Advice please - Need to replace very old kit but very minimal budget!

[klop]

Hi all,

 

Our ICT has been very underfunded for a number of years now and is now getting daft.

I've just found out next years budget is going to be around £10k, for certain no more.

That's for everything except licences and our ISP costs.

 

Currently we have quite a range of old kit.

 

We have approx. 160 students. Around 130 of them have individual logins, the others (our primary) login as a group

We have roughly 80 or so members of staff - half of whom I would guestimate use the PCs regularly.

 

Emails are Office 365 and working fine

 

All windows devices are W7 Pro

We have approx. 105 desktop PCs in daily use.

38 are just over 9 years old

47 are around 5 to 6 year old

20ish are less than a year old.

 

We have approx. 45 laptops for staff in regular use.

4 are only 6 months or so old, the remaining 41 are around 5 years old.

 

We have 30 netbooks that are approx. 4 years old and the majority are rarely used.

 

Wireless is Ruckus and works well.

We backup to RBUSS every night.

 

We have two DCs, one print server and a SIMS server.

There are also a couple of very old servers running our anti-virus, FOG, etc.

We have one HP N40L which we use with Azure to sync our AD with Office 365. I think Spiceworks may also be on this.

 

The two DCs are Dell PowerEdge 2900 III purchased in Dec 2008. Both ran out of warranty some time back.

One has 2 x QUAD CORE XEON E5430, 24GB RAM

Hard drives are; 2 x 146GB SAS 15K 3.5" HD HOT PLUG and 5 x 750GB NEAR-LINE SAS 7.2K

 

The other has 2 x QUAD CORE XEON E5410, 16GB RAM

Hard drives are; 4 x 750GB SERIAL ATAU 7.2K 3.5" HD HOT PLUG and 2 x 250GB SERIAL ATAU 7.2K 3.5" HD HOT PLUG

 

I believe both are mirroring the two smaller drives for OS and use RAID 5 with the remainder.

 

Both these servers are Server 2008 64bit (not R2!)

 

Print server is a Dell PowerEdge R300 running Server 2008 64bit

We have a range of older printers so there are two virtual servers also on this running Server 2003(!) and Server 2008 32bit

 

Our SIMS server is a Dell PowerEdge R420 and is reasonable new - it's working well.

 

All cabinet switches in school are gigabit. There probably are some 10/100 dotted about on desks though.

 

IWBs are 9 year old Hitachi Starboards. Projectors were installed at the same time - 9 years ago.

We do have 3 newly installed Smart Boards with new projectors!

 

So... what would you buy?

 

I'm nervously concerned re. the age of the servers.

I'm considering a small cheap Server 2012 rackmount to work as our sole DC. I'd then demote the two existing DCs and use one as a file server and the other... not sure yet - does WSUS need to run on a DC - I need to check that.

 

Our ICT co-ordinator would like more Smart Boards, but at a smidge over £2k per install that would eat into the budget too much.

 

Our ICT room needs new PCs, it currently has 13 and that's about all we can squeeze in there. 13 new PCs are going to eat into the tiny budget too.

We have a second ICT room, also with 13 PCs. If I replace all 26 these could then be used around the school in place of some of the 9+ year old machines.

Can I afford 26 new PCs though!

 

Staff laptops aren't great. They are a mix of Latitude e43010 and e6420 with a handful e5500 thrown in for good measure.

Although a lot of these could do with replacing - we cannot afford it.

 

Day to day costs need to be considered too.

 

Guess it's not going to be a year for innovation!

 

Or do we lease????

 

Thanks for any advice.

Edited June 25, 2015 by klop
Stated RAM size was incorrect

[CamelMan]

ICT Direct would be worth a shout for second hand kit.

 

Alternatively Leasing got us out a hole a few years ago! (Plus they cant pull the budget next year as its a commitment!)

[SHimmer45]

leasing the equipment is fine but id always consider what happens after the lease period ends.

i would look at some recon kit with warranty for the servers, and desktop unit can be had for £250.00 a unit and are going to be a world of difference compared to what you are using.

 

perhaps try and put together a plan for what you want to try and replace over the next 1-2 years and sit down with the school and get some kind of gradual replacement plan in for key area's IE servers 1st and work you way downwards.

[elsiegee40]

Another recommendation for @ICTDirect_Dave

[ICTDirect_Dave]

We can definitely help you out here.

