£3500 for 15 laptops

[projector1]

Sorry, I did mention both - I think that must of been because I 'wished' I had £4500, but unfortunately the figure is £3500 to play with.

 

Yeah, sorry - Windows XP Pro, Wireless ready and they MUST be brand new. Forgot to mention that.

 

I saw some for about £240 on Misco but they had Windows Vista and I don't want to use Vista in the school yet. The cheapest XP Pro was £300 which is about 67 over budget.

 

(all figures ex VAT)

 

Do you know if it is Window Vista Business, Ultimate or Enterprise Edition you can downgrade to Windows XP Pro for free?

 

i saw that too however where do they expect you to get the xp pro licence from? and as xp needs activating you simply cannot use a licence key from another pc!

[PeterW]

i saw that too however where do they expect you to get the xp pro licence from? and as xp needs activating you simply cannot use a licence key from another pc!

 

LOL unfortunatly thats exactly what you do, then you have to call the activation line go through all the automated options until you get to speak to a human and explain you have an OEM Vista Business Licence and they will provide you and activation code. Quite an annoyance if you have multiple systems.

[localzuk]

If you buy 15 laptops for £3500, you will end up buying new ones very soon to replace them - low price doesn't equal reliability or quality.

 

Battery life is going to be very poor on that sort of priced machine, you are not going to get the correct windows license that you need in school (unless you already have a Schools Agreement, in which case you can simply use that to fix that problem). You will also only get a 12 month warranty for that.

 

So, i'd be expecting to replace them after 12 months...

 

I'd find the best deal you can get at the moment with everything in good order (ie. good brand, wireless, windows xp pro/vista business, 3 year warranty) and provide that to them as the cheepest option you can get.

 

Having a look at the Dell Vostro 1000 that someone mentioned earlier - the cheapest option with XP Pro, 3 yr warranty and the better, 9 cell, battery etc... I got them to £348ea via the online configurator - so you'd probably be able to get them a bit cheaper (probably closer to £300 ea) if you give their education team a call. However, they only have Sempron 3500's in them, which were slow last year, let alone for the future.

[StewartKnight]

you might be able to get cheap laptops, but when all the keys are missing in 6 months time, you might find that they turn into expensive laptops. Far better to get desktops!

[dhicks]

> Windows XP Pro

> Wireless ready

> £233 (ex VAT) each

 

Those Asus / RM Eee PCs are £200 each. They don't come with Windows installed but they are seemingly /capable/ of running Windows, so you could buy a copy for each one. That'll cost more than £33 each, though.

 

If you can forget the whole Windows thing, you can have your laptops with money left over for the cabinet. Portable laptop cabinets are stunningly overpriced, and tend to have crummy little castor wheels that break far too easily. Buy a cabinet from a DIY shop, nail it to a sack-truck, problem solved.

 

Second hand might do it, but check the batteries - laptop batteries are classed as "consumables" by the second hand merchants I've known, expect them not to be able to hold a full capacity charge.

 

If you want to buy a Windows Vista laptop and then downgrade to Windows XP you'll need to buy a volume license from Microsoft. This will cost £50-ish per machine. We've just bought some Dell Vostro 1000 laptops which still have an option to come installed with Windows XP Pro.

 

--

David Hicks

[dhicks]

Another thought: depending on what you actually need to do with the machines, and space available and so on, you might do better with one of those tables that you can wheel into a classroom and unfold into a half-a-dozen PC workstation, complete with keyboards and screens.

 

--

David Hicks

[Horizon]

Hi,

is it actually possible to buy a laptop for £230 (you said you needed 15 for £3500) with all the software that you need?? Has your head not considered another way of buying them so you can have decent equipment?

[Guest kerrymoralee9280]

Again, it's all about money.

 

Here's the full scenario - to clear some questions because I forgot most of them hehe.

 

The head has found a fine and dandy space where she wants to place 15 computers (she specifically said laptops, but I'll leave it at computers). She wants 15 so that our current suite (of 15) increases to 30 and we can therefore fit a full class in at one time.

 

After looking at the space she has set aside (for a good 3 hours might I add), it's conclusive that laptops is the only way that we can get them all to fit. Not even all in one's would fit.

 

So, laptops in mind I instantly set a bench mark of £500 per machine (because I wanted those RM Mobile One's with the glass screens etc). To which she replied you can have £3500 to get it done (not in a nasty way, but in a "this is all I have got" way).

 

I realise laptops bring with them their limitations - like network speeds, but it also brings with it some advantages like not having to wire in another room.

