Want labour out? Please vote here

[mattx]

John Major was probably better remembered for his splitting image character then from being PM.

 

I thought he would be remembered for 'popping out for a Curry, sorry Currie'

[paulhyman]

mattx

don't know why he would be remembered for that.

you can give me a history lesson, i might understand then.

[Halfmad]

"Mrs Thatcher - MILK snatcher.

 

[ Too many young people on this forum I think to appreciate that ]"

 

I was milk monitor at school until she had her way :-(

 

the days of going to school and being given our minature GLASS milk bottles to drink from that had been outside, weren't cleaned and when you burst the foil top (best part) you found it was frozen solid in the winter

 

Great memories

[localzuk]

The problem is localzuk, not many people read the parties manifestos when they come out, or they just watch the news and get the 'WE NEED SOME VIEWERS HEADLINES' - or even worse read the toilet tabloids like the Daily Mail.

Talking of which a recent study was done on the Daily Mail - apparently if you wipe your bum with the Daily Mail, more sh1t comes off the paper.....

 

Exactly. Most people are quite happy to complain about things that the government do wrong, but when it comes to the election, they simply rely on what the Sun or News of the World told them to do... Makes a right mess of the democratic system if people can't be bothered to take an interest in their own well-being.

[mattx]

mattx

don't know why he would be remembered for that.

you can give me a history lesson, i might understand then.

 

You not heard of Edwina Currie ?

[paulhyman]

lol

 

oh i understand now.

[Guest Guest]

Exactly. Most people are quite happy to complain about things that the government do wrong, but when it comes to the election, they simply rely on what the Sun or News of the World told them to do... Makes a right mess of the democratic system if people can't be bothered to take an interest in their own well-being.

 

Im only old enough to have seen 2 elections and the manifestos. So far its 2 out of 2 for lies and bullshat.

 

When do polititions actually do as they say? Im yet to read or hear anything which isnt misleading.

 

Ill still read the manifestos, but i worry that there is actually little point of doing so and a pin the tail on the donkey politcal party would be a more appropriate way of voting.

[enjay]

I didn't vote for Gordon in the first place so i don't see why he should take over without winning a Election.

You didn't vote for Tony Blair either, so what's your point?

[mattx]

Im only old enough to have seen 2 elections and the manifestos.

 

So in contrast you have only seen one party in power. I grew up in Thatcher's Britain - nuff said.

 

I saw the selling of the family silver - [ Britain's industries ]

I saw the boom and bust economics

I saw Black Wednesday in which almost 4 Billion was spent trying to prop up the pound - and who was an advisor in that fiasco ? A certain David Cameron !!

I saw 6 million un-employed

I saw Coal miners loose their homes, their familys and lives just so the gov could save a few bob importing cheaper coal from abroad. In the end it more more expensive to pay the miners benifits than to close the pits.

I saw Keith Joseph screw up the education system.

I saw thatcher almost kill the NHS service by making one large paper chase and managment club

Want to know why the super bugs are such as issue in hospitals up and down the country ? Thatcher did away with in house cleaning for the hospitals - its all now contracted and of course the trusts go for the cheapest......Whats the saying about paying peanuts and getting monkeys ?

I saw VAT on fuel

 

I saw a great deal under the Tories and most of it was crap, lots of crapness now falls under 'New Labour' which is just as close to the Tories back in the 80's. Old Labour values have gone, Blair destoryed those but at the same time used them when he could just to get his way - like the 'block vote'

 

New Labour + The Tories are the same party - there is hardly any divide in their policies or ideas anymore.

If only the Lib Dems would buck up their ideas they may be a force to contend with but in all honesty they are happy just slagging off the other parties as they know they will never get in power.

 

At least you can go and vote in this country without fear of a gun being held at your head - we live in a democracy of sorts - not like many other countries in this evil world. / Rant over - time for lunch.

[paulhyman]

I voted for a party with who I thought had the best policies and had the strongest leadership, that is no longer the case.

That is my point.

 

If you was going to have a very important operation and the surgeon that you see before fills you with confidents and at the last minute after you have agreed for the op. They have to change the surgeon for some reason, with someone that has less experienced or someone you was not as confidents with, would you be happy ?

[PEO]

I would rather pull the pubes from my balls than vote for cameron

[Scruff]

Damn you lot.......I came here expecting a flame war

[Dos_Box]

Im only old enough to have seen 2 elections and the manifestos.

 

So in contrast you have only seen one party in power. I grew up in Thatcher's Britain - nuff said.

 

I saw the selling of the family silver - [ Britain's industries ]

I saw the boom and bust economics

I saw Black Wednesday in which almost 4 Billion was spent trying to prop up the pound - and who was an advisor in that fiasco ? A certain David Cameron !!

