Anyone buy Apple machines just for the build quality?

[synaesthesia]

That whole infographic thing is correct but the monitor thing is a little OTT. Yes, you can easily double the price for another 6".

 

By the way, you've clearly never seen any of the older Gateway PC's. If you call a Mac a tank, then those old gateways would have been tank busters.

[seawolf]

I'm actually getting tempted to get a Mac after reading this. Don't get me wrong, I love my Windows PC and it'll always be no1, but its tempting me. Can't decide if I should get a MacBook Air or a Mac Mini - the mini has the upgradable RAM, it's just the whole monitor issue. Urks me the new laptops don't even allow you to upgrade the RAM, just seems insane!

 

Yes, the lack of an easy* RAM upgrade on the MBA and rMBP is annoying. At least the upgrade cost for RAM is more reasonable than it used to be. The Mac Mini is a great little unit. You can upgrade the drive and even install a second drive in them with a bit of patience and skill - I've upgraded over 30 myself.

 

*The RAM can actually be upgraded, but only with great skill and some definite risk. Not recommended.

[featured_spectre]

Yes, Mac Pros have always been expensive, but there are a few reasons for that and a few things that make this (VERY dated, Circa 2010 at best) analysis overly simplistic and actually pointless.

I agree, it is overly simplistic, but it was aimed at making people think about their purchase more than anything else.

 

1. The Mac Pro has one of the best designed and solidly built cases of any desktop computer ever made. It's a tank with very nice drive caddies, easy to add extra cards, drives, and RAM and a very effective, very quiet fan. It's also very nice looking.

Going to have to say no here. I have had an alienware which took a literal beating when I moved house from the UK to Belize and then 6 months later back to the UK, and barely a scratch or a dent on it (that said, Alienware is the Windows Equivalent to a Mac, and I was a teenager at the time).

 

2. ECC RAM is server-grade and not cheap. Xeon processors aren't cheap, especially when the Nehelem was just released. Who ever upgrades RAM from the manufacturer anyway when it's as easy to upgrade as it is in the Mac Pro?

No argument about ECC Ram and Xeon Processors, but this machine is more server than it is a desktop PC, and they're branding it a desktop PC. If you took a look at the specs without knowing the maker, you would have probably said it was a server than a desktop.

 

3. Who buys 4 HDDs from the computer manufacturer unless it's for a server, SAN, or high-end NAS? It's always cheaper somewhere else. And it only takes a few minutes to install drives in the drive caddies in a Mac Pro.

Yes it is cheaper elsewhere, I agree. It also only took seconds to install HDDs in my alienware and in my current case, literally unplug sata cable and power cable and slide out, no need for screwing in etc.

 

4. Complaining about a small price premium over the best retail price available (or vs used GPUs no less) for GPUs, on a $3,000+ computer - give me a break. But, hey the author of this comparison is in luck now because they can save $2,000 off the retail price for the 2 GPUs offered in the new Mac Pro...

Got nothing on this, the guy was being a bit of an idiot comparing to 2nd hand cards, no doubt. But even brand new cards, they were using dated and rebranded old ones at the time of this picture creation.

 

5. The Mac Pro lasts for eons, as it should for the price. The build quality is absolutely outstanding on them and I (or companies I have managed them for) have owned 12 PowerMac G5s and Intel Mac Pros since 2006. Each one lasted 8-9 years before I sold them or gave them away in the end. Only one had a hardware failure of any kind and that was in a G5 model that had the power supply go after 5 years. Repaired it and sold it 3 years later still going string. I have two early 2010 models that have not had a single problem and I expect they won't until I retire them in 2 years or so.

Got no issue on the longevity of SOME macs, I've said previously I have had a few, some were great, some not so great. Much of a muchness, they had hardware failures as any machine would.

 

So, yes you do pay a premium for a Mac Pro, but this is one case where you do get what you pay for. The new Mac Pro appears to make that case more than any Mac Pro before it too.

There is paying a premium, and then there is being ridiculous. Apple were grossly overcharging for office software done by MS (Mac versions of it in my local PC world are the same price as PC versions). One option they don't have on there, but they do resell is adobe creative suite. The Apple store in Milton Keynes (nearest apple store) and the Apple Premium reseller store (StormFront) in Luton (nearest reseller, not actual Apple store) wanted nearly £2000 (MK) and £1700 (Luton) for the package when adobe offer it out for £1200. Talk about a high priced mark up!

[matt40k]

Get a Mac Mini, Direct connect to your TV using HDMI and then use your smartphone and the RemoteMouse app for control (or get the bluetooth keyboard and trackpad). They're great for a media hub, and just all round lovely really.

