Espresso & proxy cache server

[mattx]

We are thinking of using the Espresso teaching resources etc for our school but they want to sell as a proxy cache server for £900

 

Now, i am sure this can be done a great deal cheaper if say we use squid etc on our own box.

Are you or do you know of a school which has done something similar ? And if so do they use Espresso.

[mattx]

>> Bump <<

 

Come on - someone must have built a proxy cache server. Am I going to have buy a book on this ?

[djones]

IPCop works very well as a proxy, cache, filter, etc etc and even on limited hardware. However, I'm not sure if Espresso requires their own server - we have one of their boxes but I haven't got around to investigating how it does anything - just know it works and that is all I care about at the moment! Sorry!

[klawd]

Well, do you actually need a proxy server?

 

I assume you are looking at the option of a local espresso server?

 

The proxy server is not needed for espresso....its not a requirement for espresso, just an option they are offering. They offered it so us as well and much like the espresso box itself seems underpowered and overpriced.

 

We use espresso fine without a proxy server here.

[mattx]

We use espresso fine without a proxy server here.

 

Thanks for that - I am now wondering if its worth asking them for a trial first to see how it would be without the cache server. We only have 5 meg max on our internet line, how fast is your link Klawd ?

Also I am thinking that at any one time only 12 / 14 people would actually be using the service.

I think I'll get my NM to talk to them a bit more when I have laid out some detailed technical questions.

[Geoff]

We have several feeder primary schools with 'espresso boxes'. My understanding was that you either got the box with everything preconfigured and the extra bells and whistles. Or you simply bought the content and stuck on a web server. The second option being a lot cheaper.

[klawd]

I am not sure what your plan is. Our setup means we have the espresso box physically inside our school on the network. This serves the content. Currently we have not configured our network to allow remote, ie from home access to espresso. It can only be accessed on the LAN. Therefore, the proxy server does not come into the equation.

 

Espresso told me the proxy server was an offer we could take up, if we needed a proxy server and did not have one already. We declined as we did not see a requirement for it.

 

In our case the speed of our link to the internet is only relevant for the

content updates it downloads every week.

 

It sounds like you maybe be offering espresso access outside of your LAN for users? If this is the case then I dont see how having a proxy would help them, and inside school the content appears to be dynamically generated which is unlikely to be cached anyhow.

[Andie]

We have Espresso and the cache pilot. It was a done deal through the LEA and so we didn't get a choice. It works OK though. However, if building your own, allow for the fact that the software gets added to very regularly. The cache box apparently has room for five years' worth of content. (The LEA were originally pushing the cache box on us as a place to cache our frequently used web pages, and software we wanted on the network - sort of a CD server; that seems to have a died a death since they found out that that would mean we would run out of space for Espresso quite quickly).

[BaccyNet]

We have the Espresso software running at the Primary. As the majority (I said majority, not all before someone complains ) of schools here have an LEA provided proxy server, the Espresso software seems to be an 'add-on' module for it.

 

Incidentaly whilst watching the LEA guy set the proxy up for Espresso, I did see the number of open source software being used to update it and such, so I dont know how hard it would be to run without the proxy.

 

And as others have said, it gets updated regularly. The proxy is filling up rather rapidly in fact. I wonder what it does if it gets full......

[mattx]

It sounds like you maybe be offering espresso access outside of your LAN for users?

 

Klawd - no. I never said that. I am asking about building our own proxy cache server instead of buying one.

 

and inside school the content appears to be dynamically generated which is unlikely to be cached anyhow.

 

Thats the point of the cache server !!

 

Or you simply bought the content and stuck on a web server. The second option being a lot cheaper.

 

I like the sound of that. I already have 2 windows boxes and a nix box running a web server so that would be a good option.....I'll ask them about that.

 

Thanks for everyone's replies so far - given me more questions to raise etc.

[klawd]

It sounds like you maybe be offering espresso access outside of your LAN for users?

 

Klawd - no. I never said that. I am asking about building our own proxy cache server instead of buying one.

 

etc.

 

My mistake, thought you were looking at offering remote access.

 

I am not sure why a proxy server would make any difference if the content is all stored on your LAN anyway? If anything it will prolly be slower as users will need to go through a proxy and then to the espresso server.

[mattx]

Klawd - check out:

 

http://www.espresso.co.uk/services/overview/tech_cache_primer.html

 

I think after we have spoken to them and get the ok [ I would like to have a crack at building our own proxy cache server ]

[ICT_GUY]

Did you build a caching server?

 

I have the "free" server here. Its a bit of a joke. A celeron dektop with a gig of ram.

 

I want to have a rack mounted server and since I can buy a quad core sever with 2 gigs of ram for £350 I think this is the way to go. I have heard bad things about the RM ones being not that reliable.

[ZeroHour]

Mattx what proxy/firewall do you use?

ISA can easily do it I would think in a limited sense.

[conehead]

All the schools in our LEA got supplied with a Equiinet CachePilot, and the majority use it for Espresso content, though a few have Knowledgebox installed instead, and I know one school has both on the same box. Access speeds are fine, apart from video over wireless but thats a different issue.