 

Helping schools get the most out of their very limited budget is exactly what we're best at.

 

We have servers that are both cheap and better than the old R3 2900s that you're using and we can provide excellent prices for dekstops, laptops and monitors.

 

Whats more we back everything with great warranties to make sure you're trouble free for as long as possible

 

Drop me a PM?

Edited June 25, 2015 by ICTDirect_Dave

[3s-gtech]

Despite the age of equipment, it sounds like you have managed the kit well to get it to last and still be useable. Personally, I've found that 9 year old PCs can still do the job - early Core 2 Duo machines can usually take 4GB RAM (3.25GB useable) and an SSD, so upgrades may get some more life from what you have. SSDs can always be transferred on when budget allows.

 

Personally, I'd be looking at projectors before PCs, as old projectors are horrible things to use, and they're so important in classrooms now. Large TVs/panels may be a more suitable option for you, worth checking.

 

Your servers, despite their age and warranty status, are more than capable of carrying on. An upgrade to Server 2012 R2 would be worthwhile and cheap, and it may be worth looking at getting a few spares in like SAS drives.

 

Your network infrastructure sounds fine, though it's worth getting desktop switches wired out if possible. Old IWBs aren't usually an issue - Starboards are tough are work and fine in W7, so stick with them.

 

WSUS doesn't need to be on a DC. It needs plenty of storage, but not that much power.

 

Keep at it though - it really doesn't sound that bad and with some work it can continue to serve you. Speaking from experience!

[klop]

Cheers guys. I'm only employed term time but thinking I shall plan over the holidays to try and make the best of what we have, and perhaps add some further kit from ICT Direct.

@3s-gtech Thank you, what you've written is kinda how I felt. The older PCs are all Core 2 Duo, I have just finally given up on the remaining P4s we had.

Only thing with the SSDs is throwing more money at them - Guess I hadn't considered using them after. I did put a couple in a couple of Laptops, they were Dell Latitude e4310 with 8GB RAM and an i3 processor (I think). I was quite disappointed by the performance, to tell the truth it didn't make much difference so I guess that has kinda put me off a little.

 

I was wondering about upgrading the servers ro Server 2012. Anyone done this? What if anything will be lost / need to be re-done?

Is it a simple upgrade? This will be Server 2008 Enterprise & Standard to 2012

I think there are spare slots for upping the RAM on both 2900s, I'll see how available & cost effective that might be. I'd like to cut down on our older printers and make more use of our print server too - not sure if that is possible though and to tell the truth not sure what I can use it additionally for.

 

I'd like to look at MDT in place of FOG, FOG is getting a little tired now so guess that would make sense. Hoping that doesn't need a dedicated machine to sit on - something to have a read up on me thinks.

 

Again, thanks for advice. Best I get planning! At least this year I know what my budget roughly is!

 

Forgot to say... SLT are not keen on leasing!

[simpsonj]

In terms of improving laptop speed, I would make sure that they connect to a 5ghz network (where possible) as I've found that it's the wireless speed that slows a laptop, even with a SSD.

 

Upgrading from 2008 to 2012 is going to be a biggie. Personally I've bought in a new server, installed Server 2012 and then migrated the roles from the old server to the new, along with any data. But I may be wrong and you can do it, so worth checking with other people! But then I had the 32bit version of Server 2008 and couldn't directly upgrade so YMMV.

 

Otherwise you're setup isn't too far removed from my own, just gotta keep things chugging along as best you can and invest the money wisely. Batteries, RAM, SSDs, Wireless cards, any little upgrades or maintenance things you can buy that will make a noticeable impact are worthwhile, and teachers love a new projector if you can afford them!

[3s-gtech]

I've found that the responsiveness differs massively with SSDs. Boot times can only come down so much with our domain overheads. Loading software once logged in is far less painful. A good example is our Macs - the brand new i5 powered models with HDD are awful, but our five year old iMacs with SSD are a joy to use.

 

Upgrading the servers needs planning. This is where VMs come in - you can build a new VM on 2012 R2 and migrate across things like files and printers. You can in-place upgrade in some cases, but better not to.

 

We still use FOG. Our ancient copy of 0.29 images our W7 and W8.1 machines fine, though we also have a newer version elsewhere. Still great software. Have a play with MDT/WDS to see if you like it first, you can run both and just swap over by changing DHCP options.