 

I'm clearly in the wrong job, cost of Mac Mini - £500, cost of RaspBerry Pi - £30, Cost of Google thingy - £30. Yer, not sure I have the kinda money to waste on a media centre lol. Still tempted tho, certain things tend to be Mac-centric, I'm not saying the Windows version is difficult, it's just some things are not always as refined, that's all. Plus I can say I'm educating my son in all things non-MS

 

*The RAM can actually be upgraded, but only with great skill and some definite risk. Not recommended.

 

I've done one before, Intel Solo, and that was ok, bit of a faff, but I was under the impression the new one you just turn the bottom to open it then the RAM slots are right there - HDD is a bit of pain.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

 

No argument about ECC Ram and Xeon Processors, but this machine is more server than it is a desktop PC, and they're branding it a desktop PC. If you took a look at the specs without knowing the maker, you would have probably said it was a server than a desktop.

 

Just because the architecture is similar to the server doesn't mean a thing. It's being sold as a workstation class desktop, and all OEMs sell similar specs. HP, Dell, Lenovo, all sell the same machines. they're aimed at professionals who need high compute and graphical power. Apple never branded this as a consumer desktop, it's always been for professionals.

 

I'd also like to point out that I specced a HP Z820 up and got a price of over $80,000! Price is always relative.

Edited April 16, 2014 by ICTDirect_Dave

[ICTDirect_Dave]

I'm clearly in the wrong job, cost of Mac Mini - £500, cost of RaspBerry Pi - £30, Cost of Google thingy - £30. Yer, not sure I have the kinda money to waste on a media centre lol. Still tempted tho, certain things tend to be Mac-centric, I'm not saying the Windows version is difficult, it's just some things are not always as refined, that's all. Plus I can say I'm educating my son in all things non-MS

 

Just suggesting that if you're planning on getting one anyway, that it's a useful additional use for it I'd never buy one purely for that purpose.

[featured_spectre]

Just because the architecture is similar to the server doesn't mean a thing. It's being sold as a workstation class desktop, and all OEMs sell similar specs. HP, Dell, Lenovo, all sell the same machines. they're aimed at professionals who need high compute and graphical power. Apple never branded this as a consumer desktop, it's always been for professionals.

 

I'd also like to point out that I specced a HP Z820 up and got a price of over $80,000! Price is always relative.

 

I stand corrected.

[mac_shinobi]

I stand corrected.

 

I'm sitting down corrected :-)

[SYNACK]

Yes, I'd be able to upgrade the CPUs, RAM etc to whatever the motherboard supports but I could do that with a Mac Pro.

 

Not any more, they solder them in to the new rubbish tins.

[Norphy]

No they don't

 

Socketed CPU, standard DIMMs and a removable SSD

 

http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/RtFlKRIVD1AnbWMo.huge

[matt40k]

I think he meant MacBook Pro, rather then the Mac Pro.

[seawolf]

I've done one before, Intel Solo, and that was ok, bit of a faff, but I was under the impression the new one you just turn the bottom to open it then the RAM slots are right there - HDD is a bit of pain.

 

I meant the rMBP and MBA. You would need to have knowledge in Micro/Miniature Solder Repair and the right equipment to replace the RAM in these.

 

The Mac Mini takes seconds to change RAM.

[Arthur]

it is overly simplistic, but it was aimed at making people think about their purchase more than anything else.

That infographic is not overly simplistic. It's flat out wrong because the idiot who created it is NOT doing a like-for-like comparison (as explained previously when you posted the exact same infographic).

 

• www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/68820-apple-love-hate.html#post613456
  
• www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/68820-apple-love-hate-5.html#post617091
  

 

Alienware is the Windows equivalent to a Mac

None of Alienware's computers have ever looked particularly Mac-like.

 

Sony VAIOs used to be the closest equivalent before other manufacturers started copying the design of the MacBook Pro and MacBook Air with their Ultrabooks. Apple was even going to license OS X exclusively to Sony at one point so you would have been able to buy a Mac from Apple or Sony if things had turned out differently.

[synaesthesia]

The moment anyone starts getting into looks is the moment you know Apple are winning in the "look good in spite of lifespan/functionality/reliability) stakes.

[featured_spectre]

None of Alienware's computers have ever looked particularly Mac-like.

 

I never said that they looked like Macs, I said they were the equivalent. Hardware which works well for a premium is the point I was driving at.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

That infographic is not overly simplistic. It's flat out wrong because the idiot who created it is NOT doing a like-for-like comparison (as explained previously when you posted the exact same infographic).

