[sims] Is SOLUS 3 pretty much impossible to avoid at this stage?

[Sam_Brown]

Heard so many bad things about it over the years and dreading the day we need to (are forced) to move to it.

 

Is it pretty much a certainty that we're going to be forced to use it within the next 12 months or so because I'm really not looking forward to that day!

[smalls001]

I was told by an advisor for sims not to move to solus 3, as it doesn't work

[PhilNeal]

So tell me who that was!

[Sam_Brown]

Yeah I've been advised similar over the past year or so!

 

What was the reasoning behind moving to SOLUS 3 over say releasing SIMS Upgrades in an MSI format?

[sparkeh]

Yeah I've been advised similar over the past year or so!

 

What was the reasoning behind moving to SOLUS 3 over say releasing SIMS Upgrades in an MSI format?

There are plenty of threads on here discussing that but it always boil down to 'capita won't do it'

 

Though... do I remember @PhilNeal recently saying that it could be on the cards again? Or did I dream that in an upgrade induced fever sweat?

[sparkeh]

Ooh I found it: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/121734-solus3-playing-up-4.html#post1043938

On a slightly different tack, we are looking at MSI options for those that are technically able - it's not confirmed but I am pushing to make them available.

@PhilNeal I will personally drive over to Capita and kiss you if you make this happen*

 

 

 

*I will not drive over to Capita and kiss you

Edited September 12, 2013 by sparkeh

[synaesthesia]

I assume that would have been heard out of context - i.e. "I wouldn't use Solus 3-3.5 because it doesnt work on Server 2012/SQL 2012 yet" or similar.

 

3.6 works rather well.

[Rawns]

Ooh I found it: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/121734-solus3-playing-up-4.html#post1043938

@PhilNeal I will personally drive over to Capita and kiss you if you make this happen*

 

 

 

*I will not drive over to Capita and kiss you

 

With SOLUS3, I unfortunately doubt they will bother.

[sparkeh]

With SOLUS3, I unfortunately doubt they will bother.

That quote was from 15th August 2013 so maybe?

[Rawns]

That quote was from 15th August 2013 so maybe?

 

Dare I even hope...?!

[sparkeh]

Dare I even hope...?!

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeYq4FGhHuBxfzQ0YhwKKEEVUEUKtoaMOH_TRGzh1aUxE3s6tF

[TheCrust]

I assume that would have been heard out of context - i.e. "I wouldn't use Solus 3-3.5 because it doesnt work on Server 2012/SQL 2012 yet" or similar.

 

For me, taken out of context or not doesn't really matter - I've seen SOLUS3 and wasn't impressed. I've got SCCM to handle software deployment, update and management so why do I need another software distribution mechanism (along with the attendant bit of client software for every PC) when my existing one works perfectly well?

 

While I admit there will be organisations for whom it fits a need perfectly and who will welcome SOLUS3 i.e. LAs supporting countless primary schools, for me as an end consumer it feels like an unnecessary reinvention of the wheel and a bit like an attempt to overly complicate the plumbing.

[synaesthesia]

Arguing about something other than to Capita themselves is like piddling into the wind; you can avoid it by using solus 2 until it's discontinued or knocking up a workable (and wholly unssuported) method of doing it yourself. That's entirely possible of course, certainly with SCCM. So when S2 is ceased, are you going to stop updating in some sort of protest?

 

Re your comment regarding context, it was a directly reply to the comment "I was told by an advisor for sims not to move to solus 3, as it doesn't work" so yes, it does matter and nothing to do with you. I think many of us agree that an MSI solution would be better for us, that's not under discussion

[FishCustard]

For me, taken out of context or not doesn't really matter - I've seen SOLUS3 and wasn't impressed. I've got SCCM to handle software deployment, update and management so why do I need another software distribution mechanism (along with the attendant bit of client software for every PC) when my existing one works perfectly well?

 

This is basically my feeling on the subject as well. We use a PowerShell script to install and update SIMS. Shove a PC in the security group and it'll automatically install SIMS on next boot. When an update comes around, we change the version number in the script (to invalidate all existing installs) and the script blows away the existing SIMS install and runs the setups again. Schedule a reboot overnight after an upgrade and nobody will even know it's happened.

[TheCrust]

@synaesthesia We used SOLUS3 for about six months - had an update not applied correctly because of it, had to ring bedford countless times because of it. In the end it was jokingly known as the service desk ticket generation tool and we ditched it completely.

 

For us the product just did not work as intended, so the context makes absolutely no difference to me - I agree with the initial comment on the above basis - though perhaps I didn't quantify that in my earlier post.

 

I am really not looking forward to the day we absolutely have to reinstall it because there is so much negative baggage around our earlier experiences with it but if we have to go, we have to go.

Edited September 15, 2013 by TheCrust
spellung!

[nickbro]

Been using SOLUS3 for over a year now and no major issues. Got to remember to remove the client from SOLUS when I rebuild the pc before SOLUS gets reinstalled. I've had 3 database incompatible, which is down to those users not closing SIMS down when SOLUS tells them to. Copy the files from my pc to theirs fixes that problem and off they go again

[Sam_Brown]

One primary school I know recently had a new SIMS Server Installed and Capita insisted on sticking SOLUS 3 on it.

 

Had no end of issues during the first few weeks with it not working with CC4 \ Existing Installations of SIMS.

