Programatic data extraction from SIMS.net Data Base

[NetworkGeezer]

People mentioned that you can script data extraction in CMIS.

 

I was wondering if it possible to do the same with SIMS.net

 

I've heard mention of a plug-in (business object?) to allow third-parties (e.g. BromCom) to connect to the SIMS db

 

Is it availible schools, preferably at no cost, for developing internal apps?

[mac_shinobi]

what format is the sims.net database ( I am guessing SQL and then ms access on the local client machines ? )

[kingswood]

I think it costs big bucks.

[webman]

You'll need a "developer's license", as capita calls it, which will set you back about £5,000. Even though it's the school's data stored on the school's hard disk.

[invasive]

You'll need a "developer's license", as capita calls it, which will set you back about £5,000. Even though it's the school's data stored on the school's hard disk.

 

It is but you would need to have access to Capita's twinkies and bits to make your little application do what you want it to.

 

Oooohhhh. That was my first post here.

 

[StArbiter]

I think you will find that any school can use the Third party Software development kit at no charge. This allows you to read dynamically read data from SIMS.net using the reporting engine and extended data dictionary. We have used it to populate our home grown systems and it works a treat. All that is required is you contact your local SIMS support team for a copy of the documentation.

[NetworkGeezer]

I think you will find that any school can use the Third party Software development kit at no charge. This allows you to read dynamically read data from SIMS.net using the reporting engine and extended data dictionary. We have used it to populate our home grown systems and it works a treat. All that is required is you contact your local SIMS support team for a copy of the documentation.

 

Local support unit? I wonder what the arrangements would be for a Capita directly supported school?

[StArbiter]

contact your account manager ?

[PhilNeal]

To expand slightly. If a company wants to interface to SIMS, we charge £5000 for a copy of SIMS so that they can develop their interfaces etc. A school with a licenced copy of SIMS can develop export routinues for their own use and can sell their work to others without any licencing fees from us. If a third party writes back to SIMS we do licence that on a per school basis - this is because any company that uses our Buiness Objects is supported by our helpdesk and this costs!

 

Your LA or SIMS Account Manager should be able to help.

[danIT]

Going right back to the start of the thread, how can you script data extraction from CMIS? Ive not found anything on this yet?

[webman]

Thanks Phil, that's good news.

 

A school with a licenced copy of SIMS can develop export routinues for their own use and can sell their work to others without any licencing fees from us.

 

What specifically would we need to ask for to go about doing this - the 'Third Party Software development kit' that was mentioned by StArbiter?

[PhilNeal]

Yes the Third Party SDK is the best tool.

[webman]

Thanks.

[NetworkGeezer]

Well I've managed to get hold of the 'SDK' and extract some data from the SIMS DB.

 

I wouldn't say it was really programatic extraction per se. The SDK doesn't give details of any lowel level SQL APIs. There's no access to the fabled 'Business Object'. There's no simple ActiveX object to tack your VBS scripts on to.

 

What you get are two command line tools. CommandReporter.exe which runs a report and outputs the data to the console or to a file and CommandReportImporter.exe which is used for importing report definitions.

 

In order to run the tools you need to supply a valid SIMS.net username and password in clear text.

 

The report to be run must be one either created by the user whose SIMS account will be used to run the commandReport tool or one imported using

commandReportImporter.

 

This means you can't use all the reports in the SIMS.net report GUI.

Bonkers! 8O

 

As mentioned above there is no RPC or COM based APIs. Everything is done by piping or file redirection. Whatever program you pipe to must be able to understand XML. The first 20 lines of the output is the XML schema and then followed by inidividual report records.

 

The SDK gives piping examples using C#, VB.Net and Delphi. I use the term piping loosely to mean passing data via standard output. What actually happens in these examples is that a subprocess is launched to run commandReporter.exe and the output is sucked into an XML file object in memory.

 

If you choose to redirect output to a file then you have a choice to output to CSV, XML and RTF. The output type must set in the report definition and not at run time.

 

In summary, we have progress of a sort. You won't have to start SIMS.net to produce a CSV for updating domain or VLE account. It's not as nice as having a COM object you can make things relatively automated by piping and file redirection.