 

• www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/68820-apple-love-hate.html#post613456
  
• www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/68820-apple-love-hate-5.html#post617091
  

 

 

 

This is wayy wrong. The Z600 isn't the comparable machine to the mac pro, that's the Z800, they're the same size form factor & cost considerably more than a Z600 does!

 

I never said that they looked like Macs, I said they were the equivalent. Hardware which works well for a premium is the point I was driving at.

 

Alienware are not the direct comparison here. They're aimed at people who consider themselves to be hardcore gamers, but still want a laptop. They're not aimed directly to all consumers/business users.

Ultrabooks in general are the OEM answer to Macbooks I'd say. You get the thin, classy ones that compete with the macbook air, and the slightly bigger & more powerful ones that compete with the Pro. However they're all expensive!

[Arthur]

The moment anyone starts getting into looks is the moment you know Apple are winning in the "look good in spite of lifespan/functionality/reliability) stakes.

In terms of looks, Samsung's ATIV Book 9 Plus and Google's Chromebook Pixel look better than a MacBook IMO.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Call me cynical, but don't they look like they're heavily influenced by macbook design?

[Arthur]

The Z600 isn't the comparable machine to the mac pro, that's the Z800, they're the same size form factor & cost considerably more than a Z600 does!

The Z600 is a workstation that used the exact same processors that the Mac Pro did at the time?

 

The point of that comparison was to compare workstations with workstations in the same sort of price range, not expensive workstations with significantly cheaper computer parts that you buy from the likes of eBuyer and Scan. We all know OEMs like to charge ridiculous prices for parts. It's not just Apple that does this.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

While they might share CPUs that's not the only thing to consider here. the Mac pro was massive and offers great expandability, the Z600 does not, so you want to compare like for like with the Z800, which is HP's (and BMW's) very own attempt at a mac pro.

 

The Z600 has six dimm slots, only three per CPU, while the mac had four and the z800 has 6. Additionally the Z600 only has a 600W PSU, while the Z800 had 850 and the max had 950. Then there are drive bays. The mac natively has four hdd bays, so does the Z800, the Z600 has two, and you have to compromise the optical bays and purchase addons to get the extra space.

 

My Point is that if you're doing a comparison you need to compare like for like. Apple's entry into the workstation market has always been at the very top end, but you were comparing this with a mid range HP workstation.

[cpjitservices]

I've always wanted a MAC, one of those nice G5's would suit me fine.

 

Never really had experience of MAC, never had the chance - most people I Know use PC's, either Windows or Linux.

 

I'm running OSX Mavericks on a PC, this is purely for training purposes and works great. However I do like it's stability and ease of use and can definitely see why people go for MAC's.

 

I'm amazed at how fast it is too, it's pretty rapid - 4GB RAM isn't a lot these days either!

[Jwzg]

I've always wanted a MAC, one of those nice G5's would suit me fine.

 

Never really had experience of MAC, never had the chance - most people I Know use PC's, either Windows or Linux.

 

I'm running OSX Mavericks on a PC, this is purely for training purposes and works great. However I do like it's stability and ease of use and can definitely see why people go for MAC's.

 

I'm amazed at how fast it is too, it's pretty rapid - 4GB RAM isn't a lot these days either!

 

Ooooh, a Hackintosh.

[Bananas]

Before one of those lovely G5s turned up the wife was running Snow Leopard on a Q6600 was totally 100% stable

 

She wanted back onto apple hardware tho so meant downgrading CS again and going back to 10.5.8.

 

If you're careful in your choice of hardware OSx86 is perfectly stable not legal but stable.

 

As long as you stay away from the dual 2.5ghz G5s they're still brilliant machines, especially with an ssd drive plus shed loads of ram too.

 

I think the key thing is neither camp is going to be swayed by the other, for me healthy competition is a good thing drives improvements through etc.

 

My wife's cousin is an Apple freak I mean he's on Facebook all day slagging everything off except apple.

 

He was banging on about the Android vulnerability to Heartbleed but call him up on the stray line of code that screwed ssl on everything apple and he doesn't like it.

 

He bought 2 Samsung tabs just before Xmas when they were £79 and went mental that they didn't have kitkat on them.

 

Does make me laugh and that's always a good thing.

[rdk]

The trackpad on a mbp/Air is easily worth $300:o. Only trackpad on any laptop I've had that I could use properly instead of a mouse.

[SYNACK]

The trackpad on a mbp/Air is easily worth $300:o. Only trackpad on any laptop I've had that I could use properly instead of a mouse.

 

Only worth it if you cant use a standard touchpad, I manage fine on my hp so $300 is a lot for something I can already do. I have used a MacBook touchpad to for comparison before you ask.