 

In the end they have a test machine which is the only one listed in SOLUS 3. This one gets all the updates and upgrades and then they just copy the whole SIMS folder to any other computer that needs it. Apparently it's a hell of a lot easier scripting deleting and copying over the entire SIMS.NET folder than it is getting SOLUS to work consistently on the entire network...

 

Not sure how many people would agree with this practice but aparently they've had no issues since doing it that way and the amount of time spent on upgrades not working is near enough zero now!

[matt40k]

I've got SCCM to handle software deployment, update and management so why do I need another software distribution mechanism

 

Use SCCM to deploy S3 agent, then let S3 worry about keeping SIMS etc up-to-date. Kinda like you would do with Chrome.

 

LAs supporting countless primary schools, for me as an end consumer it feels like an unnecessary reinvention of the wheel and a bit like an attempt to overly complicate the plumbing.

 

Yup, but we live in an imperfect world and licensing alone would be a nightmare to use a single tool like MDT\SCCM across all the schools.

[Sam_Brown]

^^^

Not sure if on purpose or not but you've missed off half of TheCrust's last paragraph which makes it looks like his comment applies to LAs!

 

Anyway my query would be how many people find S3 an improvement over S2. I always believed the general consensus was that it wasn't and the benefits were outweighed by the problems. Obviously they'll be the odd anecdotal evidence to the contrary that it works great but from my experience the overwhelming opinion is it's not worth the hassle. I'm willing to admit I may be well off and I haven't used it much myself. It's just all the schools I've had friends work at have had issues with it in some form of another over the years.

[Quackers]

What is Solus 3 trying to fix thats broken in Solus 2? I could be being thick here, but with Solus 2 the end user clicks SIMS.net and it upgrades then lets them in. Why change that?

[Simcfc73]

What is Solus 3 trying to fix thats broken in Solus 2? I could be being thick here, but with Solus 2 the end user clicks SIMS.net and it upgrades then lets them in. Why change that?

I think they wanted to be able to rollout mini patches and hotfixes more easily and streamline to upgrade process. Its pretty awful to be honest in our school, there is always clients that for some reason don't pick the update up but its my fault not Sims is the stock reply.

[Rawns]

No end of issues here for us here supporting schools. However due to the SOLUS2 cut-off deadline, we've no choice but to get it out there. With the SIMS Summer 2 upgrade, almost every "upgrade failure" call came from SOLUS3 sites. We had maybe two or three form SOLUS2 only sites.

 

What is Solus 3 trying to fix that's broken in Solus 2? I could be being thick here, but with Solus 2 the end user clicks SIMS.net and it upgrades then lets them in. Why change that?

 

SIMS Discover. SOLUS2 cannot handle upgrades of SIMS Discover. I think SOLUS3 was partially though up as a way to get Capita's flagship product (at the time) out in schools and upgraded. Of course, SIMS and FMS were both packaged into it, and SOLUS3 itself.

 

I think they wanted to be able to rollout mini patches and hotfixes more easily and streamline to upgrade process. Its pretty awful to be honest in our school, there is always clients that for some reason don't pick the update up but its my fault not Sims is the stock reply.

 

From an LA perspective, SOLUS3 is AWFUL for patches as there is no easy way to re-deploy the same patch twice. For example the classic 'Reindex database' patch that fixes most things. You release it to a school, if they have auto-deploy set up, it will get applied during the upgrade schedule. If they need that patch again later down the line, you have to manually connect up and reschedule a deployment of it. In SOLUS2, we just reauthorised in Schools Manager and job done.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Rawns

[PhilNeal]

Interestingly I was at the Midlands Support Team user group last week when one LA described how well SOLUS3 performed. They manage all their primary upgrades from a single instance of SOLUS3 with 98% success rate. Another LA reported that they'd put SOLUS3 into a Birmingham secondary school and were amazed at how efficient it was in finding and installing SIMS. A third LA had not had success.

 

Clearly there have been issues but I do believe we are close to having a system that can save enormous amounts of time for schools. Producing an MSI has not been ruled.

[matt40k]

Main reason techy folk should be embracing SOLUS3 is permissions, this means the segregation of the data manager and the network manager jobs. It means you can put your data manager in a box with only his toys and no-one else’s. With SOLUS3, the network manager makes sure SOLUS3 works and then the rest of SIMS is the Data managers’. Personally, I’d like this sooner, I know when I was a techy I got stitched up a few times. Basically the only people with admin rights should be techy people, not the network manager, it’s not that I don’t trust my old network manager, it’s just they’d rather not have that power, so when it came to running SOLUS2 to get a patch or do a upgrade, which needs admin rights, you’re stuck doing it. Now this is ok, but what happens when you’re expecting a release and you’ve got a patch as well, if you’re sensible you’ll go find the data manager and get them to confirm, but they normally are hiding so you get stuck between investigating what it actually does vs risk doing\not doing the release. Not sure about you, but I’d rather worry about where that missing stick of RAM has disappeared to then if our pastoral structure is horizontal or vertical or whatever rubbish you need to know to see if it’s going to fix something or break something. Still I guess if your data manager you might like having admin rights and if you’re a network manager you might find SIMS more interesting then resetting peoples passwords

 

Way I see it, if you’re fed up getting involved with SIMS upgrades, SOLUS3 is the way forward.

 

Vague definition of jobs:

Data Manager – person who makes schools MIS system work

Network Manager – person who makes the computers work

[Sam_Brown]

Way I see it, if you’re fed up getting involved with SIMS upgrades, SOLUS3 is the way forward.

 

If it works...