LosOjos

Well fair play to them for that, it's unlike Apple to be cheaper but credit where it's due! The original article that link is based on is interesting: http://www.futurelooks.com/new-apple-mac-pro-can-build-better-cheaper-pc-diy-style/3/ However, I wonder how it would stack up on UK prices? Historically, we've been ripped off over here paying the same in GBP as Americans pay in USD. If that remains the case, I suspect you could still build an equal to the Mac for less in this country at least.

If the £215k clone burger is anything to go by, It'll cost ya....

It'd also be your equal in every way. I wouldn't want to piss me off!

On a loosely related note: BBC News - Doctors implant lab-grown vagina So already scientists and surgeons are making use of the ability to grow cells (is this technically a form of cloning?) to vastly improve the quality of life for people suffering from various difficult ailments. They've actually manage to create tissue that was never there in the first place that is completely compatible with the host... amazing!

I can draw only one solid conclusion from those examples shots: the HTC One M8 camera sucks!

I see your point, but as we're talking about Einstein, I don't imagine "cheating God" would be a worry of his... then again, maybe the cloned Einstein would find religion, who knows!

He won't have "had his time on Earth", a clone is a totally separate being to the original, it doesn't share any memories or experiences, just DNA. The easiest way to visualize how a clone would work is to look at identical twins. They may look the same and share much of the same DNA (of course, a clone would share 100% of it's DNA), but they are still entirely separate people. Whether he would be driven insane by the knowledge that he is a clone is another matter...

I'm intrigued as to what possible opinion on the Apple/non-Apple debate you could hold that's not suitable for a public forum?

I do see what you're saying but I have to be honest, I love building a new machine. I like the process of putting together the dream machine, then gently whittling away at it until it's within my budget when I do build my own machines, I generally spend between £500 - £700 (tower only) and that will last me 5 years. Admittedly, by the end of that 5 years the PC is showing it's age when it comes to gaming, but I'm sure a Mac would too if you could get the games. Now there is a fact I simply cannot argue! The advantage of "the cult of Apple" is that people will sell their soul for one, so those that can't afford the latest model will happily pay close to 3/4 for the previous model. My own builds I tend to sell off the valuable parts (RAM, GPU) and put the rest in to my spares bin or reuse them in my next build (tower, PSU for example). When it comes to retaining value, I will admit Apple has the upper hand. Like I said, there may be better than Dell out there but the current models I have looked at are fantastic. I think Dell went through a bad patch where they tried to cut too many corners but have in recent years upped their game again. They're not cheap (by non-Apple standards!) but they are quality - at least at the top end. Some of their lower end machines are still iffy.

I've said multiple times, check out some of the higher end Dell machines. I dare say there are many others, I keep coming back to Dell because they are what I have seen and would buy if I wanted a laptop. Also, I've avoided childish remarks like "BS", I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

Did you read my whole post? The point I was making is you can't find a direct equivalent - nobody makes machines as relatively low specced as Apple in their respective price brackets. IME, higher end Dell are equally as well made in that price range but massively higher specced. I'm not saying Apple machines aren't well made, but at their price they're no better than any other high end non-Apple machine. Basically, my 'grief' is that the Apple build quality argument is flawed because people never factor in the cost. Yeah, an equally specced non-Apple device may not be as well made because it'll generally be at the mid-range end of the scale, but an equally priced machine will be as well made and have higher spec because in the non-Apple world, the price would put it on the high end of the scale. TL;DR - Apple products are generally not good VFM

Then I'd suggest you read up on it a bit more: Why Clone? The Benefits of Human Cloning (not saying I necessarily agree with everything proposed in either of those two links, but they'll give you an idea of the potential benefits of cloning)

I completely disagree - if you compare a MacBook Pro with it's equivalent, I don't think the MacBook Pro is "far superior" at all. Part of the problem is it's incredibly difficult to find an equivalent - equally specced non-Apple devices cost significantly less, as I have already pointed out, and their build quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, though I have to say the Dell machines, while not the cheapest, are beautifully made. Equally priced machines easily match the MacBook, if not exceed it, for build quality and have significantly higher spec components. So, if you buy Apple, buy because you want Mac OS, but drop the "build quality" card, it's no better than anything else in the same price range.

I wish all religious folk were as rational! OK, next question (I don't mean to pick on you!): if, through cloning, a cure for all cancer was found and then you or a loved one became ill, would you accept the treatment or deny it on religious grounds, knowing the alternative was death?

