Going slightly OT with the cloud sales pitch I seem to be doing but I guess it's still somewhat relevant in the context of what Microsoft are likely planning on moving towards in future!

Edited January 21, 2016 by flyinghaggis