[tmcd35]

I know you're nervous about the age of some of the kit, but unless leasing is an affordable option then you need to accept that you don't have either the time or money to do everything. The best thing you can do is work with someone like ICT Direct to come up with a 5-year rolling plan, prioritise. 1 Server plus 9 Staff laptops per year?

 

Look at how you can re-purpose existing servers to tide you over. Can you virtualise? Can you combine hardware into a Frankenstein box? Will the old hardware run Server 2012R2 (probably yes). Rather than replacing old hardware wholesale, I'd look at cheap hard drive and ram upgrades to tide you over a couple of years, yes SSD's on the desktop.

 

IWB's can be ignored. Projectors, sounds like out situation here! A rolling program replacing 3-4 with Casio LED's and replacing 9-10 bulbs each year until you've replaced all the projectors with longer lasting bulbless.

 

Don't though any working hardware away if you have the space to store it. Old projectors, PC's, laptops will get you out of a jam with spare parts, or as full working spares, when the some of the overused ageing hardware starts failing.

[klop]

Ok, a development - we've been given some cash to spend before the end of term. It's not a lot though, just under £2k

 

I can see two options server wise;

 

Option one would be to purchase a cheap new server and use that as our DC. Two existing Dell 2900 servers would then be kept and used for file storage, WSUS, etc.

 

Option two is to move all roles onto one Dell 2900. Upgrade the second to Server 2012R2 and then promote it to a DC and move all roles back to it. Demote other Dell 2900 to non DC then upgrade to Server 2012, promote it back to a DC and use both - as we are now.

Both servers would have a clean install - not an upgrade 'whilst in place'

 

I cannot see us being able to purchase a decent enough server with enough storage or RAM to provide a good virtualised setup.

 

If we do not purchase a replacement server I can use all the cash within the classrooms.

 

I do have as many spare parts as I can keep out of kit that has finally broken.

I have also recently raided a local school's throw out pile for components!!

 

Thanks guys and gals :-)

[klop]

Forgot to mention SSDs.

All our desktops switch on using wolcmd first thing in the morning, every morning.

The boot up time is appalling, then they run very slow whilst antivirus scans etc. so they all switch on around 7am.

I did think about SSDs but decided against them, I don't think they speed up actual daily use do they?

 

I think anything we purchase from now on I will make sure has them fitted though.

Thanks

[3s-gtech]

Option two. Your servers should carry on serving you, but the process you describe is precisely what I'd do, though I'd probably try and virtualise the roles onto the box. Same principle. I'd say spend the money in the classrooms - £2000 will buy a good number of SSDs or cheaper projectors.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Ok, a development - we've been given some cash to spend before the end of term. It's not a lot though, just under £2k I can see two options server wise; Option one would be to purchase a cheap new server and use that as our DC. Two existing Dell 2900 servers would then be kept and used for file storage, WSUS, etc. Option two is to move all roles onto one Dell 2900. Upgrade the second to Server 2012R2 and then promote it to a DC and move all roles back to it. Demote other Dell 2900 to non DC then upgrade to Server 2012, promote it back to a DC and use both - as we are now. Both servers would have a clean install - not an upgrade 'whilst in place' I cannot see us being able to purchase a decent enough server with enough storage or RAM to provide a good virtualised setup. If we do not purchase a replacement server I can use all the cash within the classrooms. I do have as many spare parts as I can keep out of kit that has finally broken. I have also recently raided a local school's throw out pile for components!! Thanks guys and gals :-)

£2k(ish) for a decent server? You can't have bag and bags of cores / ram for that! Drop me a line and let talk

[timbo343]

2k could do 7 projectors or about 44 samsung 850 evo 120gb SSDs

[timbo343]

See post 21 on this thread http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/136885-ssd-v-hdd-2.html. I did some bench tests HDD vs SSD in boot times.

[tmcd35]

I'd suggest the first priority is the 38 desktops over 9 years old. I'd upgrade the two existing server to 2012 R2 as you suggested in option 2, and then make some immediate in roads on those with the help of ICT Direct. But spending this £2k must be backed up with a longer term development plan that slowly upgrades all the kit over a sensible life cycle. So next year you want to get another chunck of those desktops out the way along with some of those projectors and maybe some staff laptops (although given ages I'd say the oldest desktops probably take priority).

[Irazmus]

Since you're in Suffolk, are you eligible to "bid" (no money involved) on the the kit from the middle schools (like mine) closing under SOR this summer?

