LosOjos Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I'm about to buy my first house (yay!) and part of my bargaining with the SO is that I get to automate certain aspects of the home So, have any of you done this and if so, how? I know there are various proprietary systems, but I'd prefer something open. Of course if the proprietary are leagues ahead I'll consider them, but the tinkerer in me is drawn to something open I can develop on top of. Main things I'm looking to achieve: - control lighting - control power sockets - control heating - "if this then that" style events Ninja Blocks look very appealing to me as they seem compatible with a whole range of devices, meaning I could buy smart sockets/light switches and connect them to the Ninja Block (I think?) Also thinking about the control side, I don't really want to rely on my phone for that, would love to set up a cheap Android tablet as a single purpose device (i.e. only runs the Ninja Block app for example) or purchase something along those lines that can be configured to control whatever I add to the system. I'd love to hear first hand from someone who has done it so I know which pitfalls to look out for.
Andrew_C Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I'll be following this with interest. One of my plans for the next week or so is to look into "Lightwave RF" having spotted it in a CPC flyer.
plexer Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I backed https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2097793904/linkio/ as a retrofit solution due to the cost. I've looked in to Lightwave stuff before but it's quite expensive. Ben 1
LosOjos Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 I backed https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2097793904/linkio/ as a retrofit solution due to the cost. I've looked in to Lightwave stuff before but it's quite expensive. Ben I see they've gone a bit radio silent, doesn't look good! Great looking product though, just hope it comes through... I may be too impatient!
featured_spectre Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Not me, but there was a chap from Edugeek (can't think of his name) that had built sensors into certain rooms so that the lights came on automatically (bathroom for example). I thought that was cool. He explained that on a website which is no longer available. I *think* it was @browolf perhaps, or @Marci ...one of those 2 I am sure. *edit* I myself have automated downstairs lamps in the front room when the outside gets below a certain level of light outside. Works like a charm, and we only switch it off when we go to bed, and I turn it on when I get up in the morning. Edited June 2, 2015 by featured_spectre
LosOjos Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 Not me, but there was a chap from Edugeek (can't think of his name) that had built sensors into certain rooms so that the lights came on automatically (bathroom for example). I thought that was cool. He explained that on a website which is no longer available. I *think* it was @browolf perhaps, or @Marci ...one of those 2 I am sure. You can buy PIR light switches to do this independently of any other hardware (we have them in certain rooms in the school) but the problem with that approach is, if you're sat still for a while (watching TV for instance), suddenly all the lights go out! I wonder if there's such a device that will simply sense a large heat source, rather than a moving one (as a PIR does). I imagine the reason for the movement necessity is that's the easiest way to identify life rather than, say, a radiator. There has to be a smarter way to deal with it though...
Arreks Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I had a quick look at PIR switches and it seems that the maximum "light on" time varies but isn't very high at all (like 20 minutes), what physical limitation is stopping them from 'not sensing' for an hour or two? how annoying..
GuyJD Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I've heard a lot of good things about the Philips Hue lightbulbs, you can control them all from a tablet and there are some pretty cool effects you can do with them thanks to user created light sets. I'm probably going to go with them and get a Nest to control the heating but I've got a million and one other things I need before I can start of stuff like that.
pcstru Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I'm about to buy my first house (yay!) and part of my bargaining with the SO is that I get to automate certain aspects of the home Congratulations! I put together a system with various monitoring nodes using Open Energy Monitor kit and emoncms. I was interested in expanding that to do some control but primarily back to a greenhouse for watering etc. A while back I started looking at Home Automation Hub stuff, which seemed quite mature. I even sourced an old Orange box to use as a hub. I might revisit that when I again become a home owner (hopefully in about 8 weeks) but ... I'm kind of glad I didn't run wild in my last house because I think unless it is done in a way that can be easily removed, it would be a problem when it comes to selling. Something like X10 would be a better bet from the POV of industry standard that any sparky would (probably) be comfortable with. I think a typical sparky would throw a fit if they saw an Arduino board behind a light switch! 1
LosOjos Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 I've heard a lot of good things about the Philips Hue lightbulbs, you can control them all from a tablet and there are some pretty cool effects you can do with them thanks to user created light sets. I'm probably going to go with them and get a Nest to control the heating but I've got a million and one other things I need before I can start of stuff like that. Yeah I'm probably going to get some Hue bulbs (have an idea for an "immersive lighting" plugin for XBMC/Kodi which would work similarly to the ambient TV surround lighting - may or may not be totally irritating! ) What I'm looking for though is a system that ties various appliances together, like the Ninja Block, so they cann all be controlled centrally. If multiple apps are required to control things, the SO will not use it and the lot will have to be taken out. Needs to be as simple to use as humanly possible - she struggles with the universal remote!
