Strike Day

[zag]

Been in this job 10 years now and seen many "strikes" over the years both with Conservative and Labour Governments.

 

I still have no idea what the teachers actually want, or are trying to achieve!

[StevieM]

My major problem with the strike is that the NUT are playing the "poor teachers" card. Underpaid, overworked and not respected.

 

As a member of support staff in a school in the past I've also been underpaid, overworked and not even given token respect by teaching colleagues. If they think they have it bad, I wonder how they view TAs and the lower graded support staff?

 

I'm lucky in my current school. I am paid well and respected, but we've all worked in schools where teaching staff have considered us to be something they've stepped in.

 

To be fair, the the last time I was on strike with the NUT (November 2011) the focus wasn't just on teachers' pay and conditions but the whole of the public sector. We were joined by support staff from the likes of Unison who are facing many of the same issues, including pay, pensions and working conditions. This time it was just the NUT (as far as I'm aware) who are, as their name suggests, a union for teachers. Of course they will be pushing their own agenda. This doesn't mean that they don't think that others are being hard done by, too.

 

While I appreciate your point that, in some schools, support staff may be looked down on by some teachers as second-class (or even lower) citizens, the same can apply to teaching staff by heads and SMTs. Over the years, I have been employed as a care assistant in a special needs school, a teaching assistant, a full-time class teacher and supply teacher in primary schools, an education support assistant and a lecturer in FE before my current role as ICT technician. I can honestly say, the ONLY time I have ever been treated badly was when I was a full-time class teacher.

[zag]

To be fair, the the last time I was on strike with the NUT (November 2011) the focus wasn't just on teachers' pay and conditions but the whole of the public sector. We were joined by support staff from the likes of Unison who are facing many of the same issues, including pay, pensions and working conditions.

 

Just out of interest, did the last strike achieve your aims?

[Garacesh]

Cameron's big society at work I guess.

Don't kid yourself. This was happening when Labour were in power, too.

[StevieM]

Just out of interest, did the last strike achieve your aims?

 

Unfortunately not. If they had, you'd know because you would be reaping the benefits too.

[mthomas08]

Unfortunately not. If they had, you'd know because you would be reaping the benefits too.

 

We would? what benefits is this?

Better pay? Better respect? Better treatment?

 

Not asking that in the mean way but when ever some one says we too would get benefits I always ask, what benefits exactly. Worked in Education a long time at different Schools and the same problems have always existed its just a question of how severe and those problems have had little to do with the Government.

[featured_spectre]

Same, Facebook is having a field day though with Teachers posting all day about how hard their job is etc etc etc (at previous job).

 

There are times when I want to at the end of the day post something but I am holding back.

 

Why hold back, go nuts and explain your view!

[zag]

I don't really believe in strikes.. I believe that if you are good enough at something you will be rewarded.

 

Trying to improve things on mass, with no regard for quality of work seems strange to me.

 

At the end of the day, if teachers don't like their pay and conditions, then they can move into private sector teaching.

[StevieM]

We would? what benefits is this?

Better pay? Better respect? Better treatment?

 

Not asking that in the mean way but when ever some one says we too would get benefits I always ask, what benefits exactly. Worked in Education a long time at different Schools and the same problems have always existed its just a question of how severe and those problems have had little to do with the Government.

 

Better pay? Yes! The indefinite 1% limit on pay increases (pay cuts in real terms) for public sector workers would have been removed.

Better respect? Better treatment? Yes! From the powers-that-be, at least. For example, we wouldn't be having our pension funds reduced while our contributions are being increased. Nor would we have to work until we are 68 in order to qualify for this reduced pension.

 

These are the issues that we (all unions involved) were striking about. Problems that occur at school level should be taken up with the head, SMT and governors - with the involvement of unions if necessary, but are rarely causes for strike action.

[StevieM]

I don't really believe in strikes.

Nor do I, in general, which is why I moved from the NUT to Voice - a union that doesn't strike. However, I DO believe in a person's RIGHT to strike.

 

I believe that if you are good enough at something you will be rewarded.

If only this were true, then no-one on this forum would ever need complain about being disrespected, undervalued, etc. again. Unless, of course, we're all rubbish at our jobs.*

 

Trying to improve things on mass, with no regard for quality of work seems strange to me.

Unless, of course, you are fighting against things that are being imposed upon you that you believe will actually reduce the quality of your work.

 

At the end of the day, if teachers don't like their pay and conditions, then they can move into private sector teaching.

As can technicians move into private sector teching.

 

On a serious note, this is another area of concern for public sector educators. The move towards academies and free schools moves the focus away from providing quality education to making a profit for sponsors and investors.

 

*This is NOT a dig at anyone who has ever posted on this forum about how they have been treated. Just in case anybody reads it the wrong way.

[mthomas08]

As can technicians move into private sector teching.

 

Thing is though, a lot do and because they do some Schools struggle for years to pick up the mess left behind or they employ some one who is fresh out of College and has some good skills but may lack the overall skills/experience needed.

 

As an Technician you can deal with the kind of work ranging from PC/Laptop support to networking, servers and budget planning.