If you are, give it a look, as while most of our kit is getting on a bit (our main IT suite was bought in 2007), we bought quality in the first place so most things still work relatively well. Chuck an SSD (and maybe some extra RAM) into our desktops and you'd probably get another year or two out of them.

 

To give some idea of what we'll be getting rid of:

 

Desktops

~90 x Dell Optiplex 745/755 USFF

14 x custom build Stones - For music

~30 HP DC7700

 

Laptops

~60 x Samsung NC20 (Avoid like the plague. They've been nothing but trouble)

~40 x Dell Latitude D530/E5500

 

Network

11 x HP Procurve switches (2800, 2824, 2650)

10 x Ruckus ZF7363

1 X Ruckus Zonedirector 1100

 

Servers

2 x Dell PowerEdge R715 (2 x AMD Opteron 6276 (16 core), 32 GB RAM, 4 x 600G SAS) - Virtualization hosts. Currently running 21 VMs. Fully redundant.

1 x Dell PowerEdge R515 (2 x AMD Opteron 4234, 32GB RAM, 2 x 500GB SAS, 4 x 1TB SAS) - Main file server

3 x Dell PowerEdge SC1435 - DCs and firewall

1 x Dell PowerEdge 2950 - Mail server

2 x Dell PowerEdge 2800 - Redundant but kept "just in case"

All but the R*** are over the hill, but they're still serviceable.

 

AV

~30 SmartBoards - Most outdated and/or broken

~30 Projectors - Most so old they don't display properly except in pitch black, but 1 or 2 are decent

 

I've no idea what kit the other closing middle schools have got, they may have a few hidden gems of their own.

Also, I can't guarantee the local high schools won't manage to grab the lot (not our decision), but if you are eligible, you may just get lucky.

 

P.S. If you need any help with setup, my technician and I are available for contract work as we're both redundant as of the end of term

[Oaktech]

I would look at your wired network too... If bits of it are running 10/100 that's a massive potential bottleneck. I'd look at the HP 1900 series switches as they have an excellent feature set at very competitive prices, and you get the benefit of that HP lifetime warranty.

 

I've got 35 of @ICTDirect_Dave's Lenovo M58p core 2 duo machines in my middle school and they are absolutely fine. And cheap. Even cheaper now than when I bought them!

[klop]

Since you're in Suffolk, are you eligible to "bid" (no money involved) on the the kit from the middle schools (like mine) closing under SOR this summer?

If you are, give it a look, as while most of our kit is getting on a bit (our main IT suite was bought in 2007), we bought quality in the first place so most things still work relatively well. Chuck an SSD (and maybe some extra RAM) into our desktops and you'd probably get another year or two out of them.

 

To give some idea of what we'll be getting rid of:

 

Desktops

~90 x Dell Optiplex 745/755 USFF

14 x custom build Stones - For music

~30 HP DC7700

 

Laptops

~60 x Samsung NC20 (Avoid like the plague. They've been nothing but trouble)

~40 x Dell Latitude D530/E5500

 

Network

11 x HP Procurve switches (2800, 2824, 2650)

10 x Ruckus ZF7363

1 X Ruckus Zonedirector 1100

 

Servers

2 x Dell PowerEdge R715 (2 x AMD Opteron 6276 (16 core), 32 GB RAM, 4 x 600G SAS) - Virtualization hosts. Currently running 21 VMs. Fully redundant.

1 x Dell PowerEdge R515 (2 x AMD Opteron 4234, 32GB RAM, 2 x 500GB SAS, 4 x 1TB SAS) - Main file server

3 x Dell PowerEdge SC1435 - DCs and firewall

1 x Dell PowerEdge 2950 - Mail server

2 x Dell PowerEdge 2800 - Redundant but kept "just in case"

All but the R*** are over the hill, but they're still serviceable.

 

AV

~30 SmartBoards - Most outdated and/or broken

~30 Projectors - Most so old they don't display properly except in pitch black, but 1 or 2 are decent

 

I've no idea what kit the other closing middle schools have got, they may have a few hidden gems of their own.

Also, I can't guarantee the local high schools won't manage to grab the lot (not our decision), but if you are eligible, you may just get lucky.

 

P.S. If you need any help with setup, my technician and I are available for contract work as we're both redundant as of the end of term

 

 

Firstly - really sorry re redundancies. I don't know much about SOR and what has happened as in Ipswich we never had middle schools.