I saw 6 million un-employed

I saw Coal miners loose their homes, their familys and lives just so the gov could save a few bob importing cheaper coal from abroad. In the end it more more expensive to pay the miners benifits than to close the pits.

I saw Keith Joseph screw up the education system.

I saw thatcher almost kill the NHS service by making one large paper chase and managment club

Want to know why the super bugs are such as issue in hospitals up and down the country ? Thatcher did away with in house cleaning for the hospitals - its all now contracted and of course the trusts go for the cheapest......Whats the saying about paying peanuts and getting monkeys ?

I saw VAT on fuel

 

I saw a great deal under the Tories and most of it was crap, lots of crapness now falls under 'New Labour' which is just as close to the Tories back in the 80's. Old Labour values have gone, Blair destoryed those but at the same time used them when he could just to get his way - like the 'block vote'

 

New Labour + The Tories are the same party - there is hardly any divide in their policies or ideas anymore.

If only the Lib Dems would buck up their ideas they may be a force to contend with but in all honesty they are happy just slagging off the other parties as they know they will never get in power.

 

At least you can go and vote in this country without fear of a gun being held at your head - we live in a democracy of sorts - not like many other countries in this evil world. / Rant over - time for lunch.

 

By contrast I grew up in the 70s. I saw the electric getting switched off at 6pm at night, I saw mass strikes and a hell of a lot of poverty. Things are relitive. Things needed fixing, and yes, some of the solutions were wrong, but by the end of the 80's the UK was in a hell of a better position that it was then.

[Guest Guest]

My theory is Labour have had their chance. Gordon has had his chance. They have had the time now to put right any of the Tories mistakes, have they? No.

 

I didnt see the Tories in the 80s, all ive seen is Labour turn this country into a place for the scum, immigrants, and wendy wide legs to thrive.

Education is getting better in ways.

 

The whole "school experiance" is better than it was even when i was at school. But the overall achievement level has drops drastically in the same period, but has been covered up with statistics based on easy to pass exams. University is now a joke as anyone and everyone goes thus making any degrees achieved years ago, worth rather less.

 

The NHS is on its way out. NHS dentists are all but gone. Public transport is on its knees in most parts of the country. The housing market is unsustainable. Interest rates/banks/etc are unstable. Inflation has had a spin put on it. What industry we do have left is still in decline, not only due to factors such as china, but with labour allowing do-gooders have their way. Evil motorists are bum-raped at every turn.

 

I dont care who caused these problems anymore, Labour have had a bloody long time to put them right and thats all that matters *now*.

 

I dont care who gets in as long as it isnt labour. If that means voting for the Tories purerly because they are the only ones who stand a chance then so be it.

[TechMonkey]

 

New Labour + The Tories are the same party - there is hardly any divide in their policies or ideas anymore.

If only the Lib Dems would buck up their ideas they may be a force to contend with but in all honesty they are happy just slagging off the other parties as they know they will never get in power.

 

 

Can't remember which old timer it was but someone from the Tory old guard commented in an interview that he found it amusing that Labour were getting through stuff that the Tories had been beaten on and Labour were slipping through stuff that the Tories would never have attempted as they knew they would be lamblasted!

But as others have said most people vote on "that nice man on the TV, he looks like he'll do a good job" rather than what they have stated they will do. Which they never stick to either. People have got to that stage that they expect to be told what to vote, what do and what is happening, the best for them is a benign dictatorship! Democracy just doesn't seem to work anymore. I try and keep on top of these things & find it hard to see who is for what & they all end up saying they will do roughly the same anyway! You can see why people give up voting.

No idea who to vote for, Labour just seem a terrible option, Tory seem to have no substance, Libs I have no idea about anymore, Greens seem to get confused about anyother policies other than tranport and energy, UKIP worry me slightly and no loony raving party in my area!

 

Ohhh & has it been mentioned on here before about how many Loony party pledges have become real polocies? Shall have to dig up teh site.

[paulhyman]

here here j17sparky.

[Dos_Box]

I didn't vote for Gordon in the first place so i don't see why he should take over without winning a Election.

You didn't vote for Tony Blair either, so what's your point?

 

I think the point many have is that people voted for the Labour party, partly for Blair, and partly for the policies. Now Blair has gone and the old policies getting ripped to shreds are we now in the hands of a govt with a leader and policies nobody voted for?

[Guest Guest]

I didn't vote for Gordon in the first place so i don't see why he should take over without winning a Election.

You didn't vote for Tony Blair either, so what's your point?