 

If things fall apart the School wont take responsibility they will simply look at the IT Staff and blame them. Where as with Teachers they tend to go out of their way to improve the Teachers ability or give TA support and even College Teams support. Where as the IT Staff will be pretty much expected to "Shut up and get it fixed".

 

At the end of the day it doesn't fix the IT System and for Schools like us that rely heavily on IT the kids education is suffering for it. Luckily enough the Head here is seriously willing to listen and at every meeting/month passes I feel like we are getting some where. Yet as discussed in other posts, Union help barely exists for Support Staff but that's a whole different ball game.

[StevieM]

As I said before, that's down to individual school management and it can apply to teachers as well as support staff. I really had a hard time from my head when I was a teacher. There is only a certain amount of being told how useless you are before you start to believe it, so I can empathise with those who are downtrodden in their schools.

 

Back to the topic of striking and unions, if you're not in a union already, @mthomas08, I seriously suggest you start looking into it. Voice, Unison, Unite, GMB and others all cater for support staff in education. If you don't agree with striking, then Voice is the obvious choice. PM me if you'd like more details.

 

Now I really need to get on with my work.

[TechMonkey]

At the end of the day, if teachers don't like their pay and conditions, then they can move into private sector teaching.

 

Ha, don't believe that it is all rosy there!!

[featured_spectre]

Teachers complaining about Pay - uhh, sure! Lets go with this. I taught for a year, I taught IT because the school couldn't find anyone with any knowledge of the subject matter to fill the gap when the DH left, so I was asked to do it (and given the Pro Rata rate for an NQT wage for the hours I taught, not the hours put into the work)...The NQT wage was higher than what I was on at the time. In this time, I taught IT, not a tough subject, but did require a some prep (averaging 1 hour for each year group per week), some marking of work as I would set homework (around 2 hours per year group). so I was putting in 12 hours a week plus 8 hours of lesson time a week. I was doing this, ON TOP of the NM work with little to no thanks by anyone.

 

Now, NQTs get £22k (rounded to nearest £1k). Within 5 years, they get £31k. No other job, anywhere on the market, offers this sort of salary progression. I couldn't find a single one that was willing to offer you a boost of nearly 10% per year for the first 5 years. Not even bankers get that sort of wage increase (they get bonuses, but not wage increases factoring into a 50% increase over 5 years)

 

Factor in teachers get a mandatory wage increase of 1% per year + cost of living increases...this nets to be around about the 4% mark per year. Again, no job I know offers that kind of wage increase (FYI - I checked with 4 different teachers I still am in contact with, who all said that's around what they get per year...all 4 are in different schools)

 

Now additional duties - Well I had to do lunch duties 3 times a week as part of my contract, non-negotiable, but the perk there was that I got free lunch every day. Teachers where I worked, got an additional 1.5 hours pay for each day they did despite the lunch break being 1 hour. 1 teacher had signed up for every day, meaning he got an additional days pay per week, or an additional 1.7 months pay per year. According to the teachers that moved schools, that seems pretty much the norm that they will sign up for as many as possible to increase their wages.

 

Being a Deputy HoD, got them an additional £2.5k - £6k per year, and being a HoD got them an additional £7.3k - £12.1k per year, depending on how long they've been in the role. If you have SEN duties as well, thats a further £2k-£3k. So a teacher (not in the leadership group) but with some additional duties can get between £33k-45k a year.

 

So, pay wise, lets say they do 5 days a month for lunch, so an extra days pay per month...which would be 12 days extra pay a year.

 

At £31k a year, they're doing better than 55% of the UK working population in terms of wages, Before hitting Senior Leadership, they can pull in £31k (5 year NQT period ending) + £2.5k (DHoD) = £33.5k. Already they're doing better than 60% of the working force of the country. Factor in if they become a HOD it will increase to £38k which will put them at better than 63% of the work force.

 

How can they say the pay they are given is poor?

 

As for conditions, thats a school thing. Some are great, some not so great. This I can't really comment on, some schools are horrendous, some are lovely. As for holidays, they get 13 weeks a year, plus 4 weeks which can be taken term time (well the teachers I spoke to do)...lets immediately strike 8 weeks of that for marking and planning (realistically)...they still get 9 weeks holiday a year. Not many professions can say that they get that!

 

Teachers may well work long hours during term time, but then again, Emergency Services and Armed Forces are on a permanent 24 hour call out should they be needed, and they have longer working hours, worse working conditions yet they are not allowed to strike because it would be illegal!

Edited March 27, 2014 by featured_spectre
fixed horrible spelling errors

[Garacesh]

-snip-

 

Teachers may well work long hours during term time, but then again, Emergency Services and Armed Forces are on a permanent 24 hour call out should they be needed, and they have longer working hours, worse working conditions yet they are not allowed to strike because it would be illegal!

Which is absolutely ridiculous, if you ask me.

Very well-written post, though. Nice to hear from someone who's been on both sides of the fence

Edited March 27, 2014 by Garacesh

[sparkeh]

@nephilim

That's a fine speech an' all but to boil down the grievences of teachers down to being miffed that they aren't paid enough is a gross misunderstanding of the situation (which a lot of people have and makes the Government rub their hands in glee).