 

The only way anybody currently can access the full range of content at home is for free if they have a 4 meg Virgin Broadband account, or by subscribing to Virgin. I believe Virgin signed an exclusive 5 yr deal which Espresso can't get out of.

 

I don't know of anybody who is allowing home access to the Espresso content on the schools network, and I'm not sure what Espresso's view on that would be.

 

What I have not got to the bottom of yet is what happens to the Espresso content when a school unsubscribes to the yearly updates fee, are they still entitled to use the old content that is stored on their own box?

[ICT_GUY]

So is an isa sever a good option for hosting the expresso content?

 

I just dont like the idea of using the RM sever since as far as I am concerned its poo and I dont like relying on stuff I don't have control over (you can login but thats it, no admin control or low level control).

[ricki]

Hi

 

Before you start building a cache or squid box ask yourself some basic questions.

 

What do I want the box to achieve?

 

What sort of hardware do I already have that is reliable?

 

Do I have the technical knowledge of linux to do this?

 

How long will it take me to learn linux?

 

Do I need web filtering?

 

 

Do I have a problem with spyware at the moment?

 

Do I have a limited bandwidth?

 

Have I got the time to maintain it?

 

Now if you have a problem with spyware or have a limited bandwidth a caching box is good.

 

If you want to monitor what students are doing and want to be able to filter the internet well you will need linux with squid and dansguardian installed and possibly ident installed on the client machines so that the server knows who is asking for the page.

 

The learning curve for setting one of these boxes up is steap so you have to be willing to invest a bit of time.

 

The minimum hardware you will need is about 1 gig cpu with at least a gig of ram and a new hard drive about 40 gig. But remember the more powerful the better.

 

Download a copy of ubuntu server lamp version and install it on the machine.

Install ssh and use putty to access the machine from a widows machine.

Change the repositories and update the machine.

Install squid the cache program

Install dansguardian the filtering bit.

Read the configuration paperwork well and configure the conf files as needed.

Now install webmin and import the dansguardian module that can be downloaded from the dansguardian site.

Install sarg in the machine for reports and configure with webmin.

Install the ident program on a test machine and point it at the squid dansguardian box and if its all right bobs your uncle.

 

If this sound complicated or you dont have the time. Pay the money and have an easy life lols.

 

Have a look at the following sites for information ubuntu, squid, dansguardian, webmin, sarg

 

Richard

[ICT_GUY]

I already use squid running under 2003 server. Only thing I have found is that it upset certain services such as webmail and the such like.

 

However,

 

I was interested in an ISA server as a solution for simplicity, as I have access to a couple of gurus near by.

[ZeroHour]

I cant see why ISA would be bad. We use 2004 here and it has a cache mode which can have per-site settings assigned.

I can also do content download scheduling although that may be limited.

[Bluetooth]

Hello there!

 

I look after 7 primary schools and about half of them use Espresso. We do have a proxy server but it is the LEA's proxy and not something we were asked to buy by Espresso.

 

All we have done is added the Espresso servers IP address to the proxy exception list in IE and it works like a dream.

 

I would recommend Espresso, it is a superb tool and i have not had ANY problems bar 1 dead box that was replaced within a week (notified espresso, engineer picked up and dropped off replacement and it went straight back onto the network)

[TechSupp]

As an aside does anyone actually have home access to Espresso content (apart from the suggested Virgin users)? Mt schools are not happyas they don't have time at school to plan using it and really need access to it at home. Espresso's email answer is that they are working with LEA's involved to allow access in a rolling programme over the next 12 to 18 months. Believe it when I see it but fear that that time scale may be too far and they will have dumped Espresso for other content before then mainly due to the lack of external access. We have the Espresso Cachpilot box and the LEA controls all other aspects of broadband. We did end up going down the route of smoothwall at one stage but then approx 8 months later the LEA changed mind and took all the boxes as they wer having to go out all the time turning them on when ever there was a power cut etc "My internet won't work!".

[dave.81]

We just went with the box that Espresso provided and so far, although over priced, has been fine.

 

Our staff too have questioned being able to access the full content at home, most can be done via the espresso website but not the AV side of it.

 

I did open up a port forward to the epresso box but our connection is too slow for it to be useable so it's on hold at the moment.

[conehead]

I agree not being able to access full content at home is a bit inconvenient, but there is a way of planning and saving a lesson ahead in school with the Espresso "Route Creator"

 

In simple terms you navigate, in your own order to all the pages you want to use for a lesson, and the route creator tool lets you build a xml document that records the file locations on the cachebox , the XML file can then be saved on a pen drive or network location.

[mattx]

We just went with the box that Espresso provided and so far, although over priced, has been fine.

 

Our staff too have questioned being able to access the full content at home, most can be done via the espresso website but not the AV side of it.

 

I did open up a port forward to the epresso box but our connection is too slow for it to be useable so it's on hold at the moment.

 

Arrrr - I like that idea - I am now going to steal it and make it my own.....

[mattx]

Mattx what proxy/firewall do you use?

ISA can easily do it I would think in a limited sense.

 

Its all ok now thanks ZeroHour - we ended up getting the box - had it a while, big hit with the staff and kids....