I don't know if they work better - it does seem like a cost cutting plan though?

I truly hope you and your team find work asap!

 

I had no idea other schools could bid on stuff.

I know our site manager has been out and got some furniture from somewhere but he suggested there was no ICt equipment that he saw.

I guess they were already closed though, I assume you're still open till Sept?

[Irazmus]

Firstly - really sorry re redundancies. I don't know much about SOR and what has happened as in Ipswich we never had middle schools.

 

They are a bit of an anomaly, and a dying breed, but they work very well.

 

I don't know if they work better - it does seem like a cost cutting plan though?

 

As far as I'm concerned there are benefits to both the 2 and 3 tier systems, and both can be as effective as each other if managed correctly. In my opinion, SOR is purely a cost cutting plan which effectively says "to hell with the current pupils", as the uncertainty and lack of investment over the last few years has not had a positive effect on the staff (and therefore pupils) in middle schools during the wind down.

 

I truly hope you and your team find work asap!

 

Thanks. I'm sure something will turn up sooner or later.

On the upside, at least we won't have to migrate this system to Windows 10

 

I had no idea other schools could bid on stuff.

I know our site manager has been out and got some furniture from somewhere but he suggested there was no ICt equipment that he saw.

 

According to our Business Manager, any Suffolk school can bid, but priority will likely go to our pyramid, so they'll probably get the best of our kit and everyone else will have to fight over the dregs. But it's worth a try as some of our dregs are still serviceable.

 

I guess they were already closed though, I assume you're still open till Sept?

 

We are open until the 22nd of July. After that it will be only me and my technician decommissioning and wiping the system, and the SOR team gutting the buildings and redistributing all the equipment to other schools. [sARCASM]Fun times.[/sARCASM]

[klop]

We are open until the 22nd of July. After that it will be only me and my technician decommissioning and wiping the system, and the SOR team gutting the buildings and redistributing all the equipment to other schools. [sARCASM]Fun times.[/sARCASM]

 

That really sucks. Don't know where you are based - there's a nm job in Ipswich advertised at the moment. Was on the jobs 24 direct (or whatever it is!) website.

 

I've had a quick chat with our site manager apparently he gets the emails that let him bid for things.

 

Nobody thought to let me know. We could have really made use of some of your kit - but as you say it will probably be local schools first anyway.

 

I'll win the lottery this weekend and I'll let you know when the job here is available (which would be first thing Monday morning!) But, in honesty you might not thank me for it!

[Irazmus]

That really sucks. Don't know where you are based - there's a nm job in Ipswich advertised at the moment. Was on the jobs 24 direct (or whatever it is!) website.

 

I've come to terms with it, I just like to get it over with now.

 

I've had a quick chat with our site manager apparently he gets the emails that let him bid for things.

 

Nobody thought to let me know. We could have really made use of some of your kit - but as you say it will probably be local schools first anyway.

 

It might, but I'd still suggest bidding just on the off chance.

 

I'll win the lottery this weekend and I'll let you know when the job here is available (which would be first thing Monday morning!) But, in honesty you might not thank me for it!

 

Since I plan on using this as an opportunity to get out of I.T. support and into development, I might not at that.

[klop]

Time for an update....

 

Firstly a genuine thanks Irazmus. Unfortunately though I've looked into bidding and apparently I'm too late.

Emails were forwarded from our office to the site manager and our SLT, nobody thought to let me know. Not even our ICT Co-ordinator, who is also part of our SLT!

 

As for the £2k we have to spend before the end of term.

I thought Impero would help wonders. We have no web monitoring here so it would tick that box, also I have occasional trouble patching everything with everything here so along with a few of the other 'tools' it has it seemed a good idea. It's a big no though.

 

We're buying 3 iPads and 4 apple TVs for three teachers (and one teacher with our one and only iPad). I'm told that is the best use of the money.

There's no real mention of the remaining pennies - I think I might spend it on bits, ready for a really c*@p expected year to follow. Budget for next year once the annual payments have been made is now £0.

Kinda thinking buy a new server instead of the iPads and save myself some work!

 

I'm sure it could be worse - it just seems a little pointless coming to work at the moment.

[3s-gtech]

With what you've explained, some iPads and Apple TVs for a few teachers is definitely the best use of the money. THE CLOUD WILL SOLVE IT ALL.

 

/sarcasm

 

My sympathies. Your small budget would have gone a long way if spent wisely.