Gongalong Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Hi All, We've got a teacher who wants to show programmes on iPlayer, but wants to show them in several months time after they expire. Ordinarily we would record them from Sky, but they have already been broadcast. What's the legality of downloading these iPlayer programmes (if there's a mechanism to do it) or using a torrent of these programmes (if one is available)? TIA
featured_spectre Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Ask for permission from the broadcaster first. They may be able to send you a copy. 1
JJonas Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) are they not available on the Sky on-demand catch up service? Hi All, What's the legality of downloading these iPlayer programmes (if there's a mechanism to do it) or using a torrent of these programmes (if one is available)? When you download from iPlayer the download is given an expiry date trying to circumvent the expiry date would be against iPlayers terms and conditions and almost certainly not legal. Edited July 22, 2014 by JJonas 1
X-13 Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 What's the legality of downloading these iPlayer programmes (if there's a mechanism to do it) You're not allowed. or using a torrent of these programmes (if one is available)? You're definitely not allowed. Copyright infringement is like religion. "They don't like it" is the answer to every their-opinion question. To expand properly: The iPlayer downloads are timed for 30 days. [iIRC] By law you aren't allowed to contravene their usage policy because, as the rights holder, they are allowed to set the usage requirements. And you can't use torrents. Due to how they work, you'd be sending data to people as well as receiving it. You have no idea if they have distribution rights or access[?] rights, so it's best to leave that alone. If you can find a legit BBC torrent, then go for it. But I doubt it exists. I know there are exemptions for educational use, but I don't think it allows you to break copyright law to acquire the media. [As usual: Not a lawyer. This 'aint legal advice.]
Gongalong Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 JJonas: The Sky box isn't connected to the service, although having checked one of the two required programmes is repeated tonight, and the other is on YouTube. It still bodes the questions though of: 1. Is playing this programme off YouTube in a school environment legal? 2. How long can we retain a recorded programme? (3. And I'm still curious as to whether a torrent would be legal)
Gongalong Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 I know there are exemptions for educational use, but I don't think it allows you to break copyright law to acquire the media. It's the potential educational exemptions that might be interesting. Perhaps they apply more to retaining recorded TV.
sonofsanta Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 No. Copyright law is stupid in this regard - even though the end product is the same, the manner in which you obtained it is important. You are allowed to record it from a free, over-the-air broadcast and store that recording forevermore, and make it available over the internet on a password protected site (e.g. VLE) under the terms of the ERA+ licence now purchased centrally by DfE. Circumventing the copy protection on an iPlayer stream or a protected iPlayer download is, I believe, against the Computer Misuse Act and illegal. Torrenting copyrighted material is always illegal. Bear in mind that it's still technically illegal to rip CDs you own to MP3s for your own personal use, or downloading torrents of MP3s for CDs you own. Again: Copyright law is stupid. Your options are waiting for a repeat, or getting a legally recorded version from another school. That's my understanding of the situation, anyway. 1
X-13 Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 It's the potential educational exemptions that might be interesting. Perhaps they apply more to retaining recorded TV. Yeah, I think they only cover things you already have [legally for personal use] though... So, that copy of Iron-man 2 you have on DVD from HMV can be used in a class, but Iron-man 3 you picked up from the bay of pirates can't. 1
matt40k Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Using torrent to download, in general, is fine. It's a great way for open-source software to be distributed without a large bill for the developer. It does have it's problem however and shouldn't be used in the education sector. Bypassing the DRM on media where the license has expired is illegal. How you do it doesn't matter how you do it, it's still breaking the law. In a totally unrelated statement, don't you miss the days when you just set the tv quick code and set the VCR to record it for later viewing. 1
sonofsanta Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah, I think they only cover things you already have [legally for personal use] though... So, that copy of Iron-man 2 you have on DVD from HMV can be used in a class, but Iron-man 3 you picked up from the bay of pirates can't. Educational exemptions for copyright law are only where relevant to the curriculum - so if you can find a justification for showing that Iron Man 2 DVD in class (product design, perhaps, or a media class) you're fine, but as soon as it's for entertainment purposes you need the PVSL/MPLC licence (depending on which licence Disney is a part of - probably the former). You also need the music licences (PPL and PRS) to cover the soundtrack, else you have to watch the film on mute. And even when you have all the relevant licences, you need to use a legal copy - so when teachers come to you with a DVD in hand asking if they can have copies so they can use it in three lessons at once, no, no they cannot. They need to purchase three copies. Again: copyright law is stupid. 1
Gongalong Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 One of the programmes (BBC sourced) is on YouTube already. I'm guessing that playing that in the school environment would be illegal because the programme is on YouTube illegally?