 

I think the point many have is that people voted for the Labour party, partly for Blair, and partly for the policies. Now Blair has gone and the old policies getting ripped to shreds are we now in the hands of a govt with a leader and policies nobody voted for?

 

 

Exactly. In theory a party could be voted in on the back of a "Yes man" in leadership. Once the party is in power it could chuck the leader and any opposing members and simply make up their own policies.

 

Now call me daft but what exactly is the point in a party if each leaders/members policies are differant?

[broc]

Our political system is far from perfect, I think most would agree.

 

We do however have some choices, even if the main choice is a toss-up between a centre-right 'socialist' party or an even more centre-right 'conservative' party. You can choose to no-show at the ballot box, although in many cases this means that as a result some politicians (national and local) get elected by the minority of voters who turn out. We can also openly criticise our politicians and political system without fear of being locked up or worse.

 

You might want to reflect on what is happening in other countries around the world, one-party states, military juntas, civil war.... compared to this the UK suddenly seems not so bad despite the problems we seem to have with the NHS, Education, Crime etc etc.

[paulhyman]

Dos_Box

you are 100%

 

it is all well and good purely looking policies if the leader of the party is not the type of person that will carry them out. You need a leader that will be strong and bold (nothing like the england football manager).

 

we all know they lie and are only interested in lining their pockets in one form or another. but you have to vote for both the policies and the future PM and not just whoever from the party. if a party is in for 4 years why not just change it each year.

 

Cameron might not be the best choice but is Brown (might help if you look at your bank balance before you answer).

 

Before the PM changes there should be a vote.

[beeswax]

I would rather pull the pubes from my balls than vote for cameron

 

Er..I don't know how long it's been since you've had a look, but from where I'm sitting, it appears that the job has already been done.

[localzuk]

Hmm... The petition seems to be going well. I signed it a couple of hours ago, and the number of sigs has gone from ~8500 to ~10,500...

[mattx]

but by the end of the 80's the UK was in a hell of a better position that it was then.

 

Try telling that to a miner or someone who has just lost their house because of the boom and bust economics policies.

 

all ive seen is Labour turn this country into a place for the scum, immigrants, and wendy wide legs to thrive.

 

Errr no, thats all you have either read or seen on TV. If you look at actual stats - the amount of people leaving the country and people enterering the country [ legally ] is about the same.

The problem is the illegal entry into this country - which is a problem faced by most large rich countries.

 

interest rates/banks/etc are unstable.

 

Well are you going to blame the current party for that ? The first job Brown did was to hand control over BACK to the bank of England as the Tories made such a fcuk up over the economy.

 

Public transport is on its knees in most parts of the country.

 

Because Thatcher sold it all and privatised it !!!! Yet another Tory policy.

If Labour had any balls they would get it back.

 

What industry we do have left is still in decline,

 

Again because Thatcher sold the family silver !!! I don't suppose you even remember the trade deficit that happened because of yet another Tory policy ???

 

Evil motorists are bum-raped at every turn.

 

Again, another Tory fuel tax plan introduced by Kenneth Clarke back in 1994 I think which labour still go by.

[Guest Guest]

Excuse me sir. Did you go to school? Did you learn to read? Evidently you didnt. I suggest

 

http://www.penguin.com.au/covers-jpg/9780852852927.jpg

 

 

Errr no, thats all you have either read or seen on TV.

 

Just because your quite obviously too dense... oh forget it its like talking to a brick wall

[GrumbleDook]

I miss Screaming Lord Sutch with his inventive policies of making the European Butter Mountain into a ski resort, wheeling parliament around the UK so everyone got to see it and his famous slogan "Vote for Insanity - You know it makes sense!"

 

As for politics ... I have a few friends who are civil (and uncivil) servants ... and the general opinion is that the majority of the time it does not matter who you vote for, the Govt still gets in!

 

Both parties have good and bad points ... personally I tend to favour Tory but that is mainly because I still remember the tail end of the 70's as Maggie came to power. Lots of things improved, but she just went on a bitt too long.

 

John Major did as much for the economy as Gordon Brown has done but they both have made cock-ups and lied a lot too ... then again, isn't that part of their job description?

 

People also tend to forget that no matter what party is in most of the important committees are cross-party ... and this is where the balance of power is. These committees are not voted in, but chosen due to interest or expertise. *This* is one of the true benefits of our political structure, but it relies on no single party having an overwhelming presence in the House of Commons.

 

People also knock the House of Lords, usually because of the peerage system, but you will often find in here the true specialist knowledge that will rip apart poorly constructed laws and strategies and send them back. *This* is a big buffer for the political system in the UK and the vast majority of Peers at the moment tend to make their decisions based on facts rather than purely how they are pushed due to their political whips.