I'll try avoid descending in to an argument on religion as the thread is doomed from that point on but I will ask this: As you rightfully state, that is your view. If you and others like you disagree with cloning, does that mean that those of us who don't have a problem with it (at least not to the extent of "it should not be done, end of.") be deprived of the various potential medical benefits it could eventually lead to?

The problem with the "it's not natural" argument is, where do you draw the line and why? Is it natural for us to wear clothes? Is it natural for us to manufacture goods? Is it natural for us attend jobs for 37 hours a week? These are all mad man made concepts, so can any of those things be described as "natural"?

It's not really "printing a robot" is it? It's "printing the plan for the frame of a structure which can be assembled and have a micro-controller, sensors and motors attached to it". Though I admit, that title is a little less attention grabbing. EDIT: that came off quite arsey, sorry about that! I remember watching an episode of Tomorrow's World and they assured me that I would soon be printing my shopping from home! We're not quite there yet, but 3D printers are getting cheaper...

I think cloning the likes of Einstein would in itself be a fascinating experiment - obviously the clone will have none of Einstein's memories or share the same experiences, so would he still be a genius? Would he be able to intuitively understand the original's findings? Would he be able to expand on them? Or would he be an average Joe? Would knowing he's a clone drive him insane, or even the pressure of expectation? It's all very Sci-Fi!

Hmmm, Nigel Farage's is strange:

Has anything in your life not been at the extreme end of the scale lol? I failed two practicals when I was 17, one for cutting up a van (I had a row with the examiner over that, I didn't cut the van up at all, he was doing at least 20Mph over the speed limit and swerved around me to overtake - I hadn't even changed lane! grumble...). Second one I failed for not moving far enough over to the right when turning right at a cross junction. I'm still convinced to this day that my fails were nothing to do with my driving but they saw me, a 17 year old lad who'd only had 10 lessons before taking the test and thought they needed to knock the confidence out of me a bit. Understandable when you see all the boy racers around but irritating for those of us who aren't like that! I moved out of my mom's home shortly afterwards and have never had the money to take another test since!

One of the biggest problems facing Windows is down to a bad habit that Windows has encouraged for years: logging on as admin. So many problems can be either totally avoided or made incredibly simple to fix if you simply log in under a restricted account. My memory's not so great so this may have been working as far back as XP but certainly since Windows 7, you never need to login as an administrator, you simply provide the admin password when needed to perform admin tasks, just like you would on any *nix machine. IMO, Microsoft need to break this habit by having the Windows installation guide users through creating an admin account and password, then setting them up a limited account, rather than defaulting the first user to admin as it has done for far too long (forever?)

It's no secret: MacBook Pro - Buy MacBook Pro Notebook Computers with Free Shipping - Apple Store (UK) EDIT: to be fair, I have just noticed the HP is only a 1.6GHz i5 whereas the Macbook Pro is 2.6GHz, let me find a better comparison... EDIT2: Dell Inspiron 14 £650: http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-14-7437/pd?oc=cn74306&model_id=inspiron-14-7437 Still not really a fair comparison, the Dell screen is 1" bigger, it has 2GB extra RAM plus a SSD boot drive, but the processor is identical (I know which I'd buy!) The point is, you pay a premium for Apple and I'm not sure the extra cost equates to a significant enough increase in build quality.

To answer the OP, I have never yet found a use for an Apple product (with the exception of the old iPod, which I still have) that I have been able to justify the cost of. I don't buy laptops for personal use and I build my own PCs. I think the Apple "build quality" is nothing more than clever marketing - not saying they aren't well built, but you pay for that quality. More often than not, people don't compare like for like. For instance, the 13" Macbook Pro costs £1,000. The HP ProBook 430 G1, which is identical in spec apart from an ever so slightly larger screen, costs £635 on eBuyer at the moment (HP ProBook 430 G1 Laptop - Laptops | Ebuyer.com) For an extra £365, the Macbook had better have impeccable build quality!

I'll accept that malware exists (though if you have decent protection you'd have to be pretty damn unlucky to get infected by a day-0) on Windows and keep gaming

I managed some good timing last World Cup, got 10/1 on Germany to beat England - no more complex than that! Think the bookies had just got caught up in the excitement. Had to suppress my joy in the pub when Germany scored the winning penalty, knowing I had just made £100...