sonofsanta Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 If it's been uploaded there by the BBC then you'll be fine - Channel 4 used to put loads of stuff up there - but if it's been uploaded by Joe Random then I reckon it's creaky ground to be on, yeah. Complete this sentence: copyright law is... 1
Oaktech Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Just ask... We went through hoops to find a way of acquiring a copy of a documentary that was on iPlayer but not on DVD. The staff tried allsorts at home - none of which worked! I rang the BBC, explained the situation and they just sent a copy via sendspace and asked me to sign a usage agreement. 1
tmcd35 Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Bear in mind that it's still technically illegal to rip CDs you own to MP3s for your own personal use, or downloading torrents of MP3s for CDs you own. Again: Copyright law is stupid. AFAIK, this law was finally updated a month or so ago, so it's no longer illegal to format shift any content so long as it is for personal use only and you are not distributing the content in any way. This includes ripping DVD's to file servers, CD's to MP3's, VHS tapes to DVD, etc. And even when you have all the relevant licences, you need to use a legal copy - so when teachers come to you with a DVD in hand asking if they can have copies so they can use it in three lessons at once, no, no they cannot. They need to purchase three copies. I believe the education fair use updates allows for copying parts of works from an original source for research purposes. So you could rip a key scene from To Kill A Mockingbird (classic film) and give a copy to each student on a pen drive for them to cross reference with the book they are reading. But, you couldn't burn them copies of the entire film. 2
localzuk Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 AFAIK, this law was finally updated a month or so ago, so it's no longer illegal to format shift any content so long as it is for personal use only and you are not distributing the content in any way. This includes ripping DVD's to file servers, CD's to MP3's, VHS tapes to DVD, etc. Unless there is DRM. In which case, breaking DRM is illegal still... 1
sonofsanta Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 AFAIK, this law was finally updated a month or so ago, so it's no longer illegal to format shift any content so long as it is for personal use only and you are not distributing the content in any way. This includes ripping DVD's to file servers, CD's to MP3's, VHS tapes to DVD, etc. I believe the education fair use updates allows for copying parts of works from an original source for research purposes. So you could rip a key scene from To Kill A Mockingbird (classic film) and give a copy to each student on a pen drive for them to cross reference with the book they are reading. But, you couldn't burn them copies of the entire film. So they have, as of 1st June. Blimey! Copyright law is marginally less stupid than it was in May, albeit still pretty short-sighted.
matt40k Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 So technically, anyone who purchased a Sony MiniDisc (for example) back in the day then ripped their CD collection using Sony's own software to copy the music onto their Sony MiniDisc was in fact breaking the law? The same law that is meant to protect Sony? I guess that's why it never took off, because they could sue you for copyright infrigement by using their product
tmcd35 Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 So technically, anyone who purchased a Sony MiniDisc (for example) back in the day then ripped their CD collection using Sony's own software to copy the music onto their Sony MiniDisc was in fact breaking the law? Erm, Yes! The same law that is meant to protect Sony? Kinda. The law is more meant to protect the income of content creators. It just so happens a lot of the content creators are now 9-5 jobbers working for faceless corps rather than independents. I guess that's why it never took off, because they could sue you for copyright infrigement by using their product Not really, they were actually reasonably popular back in the day. More a victim of bad timing than anything. CD Walkmans, CD-R's, MP3's and Napster all appeared at around the same time.
LeMarchand Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Bear in mind that it's still technically illegal to rip CDs you own to MP3s for your own personal use, or downloading torrents of MP3s for CDs you own. The latter part makes sense, as you'd be uploading the torrent whilst downloading it. Potentially to people who didn't have an original. And even when you have all the relevant licences, you need to use a legal copy - so when teachers come to you with a DVD in hand asking if they can have copies so they can use it in three lessons at once, no, no they cannot. They need to purchase three copies. Again: copyright law is stupid. ??? I don't see why this is stupid. If you'd designed the world's greatest spork and were selling it commercially, would you be happy if a teacher got someone to scan and 3D print off their own copies rather than buy originals 'cos "It's for the kids"? I wouldn't, but I may just be tight! So technically, anyone who purchased a Sony MiniDisc (for example) back in the day then ripped their CD collection using Sony's own software to copy the music onto their Sony MiniDisc was in fact breaking the law? The same law that is meant to protect Sony? I guess that's why it never took off, because they could sue you for copyright infrigement by using their product Depends where you were. True in the UK, but IIRC the US (bizarrely given the sway the *AA's have) has always had a "fair use" exemption.
sonofsanta Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 So technically, anyone who purchased a Sony MiniDisc (for example) back in the day then ripped their CD collection using Sony's own software to copy the music onto their Sony MiniDisc was in fact breaking the law? The same law that is meant to protect Sony? I guess that's why it never took off, because they could sue you for copyright infrigement by using their product And the chances are the music you were ripping was published by Sony as well ??? I don't see why this is stupid. If you'd designed the world's greatest spork and were selling it commercially, would you be happy if a teacher got someone to scan and 3D print off their own copies rather than buy originals 'cos "It's for the kids"? I wouldn't, but I may just be tight! That "stupid" comment was aimed more at the paragraph before, about the four licences you need to watch a film. Joke was somewhat undermined/muddied by my decision to then add in extra factual content, thus undoing the sarcastic content. Alas!
matt40k Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 That "stupid" comment was aimed more at the paragraph before, about the four licences you need to watch a film. Joke was somewhat undermined/muddied by my decision to then add in extra factual content, thus undoing the sarcastic content. Alas! Is that because you didn't have a sarcastic content license for EduGeek?
sonofsanta Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Is that because you didn't have a sarcastic content license for EduGeek? Pfft. Like I need one. I'm hardly ever sarcastic.
matt40k Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 You'll make me mega rich... if I could ever get my sarcasm detector service to stop exploding
X-13 Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 You'll make me mega rich... if I could ever get my sarcasm detector service to stop exploding Are you the NSA? http://www.cnet.com/news/secret-service-seeks-sarcasm-detecting-software/
matt40k Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 ROFL!! Sure that's easy for them to do!!! If (($nationality == "British") and ($baseThread < 100)) Then sarcasm = true You can post my cheque when you crawl this NSA
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