Radio Comms for a School

[soveryapt]

Afternoon all

 

One of my schools is looking into radios for key staff members and duties in the school. They were looking to just get some without a license (you know the sort, 8 channels 36 sub groups etc) but I've pointed out from what they're wanting to possibly use them for, there could be some security implications in the fact that any Tom Dick or Harry could listen or even join in with the conversation by buying a similar radio, so they'd be better looking at a licensed approach where they get specific frequencies for the school.

 

Anyway, I've now landed myself with a bit of a "find out what others do" role and investigate the options, so, what do you guys (if anything) do with regards to cross site radio comms. The other thing I'm thinking about suggesting is WiFi VOIP of some description.

 

Look forward to hearing back different things you guys do!

Andy

[Oaktech]

We use standard unlicensed radios, but there is a protocol - There are codes for the type of incident, children are referred to by their initials and the staff have handles - like the CB era!

[NB9457]

I'd probably stay away from WiFi/VoIP as in an emrgency situation (fire and the WiFi is gone) or just outside of the school grounds, they wouldn't be much use.

 

Getting licensed ones again is probably a must, some confidential information could be transmitted and you don't want everyone to hear that.

 

We used to use Motorola radios, seemed spot on and good battery life.

[soveryapt]

We use standard unlicensed radios, but there is a protocol - There are codes for the type of incident, children are referred to by their initials and the staff have handles - like the CB era!

 

This is an option, but I know the staff here .. lol ..

 

I'd probably stay away from WiFi/VoIP as in an emrgency situation (fire and the WiFi is gone) or just outside of the school grounds, they wouldn't be much use.

 

Getting licensed ones again is probably a must, some confidential information could be transmitted and you don't want everyone to hear that.

 

We used to use Motorola radios, seemed spot on and good battery life.

 

Yeah, I suggested Motorola, I hire them in for events and such so well aware how well they work. And good point with the WiFi (I was thinking day to day, but yes, in the case of fire, bang, it's gone - I might suggest they do a combination so that they can put calls through to the head if she's out and about etc though).

[Geoff]

Zello on phones.

[bossman]

@soveryapt

 

We use this company and the Motorola ones, we have been using them for years, they seem to fit the bill very well,

 

a little on the expensive side but very good quality and they do last so money well spent.

[Oaktech]

This is an option, but I know the staff here .. lol ..

 

I was asked to look into it, but at over £200 per radio for a good encrypted system plus the difficulties in set up and applying for licenses it was just easier to enforce the protocol by beatings!

[soveryapt]

I was asked to look into it, but at over £200 per radio for a good encrypted system plus the difficulties in set up and applying for licenses it was just easier to enforce the protocol by beatings!

 

Beating staff, I could do that .. lol ..

[soveryapt]

Zello on phones.

 

Another good option, but again, I guess worst case scenario, the radios are a better fit.

[Oaktech]

@soveryapt

 

We use this company and the Motorola ones, we have been using them for years, they seem to fit the bill very well,

 

a little on the expensive side but very good quality and they do last so money well spent.

 

Which Motorola are you using?

 

None of them seem to say they are secure/encrypted?

[AJWhite1970]

We have 10 Motorola T5422's on-site held by key members of staff (Site team, HM, Reception, First Aider, Duty Head, kitchen, me..) Sadly now discontinued so if we broke a couple we'd have to look for compatibles. Our site manager also carries a radio provided by the city watch so he can call for local help in an emergency.

 

We also have a few protocols for our in house use, no using student names, no swearing, no using in an exam hall

We haven't considered using CB handles for calling, I could think of a few suitable names but that would then contravene the no swearing rule...

[matt40k]

I was asked to look into it, but at over £200 per radio for a good encrypted system plus the difficulties in set up and applying for licenses it was just easier to enforce the protocol by beatings!

 

What's wrong with (work) mobile phones?

[soveryapt]

Which Motorola are you using?

 

None of them seem to say they are secure/encrypted?

 

I'd say that with any radio there still needs to be protocol, just with the licensed options there is less likelihood of you being listened in to or interfered with.

[Oaktech]

What's wrong with (work) mobile phones?

 

We have a blanket 'no mobile phones in front of kids' policy. This comes from our LEA.

