[1703, cu] Successfully deploying Start Menus in Windows 10 v1703

[sparkeh]

So after pulling my hair out trying to achieve this in earlier builds, it appears that v1703 brings stable Start Menu deployment. As there are numerous, disparate posts on this I thought I would share my method in case it helped anyone. This info was garnered from lots of members here (including @Arthur @thimon @Blue_Cookeh @win amoungst others) and a hell of a lot of reading about v1703

 

So, here's what I have learned:

1. Use v1703 - for me this is only build that I can get to work properly.
   
2. Don't use roaming profiles or redirected Start Menus (I know that some people report success with these but MS have stated that these are not supported with applying start layouts via gpo)
   
3. Modern apps that you decide to keep need to be referenced by the AppUserModelID attribute in the xml.
   
4. Apps that are installed before the first boot (eg during a SCCM deployment) can be referenced via the DesktopApplicationLinkPath attribute in the XML. Shortcuts need to be in the all users start menu located at %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs (I have a couple of bits of software that don't install their shortcut properly so I just created an msi to deploy after software installation to correct it).
   
5. Apps installed after first boot need to be referenced by their AppID in the DesktopApplicationID attribute in the xml. You can get a list of AppIDs by running the get-startapps powershell commands. This specially highlighted for v1703 by MS in one of their guides. When tested I found that contrary to the old problem of missing tiles, new tiles were added dynamically (ie there is a missing tile at logon which then is replaced by the correct tile as you look at it), this seems like a new feature, at least one that I didn't see before.
   
6. The DesktopApplicationID attribute can be used to reference web urls and other things such as shortcuts to mapped drives.
   
7. The limits stated by MS about the size of groups that you can create appears not to be correct as I have added more tiles than the stated limit. If you add more tiles you get a scrollable Start Menu as you still cannot set the size of the tile area, which is quite annoying.
   
8. Learning the structure of the xml file and editing it directly is easier than faffing around exporting a Start Menu (also the export command always output references to apps as DesktopApplicationLinkPath which you might need to edit anyway)
   

 

Using the above seems to deliver a stable and manageable Start Menu without the issues of missing tiles and borked menus that plagued previous build.

Here is an example of a simple Start Menu:

 

Here's some more reading:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/customize-windows-10-start-screens-by-using-group-policy

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windows-10-start-layout-options-and-policies

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/customize-and-export-start-layout

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/start-layout-xml-desktop <- good one to reading up on

[gaz350b]

Similar to you we manage both a redirected and all users startmenu. Any pinned items that need pinning we ensure are in the all users start menu.

 

Staff do not get a forced startmenu from group polic. they use the local machine layoutmodification.xml.

 

We only run 3 custom start menus at the moment through the use of device collections in sccm.but plan to add more for devices such as front of class desktops and special devices such as music rooms etc.

[CommodoreS]

It would be helpful to see the XML file that was used for the picture of the simple start menu example, to better understand the structure and editing of the XML file. I am not sure if you are legally allowed to post the XML file here please?

[Patrick]

Hi guys, we are struggling to get the start menu to redirect at all. We are doing it the traditional way, and when we join a windows 7 curric image to the new server 2016 setup we have, it picks up the start redirects fine. Our windows 10 image does not. Am i missing something fundamental on windows 10 with start menu redirects?

[AlBarratt]

Hi all,

I'm in a similar position, just moving to Windows 10. I'm trying/struggling to add a shortcut to users directory on the start menu. Is this possible? Or even to add File Explorer/This PC to it.

[Patrick]

Ok, so on my redirected start menu i can add shortcuts to programs or folders but not folders themselves, is that as expected? I'm just working out how to do the XML file as well, i built a start menu as i wanted, exported the XML via powershell, but i when i look at the XML file, is only contains tiles for edge, not Word and other items i had created tiles for, code is as follows:

 

[Arthur]

when I look at the XML file, it only contains tiles for edge, not Word and other items I had created tiles for

Did you run PowerShell as a different user? That could explain why you have tiles missing.

 

For example, if you ran PowerShell elevated as a different user the Export-StartLayout command won't pick up the changes that were made to the Start Menu as the other user.

[Patrick]

I did it as a member off staff and ran PowerHell under admin credentials. How should i do it? As a local admin? Really appreciate your reply! Thanks

[Arthur]

I did it as a member off staff and ran PowerHell under admin credentials.

That's probably why then.

 

Can your staff member run PowerShell under their own credentials or are they locked down? If the latter, try customizing the Start Menu as local admin and then do an Export-StartLayout as that user.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Arthur

[Patrick]

Thanks mate. I ran it as local admin and it exported ok...I think. We used to use roaming profiles for our staff, typically small primaries so it made sense. Everything major was just redirected, documents, downloads videos pictures etc. So now we are finding that roaming profiles break, the start menu can redirect fine then just break if i delete the local copy of the profile and log in again, i understand that this is what people have been saying. Whats the solution to this? What accounts do you guys use for staff? I plan to use mandatory profiles for pupils. Help is really appreciated it's driving me nuts!

[Michael]

I can't see how not using roaming or mandatory profiles are viable, bearing in mind said user (child or adult), could use a different machine every day.