LeMarchand Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I've heard a lot of good things about the Philips Hue lightbulbs, you can control them all from a tablet and there are some pretty cool effects you can do with them thanks to user created light sets. SyFy (probably US only) have lighting effects for a few select programs: Syfy - Watch Full Episodes | Imagine Greater | Syfy Sync
LosOjos Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 SyFy (probably US only) have lighting effects for a few select programs: Syfy - Watch Full Episodes | Imagine Greater | Syfy Sync That's an awesome version of what I had in mind for a Kodi plugin! I was just going to take an average scene colour a couple of times a second (depending on how much of a CPU drain that proves to be), then use a 3 point moving average to change the colour/brightness of the bulb - this is how I imagine (with zero research of course) ambient lighting on TVs works. Would be cool to get the light flashing along to a thunderstorm, but I suspect the only reliable way to do that would be a scene-by-scene scripted setup such as the Sysfy app appears to use.
howartp Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I do Home Automation left, right and centre. Have a look at Indigo Home Automation (http://www.indigodomo.com) Natively it supports Zwave, X10 and Insteon, but there are plugins for loads of stuff including LightwaveRF, Phillips Hue, Sonos, Nest.... The community is huge, forums are as active as Edugeek; several members including myself write/maintain user plugins alongside the Devs - who themselves are on the boards on a daily basis responding to questions. Feel free to ask questions. Vesternet.com is your one-stop shop for HA in this country, and has similar ethos for customer service, support and ongoing developments/ product ranges. 1
LosOjos Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 I do Home Automation left, right and centre. Have a look at Indigo Home Automation (Indigo Domotics - Advanced Mac-based Smart Home Hub) Natively it supports Zwave, X10 and Insteon, but there are plugins for loads of stuff including LightwaveRF, Phillips Hue, Sonos, Nest.... The community is huge, forums are as active as Edugeek; several members including myself write/maintain user plugins alongside the Devs - who themselves are on the boards on a daily basis responding to questions. Feel free to ask questions. Vesternet.com is your one-stop shop for HA in this country, and has similar ethos for customer service, support and ongoing developments/ product ranges. Looks great but bloody hell, how much?! As a newbie to this kind of tech, why is that software worth £130 when the likes of Ninja Blocks are free (software)?
howartp Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Looks great but bloody hell, how much?! As a newbie to this kind of tech, why is that software worth £130 when the likes of Ninja Blocks are free (software)? I haven't come across Ninja Blocks before, but looking at it, isn't their software based on coding? The whole UI for Indigo is not only great in the first place, but also extensible by plugin writers. You can achieve 80-90-100% of what you want without touching code, but if you have specific need for some code to do something complex, ask on the forum and we'll help you with the code to put into a Python script action - all within Indigo's UI. Instead of putting Indigo on a par with Ninja Blocks or LightwaveRF products from B&Q, which are individual ecosystems, you should compare it with VeraEdge / Micasa Verde (Veraâ„¢ â–¾ Smarter Home Control) or the Fibaro HomeCenter (The Fibaro System | Fibaro - Z-Wave smart home solution) - all three of these are designed as central solutions that bring together the various ecosystems into one. There are several new users on the Indigo forums each month saying "I'm just migrating from VeraEdge...." or "... from Fibaro HomeCenter..." - there's got to be a reason for it. I've only seen one user mention switching the other way, and we solved the issues he had due to his misunderstanding of certain features. "If I press a switch in the lounge/media room, please turn the lights down, switch on the TV, surround sound and Media player, lock the front door, switch to the relevant inputs, close the blinds and...." - try doing that in Ninja Blocks on its own, or in Phillips Hue on its own, or in Nest on its own... You have to start somewhere, so buying a few LightwaveRF and/or Phillips Hue devices is quite possible a good start - operate them using their own native apps to start with, then in a couple of months buy the Indigo Starter pack, then add a couple of motion sensors, then.... and just keep on building. It's an expensive hobby, not an expensive product - but for the geeks in us here on this forum, it's a fun hobby. Peter 2
john Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 These guys do some great installations - Epixx - The Smart Home Company one of thedirectors is a mate of mine and very much into his gadgetry and geekary maybe you could get some ideas from them 1
LosOjos Posted June 3, 2015 Author Posted June 3, 2015 I haven't come across Ninja Blocks before, but looking at it, isn't their software based on coding? Yes and no - you can write your own code, but there's a "if this, then that" type interface to setup rules that looks pretty simple. Either way, I am a coder so this doesn't concern me too much (I'll be the one doing all the setup, SO will simply be an end user [so to speak]) The whole UI for Indigo is not only great in the first place, but also extensible by plugin writers. You can achieve 80-90-100% of what you want without touching code, but if you have specific need for some code to do something complex, ask on the forum and we'll help you with the code to put into a Python script action - all within Indigo's UI. Yeah this is something I'm unclear on RE Ninja Blocks - they appear to be compatible with a range of devices but I'm not sure how easily the system can be extended to support any additional devices. As it's open source, I'd imagine it would be no more difficult than it is for Indigo though... need to research that. Instead of putting Indigo on a par with Ninja Blocks or LightwaveRF products from B&Q, which are individual ecosystems, you should compare it with VeraEdge / Micasa Verde (Veraâ„¢ â–¾ Smarter Home Control) or the Fibaro HomeCenter (The Fibaro System | Fibaro - Z-Wave smart home solution) - all three of these are designed as central solutions that bring together the various ecosystems into one. There are several new users on the Indigo forums each month saying "I'm just migrating from VeraEdge...." or "... from Fibaro HomeCenter..." - there's got to be a reason for it. I've only seen one user mention switching the other way, and we solved the issues he had due to his misunderstanding of certain features. "If I press a switch in the lounge/media room, please turn the lights down, switch on the TV, surround sound and Media player, lock the front door, switch to the relevant inputs, close the blinds and...." - try doing that in Ninja Blocks on its own, or in Phillips Hue on its own, or in Nest on its own... To be fair, this is the point of Ninja Blocks as far as I can tell; to provide a central hub to control other smart devices from a variety of eco systems. It sounds like Indigo and NB have similar goals. You have to start somewhere, so buying a few LightwaveRF and/or Phillips Hue devices is quite possible a good start - operate them using their own native apps to start with, then in a couple of months buy the Indigo Starter pack, then add a couple of motion sensors, then.... and just keep on building. It's an expensive hobby, not an expensive product - but for the geeks in us here on this forum, it's a fun hobby. This is where I'm a little unclear with the Indigo system - does that £130 include a starter pack of some sort? I'm assuming it'll require a central hub to 'speak' to the various devices in the home, does that come included in that initial cost? Or is it really £130 just for the software? Seems a little steep for what essentially sounds like a front end to run some Python scripts... Sorry if I'm coming across negative, it just seems like a major expense for something that (at least on the surface) appears to be no more than a GUI... and I'm not trying to say NB is as good/better, the only reason I keep referring back to it is that's where most of my research has been focused so far. I appreciate your input!
Arreks Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Ninja Blocks look fine to me? it's all just open source arduino after all. The core blocks contain a 'power block' type thing - turning on/off the TV, surround sound and media player etc are all essentially in built functionality. Ninja blocks also has a huge community with projects like controlling TVs etc. If it was me personally i'd go for Ninja Blocks which is the cheaper option.. 1
browolf Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Not me, but there was a chap from Edugeek (can't think of his name) that had built sensors into certain rooms so that the lights came on automatically (bathroom for example). I thought that was cool. He explained that on a website which is no longer available. I *think* it was @browolf perhaps, or @Marci ...one of those 2 I am sure. *edit* I myself have automated downstairs lamps in the front room when the outside gets below a certain level of light outside. Works like a charm, and we only switch it off when we go to bed, and I turn it on when I get up in the morning. not me
mjk Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 https://nest.com/uk/ The integration is good (open API) so you can easily get Lights, locks alarms with your thermostat. 1
LosOjos Posted June 5, 2015 Author Posted June 5, 2015 Ninja Blocks look fine to me? it's all just open source arduino after all. The core blocks contain a 'power block' type thing - turning on/off the TV, surround sound and media player etc are all essentially in built functionality. Ninja blocks also has a huge community with projects like controlling TVs etc. If it was me personally i'd go for Ninja Blocks which is the cheaper option.. Well I was swaying towards NB, but now they have a new product called the Sphere, which is a big ugly thing I don't want in my home and they appear to have stopped support for the Block, plus I can't find anywhere that actually sells them. So that's scuppered that one! The more I read, the more I'm thinking of going all out DIY on it with a Raspberry Pi... so long as I choose components with a decent API, I should be good to go and this will allow me to have a truly bespoke system (the more apps I look at, the more I'm thinking I'd rather design it myself!) https://nest.com/uk/ The integration is good (open API) so you can easily get Lights, locks alarms with your thermostat. Good to know, thanks! I have been looking at Nest, weighing up the pros and cons - it's very expensive compared to less smart alternatives... didn't realise it could control other devices though, so that could be a major selling point... will read more in to that.
mjk Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Good to know, thanks! I have been looking at Nest, weighing up the pros and cons - it's very expensive compared to less smart alternatives... didn't realise it could control other devices though, so that could be a major selling point... will read more in to that. It doesn't so much control other devices, it "works with" other devices. NEST basically works out your patterns, where you are, how far from home you (mobile phone info) are and controls the thermostat based upon it's "intelligent" information. Cameras, lights etc can work with it to only record when you are supposed to be out, or opposite for lights. There is a smoke detector too so you can watch your hose burn from the comfort of your mobile ( I hope not to use this feature). 1
LosOjos Posted June 5, 2015 Author Posted June 5, 2015 It doesn't so much control other devices, it "works with" other devices. NEST basically works out your patterns, where you are, how far from home you (mobile phone info) are and controls the thermostat based upon it's "intelligent" information. Cameras, lights etc can work with it to only record when you are supposed to be out, or opposite for lights. There is a smoke detector too so you can watch your hose burn from the comfort of your mobile ( I hope not to use this feature). OK so rather than giving you control over them directly, it learns your typical usage and issues commands itself? That sounds like a pretty cool addition to the system actually and judging by the API, could be rolled in to my DIY hub so that it can act on Nest's learned behaviour too. A plan is forming....
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