[andrew.rose]

Going right back to the start of the thread, how can you script data extraction from CMIS? Ive not found anything on this yet?

 

If by scripting you mean SQL, then it's a simple matter of connecting to the database with your favorite programming language and firing SQL scripts at it. I've done this for over 6years, and have found it to be pretty easy to find your way around if you use the data transfer functionality in CMIS to export the entire database into csv files which you can then grep for what your looking for.

[jenny_urey]

We ae SIMS partners and as well as providing classroom management software, we also write extractors for various partners in education; what data do you want to generate? We may be able to help you. Mail me if you want further information... will help if i can.

 

Jenny

Training Officer

[webman]

@NetworkGeezer: That is what they call the SDK??? That's ridiculous. That's not an SDK, it's a (poor) data converter.

 

The cumerbsome command line report tool falls far short of 'adequate'.

 

we also write extractors for various partners in education

 

Are they free to schools?

[klawd]

If you want access to the SIMS database, then why not just query the SQL

database directly?

 

You don't require an SDK to do that.... just some SQL and programming knowledge. With a little time you can fabricate your own APIs to extract data how you want it.

 

Its your database, running on your server, do what you like with it!

[webman]

Apparently this violates the licence.

 

Its your database, running on your server, do what you like with it!

 

Exactly. If only Capita would realise this!

[PhilNeal]

Our stance on this is that tapping directly into SIMS tables is that it invalidates our warranty. Basically if you hack into tables and you mess things up we will charge for putting it right.

 

We provide the SDK which many people are happy with and we also support the use of our business objects. Your support unit would need to be involved if you take the BO route as they would need to support you.

[webman]

Thanks Phil. Is NetworkGeezer right in saying (previous page) that the SDK is basically CommandReporter.exe?

[klawd]

@PhilNeal

 

Yes, but if using the BO requires signing a NDA that includes some totally unreasonable clauses, where does that leave us?

 

Perhaps you could explain if we have been badly advised by our LA, who said we could aquire the BO but would have to sign a NDA that they sent to us from Capita.

 

We did not sign the NDA. We are however willing to negotiate a new NDA if this is an option.

 

Perhaps you could advise on the next steps?

[PhilNeal]

Yes the SDK is a command line reporter.

 

Klawd I'm happy to receive a PM or email from you to explain your concerns.

[dhicks]

I wish to have our SIMS data match up with our LDAP data. This involves extracting some data from SIMS. If I understand correctly, I can use the CommandReporter tool for free to extract XML data from SIMS. CommandReporter seemed to be already installed on my SIMS server, there was nothing to download or install. Other options exist (using SQL, some defined API) but involve license violations/NDAs/paying.

 

This XML tool works, but isn't an API. There's a bunch of us want the same thing, so let's just get on and write one - a simple API front end to the CommandReporter tool. I'd suggest something Windows-based that installs on the SIMS server and provides a bunch of REST function calls available over HTTP, then we can write a bunch of libraries for everyone's favourite languages to access that API.

 

Does every SIMS server have a web server (i.e. IIS) on it already? Would, therefore, ASP be the most appripriate thing to code the server-side part in? Or would it be better to provide a seperate minimal web server?

 

--

David Hicks

[webman]

Thanks for the confirmation Phil.

 

@dhicks: Yes from what I understand, commandreporter.exe is available in all SIMS workstation setups in the main SIMS .net directory.

 

The thing about this so-called SDK is that data is not available real-time. Reports have to be created within SIMS in advance of when you need the data. It must also be scheduled to run at intervals, and depending on your requirements, your application will probably have to parse the output of the "SDK" to get it into a format you can easily work with.

 

I do like the idea of getting data via REST/XMLRPC/SOAP; but I'm guessing all our data requirements differ so much it will be awkward developing a one-size-fits-all approach ourselves.

 

From a software development point of view it is a very cumbersome method of utilising the school's data in our own apps; almost worthy of WorseThanFailure, if only just for a CSV/XML export facility being called an SDK.