 

It may be about to change, but at the moment, those are the rules.

[localzuk]

We run Entel HX400 series licensed radios. We switched to them after finding other firms using the frequencies we used when we had the free ones, and when we found pupils were bringing in their own license free ones and making stupid noises over them.

 

Licensed radios also have a much better range and handle our old buildings much better. We can use them pretty much covering our entire town too.

[jinnantonnixx]

Retevis H777 radios are clones of popular big-brand radios. The need a radio site licence to operate lawfully. You can programme the 16 channels to frequencies between 400 to 470Mhz so they can be outside the frequency range of licence-free PMR sets.

 

Google them and you simply won't believe the price. Pretty much disposable.

Edited November 19, 2015 by jinnantonnixx

[mavhc]

We have a blanket 'no mobile phones in front of kids' policy. This comes from our LEA.

 

It may be about to change, but at the moment, those are the rules.

 

What reason was given?

[john]

I had Vitai radios from here - Licenced the model seems to have been discontinued now. But we had them and they were licensed (cheap enough to sort that) and were great and worked well in our old building much better than the unlicensed ones.

[Oaktech]

What reason was given?

 

Child protection. Obviously.

[jinnantonnixx]

Whichever ones you buy, make sure they can be programmed with a 'scrambler' function. It overlays a tone over the signal (which is of course decoded by the receiver). It's not very high-tech, but it will thwart casual eavesdropping.

[bossman]

@Oaktech

 

Motorola XT420:

 

Features:

Operates on license and subscription-free PMR446 frequencies

8 Channels

On/off/volume control knob

16-position channel/code selector knob

Autoscan

Battery Save

USB CPS Interface

Radio Mic Gain

Accessory Mic Gain

Scan and Scan List

Voice scrambling for extra privacy

Time-Out Timer

Compatible with XTNi Audio Accessories

 

Point out the "Voice scrambling for extra privacy"

 

We have never had any trouble with outside interference as we set them up ourselves to different channels and frequencies for different groups of staff.

[Oaktech]

@Oaktech

 

Motorola XT420:

 

Features:

Operates on license and subscription-free PMR446 frequencies

8 Channels

On/off/volume control knob

16-position channel/code selector knob

Autoscan

Battery Save

USB CPS Interface

Radio Mic Gain

Accessory Mic Gain

Scan and Scan List

Voice scrambling for extra privacy

Time-Out Timer

Compatible with XTNi Audio Accessories

 

Point out the "Voice scrambling for extra privacy"

 

We have never had any trouble with outside interference as we set them up ourselves to different channels and frequencies for different groups of staff.

 

Ok, right, that's enhanced security, but its not an actual encrypted service then.

[bossman]

@Oaktech

 

It would in my eyes have to be some form of encryption as each device would have to be able to unscramble the signal and the only way I see that happening is with each device having its own scramble and unscramble keys hardcoded into the chipsets would it not?

 

Don't actually know for sure but as I understand there are 2 models, the licensed and the unlicensed with voice scramble, I don't actually know if ours are licensed and encrypted but will find out for you.

 

As others have stated on here we also have strict protocols for staff who use them also.

[MatthewL]

Entel and Motorola are 2 good brands as well as Kenwood. All 3 used by emergency services and are reliable too.

[Oaktech]

@Oaktech

 

It would in my eyes have to be some form of encryption as each device would have to be able to unscramble the signal and the only way I see that happening is with each device having its own scramble and unscramble keys hardcoded into the chipsets would it not?

 

Don't actually know for sure but as I understand there are 2 models, the licensed and the unlicensed with voice scramble, I don't actually know if ours are licensed and encrypted but will find out for you.

 

As others have stated on here we also have strict protocols for staff who use them also.

 

From my understanding of it, what it is a type of pilot tone transmitted over the top of the transmission. That tone is what would be heard by standard radio equipment not equipped with the same technology, I am unsure as to how clever these particular radios are about varying the tone. The receiving equipment then filters the tone out making the transmission understandable again. Someone who really wanted to listen in could simply place a variable audio frequency filter in front of the receiving radio and filter out the tone, it's not actual sending-a-key-sending-a-transmission-loading-the-key-decrypting-the-transmission type of end to end encryption as you would see in something like the public service tetra radios.