 

The campaign isn't about teachers being poorly paid, the NUT is more concerned with the introduction of Performance Related Pay, and just to head off the "But we have that in the private sector why should teachers be different" whinge the evidence suggests that there is no link between PRP and improved educational standards. In fact the link appears to be between well paid teaching staff who are afforded a high status in society (source: Does Performance-Based Pay Improve Teaching? - Papers - OECD iLibrary).

 

Another issue is workload and pension changes.

[sparkeh]

Which is absolutely ridiculous, if you ask me.

Very well-written post, though. Nice to hear from someone who's been on both sides of the fence

@Garacesh Just to be clear, your post quoted me as the author of that post. I wasn't, it was in fact @nephilim

[Garacesh]

@sparkeh Urgh, sorry, it's this stupid thing where threads won't forget what multi-quotes I've ticked. So I just deleted everything up to the first QUOTE tag and left the rest as-was. Muh-bad.

 

Anyway, as I understand it yes, it's not "We're not getting paid enough". Performance Related Pay is downright ridiculous when you factor in that some staff (at least here) only have the 'naughty' classes. The classes of kids that don't want to learn and will obviously fail their GCSE's. So that's going to really screw them over (Or am I getting PRP mixed up? As always, please point out if I'm wrong)

 

The pensions adjustments are a crock, too. I'd certainly be annoyed if that happened to me (which, AFAIK, it hasn't)

[featured_spectre]

Pension changes I can understand, in fact, thankfully now the Auto Enrollment is in place, they're gonna be laughing. They get state pension, AE pension which goes to a private fund of their choosing, plus the government sector pension.

 

As for performance reviews...Lets look at Finland. They are classed as the worlds number 1 for teaching and education. Now they have a few factors here, homework - there is none. Children are encouraged to learn what they want to learn outside of the basics of Native Language, Maths, Science and IT, so if you liked music and didn't like history, you spent more time focusing on music than history. This aids the childrens development and is proven, if they like something, they're more willing to learn. Add on top, to become a teacher in Finland, you need a minimum of a Masters Degree, and preferred to have a PhD. You can then apply, and of the applicants, only 10% are successful. From there, they go through a further years training on top.

 

The average teacher wage in Finland is almost double what it is in the UK for a QTS teacher, but the results that Finland get reflect that the teachers have earned this. They have 100% literacy of all children in Finland by the age of 16, 97.8% IT, science and maths at grade B and above (including B+, A-, A, and A+). And for the subjects the children choose to learn after this, they have 95% at Grade B and above, 99.2% at Grade C and above.

 

Teachers in Finland are on a yearly review, if they don't meet the standards for 2 years in a row, they are banned from teaching for life in Finland.

 

*edit*

 

If the teachers don't meet the standards 3 times in a 10 year period, they are also banned from teaching for life.

Edited March 27, 2014 by featured_spectre

[zag]

Teachers in Finland are on a yearly review, if they don't meet the standards for 2 years in a row, they are banned from teaching for life in Finland.

 

Haha love it!

[featured_spectre]

I will add, I've been on both sides of the fence before, I can see where the teachers are coming from, but in many cases they bring it on themselves. Lots leave marking until the last minute, and therefore struggle. Many don't write reports when they need too, and then struggle to get things done in time. I've worked in 2 schools, where the teachers asked to have a parents evening pushed back by a week, because they didn't have enough time to write the reports for the children, despite knowing the date for 2 months, and there was less than 300 pupils in both schools (Middle school, not primary or secondary, year 5 - year 8)

[sparkeh]

Sure we can pick individual countries and say "Look they get good results and have performance related pay" but the point of the research linked above is that there is no link between PRP and achievement. There are high performing countries with PRD, high performing countries without PRD, low performing countries with PRP, low performing countries without PRP.

 

A look at the overall picture reveals no relationship between average student performance in a country

and the use of performance-based pay schemes

Source: http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/50328990.pdf

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Haha love it!

Such negativity

[localzuk]

Such negativity

 

Wanting teachers to be the best they can be, and preventing them from teaching if they simply aren't good enough is not negativity. It is ensuring kids don't get damaged by mediocrity.

 

That said, I'm not sure where I stand regarding teachers pensions. I believe the government have failed in their duty to do what's right by not getting all the facts before making changes to things, but at the same time I also think striking is not the way forward with this. If the government have made claims about affordability without getting the numbers together beforehand, then that is the ideal situation for a judicial review I'd say!

[mthomas08]

@nephilim

 

I like you, your like me, you deal with facts and provide a ton of information. And what's even better - you actually bothered

[jinnantonnixx]

I remember reading and being impressed by the Finnish approach. however, there are many myths in circulation. Read the illuminating responses (by Finns) at the bottom of this article.

The Finland Phenomenon: Inside the World's Most Surprising School System - THE DAILY RIFF - Be Smarter. About Education.

Edited March 27, 2014 by jinnantonnixx