 

The machine will be used mainly by year 5's and 6's and they really do have respect for the machines so I can't see them tearing them apart. We aren't using laptops because we need them to be mobile, but just to save space - therefore battery life is not a major thing as they will be plugged in 24/7 anyways.

 

I've got a quote coming back from Misco, and I'm really confident he will hit close to the spot. I will keep you all updated.

[dhicks]

> We aren't using laptops because we need them to be mobile, but just to

> save space

 

Buy second hand - Computer Resale in Cambridge have Windows XP Pro laptops available for £220 (and that includes VAT), I imagine the price is similar in other places. If the machines are static and have power plugged in then you can plug in network too.

 

--

David Hicks

[Guest kerrymoralee9280]

We can't plug in the network - as I've said that would require wiring. Wiring in an awkward place.

 

And as I've said - we don't want to buy second hand. It's one thing buying cheap brand new, but cheap second hand for a machine thats getting used everyday is not something we are prepared to do.

[Horizon]

How often are they going to be using them?

[Guest kerrymoralee9280]

There's a class on them every lesson of the day. That's from 9 through to half four

[plexer]

Surely the whole point if you buy second hand is that you can buy a machine that does everything you need that is possibly a better spec than you can buy new for less money?

 

If there isn't enough space then H&S comes into play as well have these aspects been considered?

 

If small enough desktops could be found why not run them with wireless cards?

 

Ben

[Horizon]

some schools have given their pupils laptops and got the parents to fund it for them- not quite sure what the requirements are for it though- quite a cool idea??

[Guest kerrymoralee9280]

Thanks Plexer, but I do understand the purpose of second hand gear - if it was for me, its a possibility. But its not, and its the heads choice. So first hand gear it is.

 

As for H+S, that's well beyond the point of this topic. But to answer the question - yes, it has been considered.

 

Desktops wouldn't fit, unless they were thin clients. And unfortunately that's another area we don't want to go down.

[plexer]

Ok in that case all I can say is good luck.

[pallen]

Have you got a school policy stating a min spec of computer in the school? I would be reluctant to be buying something you KNOW will not be up to the job. If this money is available now, is it also likely to be available next year too? Posssibility of leasing machines instead and get a better spec?

 

You have been asked to provide a price for cheap laptops, but like some others have said, it would also be usefull to provide a price for what YOU recommend. That way when they dont perform as well as the head hoped, you can cover yourself. And if they do peform well, you can take the credit for configuring everything so well

[Butuz]

To be honest Kerry your mind seems to be firmly made up no matter what we say.

 

TCO - Total Cost of Ownership, it is no managment babble buzzword - it is real life. When you buy cheap equipment that you know is not up to the job, you end up with higher TCO. It's garunteed. You / the head may think your saving money now, but it will cost your school more over the next 5 years than you will probably realise

 

Andrew

[enjay]

I agree with Tech_Guy and others who have suggested that you should spec up what you can get for £3500 and then price up what you would rather spend on 15 laptops and present both of those to the Head. If you present a good case, you might be able to convince them that wherever they got the £3.5k figure from, it just isn't appropriate for the requirement.

 

Suggest that they either up the funding available, or if this isn't possible, discuss getting 10 decent laptops which will fit the purpose intended rather than getting 15 very expensive paperweights.

 

When we first got our IWBs, I was given £5k for 2 boards. After doing some research, I found that boards plus PCs plus licences plus cabling etc would be more like £6.5k, so presented this back to the Governors. The meeting ended with them saying "here's £10k, get 3"!

 

Also, in a$$-covering mode, at least if they do over-rule you and make you buy 15 for £3.5k, you can at least say "I told you so" when, a year from now, you have 15 doorstops.

[dhicks]

> We can't plug in the network - as I've said that would require wiring.

> Wiring in an awkward place.

 

Do you mean it's awkward to get wiring from your main network to the place where you want to place the machines? If so, I can understand why you want to use wireless. It might be an idea to get a wireless-to-ethernet adapter, plug that into a switch, and then plug the machines into that. That should stop 15 machines all trying to compete for the same wireless connection and reduce packet collisions.

 

> And as I've said - we don't want to buy second hand.

 

Depends how you mean by "second hand". Larger companies often ditch their hardware after 3 years (something to do with being able to write assests off against tax, I understand). Other companies now exist that take that hardware, refurbish, test and garuntee it (generally /except/ the laptop batteries!), then sell it on. 3 year old hardware will run Windows XP just fine.

 

--

David Hicks

[contink]

I'd agree with most other people on this but especially with Nick...

 

The TCO aspect is a biggie and unless she can afford to do this all over again in a years time she's wasting the money they do have.

 

I'd definitely recommend, nay push hard for reduced number of machines to get reasonable spec' ones.