[ass17]

We have done for years, and will continue to use super mandatory profiles. [emoji1303]

[sparkeh]

I can't see how not using roaming or mandatory profiles are viable, bearing in mind said user (child or adult), could use a different machine every day.

 

Local profiles have never been an issue for us.

[Arthur]

I can't see how not using roaming or mandatory profiles are viable

Roaming profiles are going to be deprecated soon(ish) and mandatory profiles are a pain to create due to the CopyProfile bugs in 1703 so that doesn't leave you with a lot of options.

 

bearing in mind said user (child or adult), could use a different machine every day.

Local profiles with folder redirection and UE-V are working okay for me (apart from a bug with the latter and Chrome).

 

Several other Edugeek's are using UE-V successfully too...

 

www.edugeek.net/forums/windows-10/181024-windows-10-profiles.html#post1553799

www.edugeek.net/forums/windows-10/181024-windows-10-profiles.html#post1557622

 

Local profiles have never been an issue for us.

Same here. IME they are less problematic then roaming or mandatory profiles.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Arthur

[Michael]

So how are you guys getting round the issue of profile creation every time on a new device? It's OK if said user logs onto a single device regularly.

[Michael]

Step 2 as described here is basically the equivalent of creating the Profiles$ share with special permissions, so UE-V data is still 'roaming' in that respect.

 

Also (what's unclear), how do you disable Microsoft Account settings synchronisation and roaming profiles?

 

How does this affect users who use cached credentials - working from home for example?

 

UE-V talks about applications, but what about users wanting to create printing profiles? This is typically saved to the roaming profile and not the user home directory.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Michael

[sparkeh]

So how are you guys getting round the issue of profile creation every time on a new device? It's OK if said user logs onto a single device regularly.

 

Sorry, what issue?

[sparkeh]

XML as requested

[Patrick]

Sorry, what issue?

I don't want to speak for him, but with a local profile on a new machine (bank of laptops etc) wouldn't it do the whole "Hi...setting things up" screen?

[sparkeh]

I don't want to speak for him, but with a local profile on a new machine (bank of laptops etc) wouldn't it do the whole "Hi...setting things up" screen?

Not if you disable it via GPO Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Logon > Show first sign-in animation

 

And with all the Modern Apps stripped out of the install.wim even the first login is pretty darn quick. Its never been an issue for us.

[Patrick]

Thank you for that! I'm a little rusty with local profiles on a domain, whats the rough set up procedure for them, is it a local path in the profile path in AD user preferences?

[Michael]

Not if you disable it via GPO Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Logon > Show first sign-in animation

 

And with all the Modern Apps stripped out of the install.wim even the first login is pretty darn quick. Its never been an issue for us.

 

That only hides the animation. It doesn't disable or change profile creation.

[sparkeh]

That only hides the animation. It doesn't disable or change profile creation.

Yeah, but profile creation on first login in only a few seconds slower than subsequent logins so not an issue (with Modern Apps removed - they have a big overhead).

[Michael]

I suspect in a latter/newer version of Windows 10 'real' profile removal will be possible, but as far as I can tell you can't block or stop the process be it local or roaming.

 

In my experience (as it currently stands), a typical mandatory profile for pupils allows them to login between 20 seconds and a minute max.

 

I think a lot of it comes from the speed of a network and speed of the computer - SSD vs. HDD which makes all the difference.

 

I'm pleased you've made huge steps to a native Start Menu setup though... but as I said in another discussion, it's just unfortunate it's taken Microsoft four Windows revisions to get it somewhere near working.

[gshaw]

So how are you guys getting round the issue of profile creation every time on a new device? It's OK if said user logs onto a single device regularly.

 

3000 machines, no one seems to care about getting a new local profile logging into a different machine. We only put Outlook on "staff" machines and use OWA in classrooms, avoids any cache download issues. We also run a DelProf2 script that's customised to remove student profiles after 7 days from classroom machines but leave staff ones intact on their office machines. Keeps the C: drive tidy and seems to be what MS have done with their "Shared PC" deployment method.

 

As for speed, on 1703 with a couple of tweaks left over from MDT deployment (animation disabled, DelayedDesktopSwitchTimeout set to 5 seconds) logon speeds are fine even on new users. Build 1607 and onwards was the big change there, prior to that logon times were pitiful and it seems MS did listen despite trying to tell me no-one else had the same issue

 

Documents etc. redirected and I'm using a hybrid approach on the Start Menu from here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/configuration/customize-and-export-start-layout

 

Office, Chrome and This PC pinned \ locked, the rest available to users to customise seems a nice middle ground. Just testing it at the moment.

 

but as I said in another discussion, it's just unfortunate it's taken Microsoft four Windows revisions to get it somewhere near working.

Yup the first releases were nowhere near good enough for deployment, anything prior to 1607 was pretty poor imo which is why we stuck with 7 until now whilst waiting for 10 to get up to scratch. The forthcoming OneDrive Files on Demand feature in Fall Creators Update will be a big win too, although ironically it's taken MS so long to sort it out the college may move to Google before we get to deploy it (!)

Edited August 16, 2017 by gshaw