To ipad or not to ipad

[JAB1a]

Hello,

The school currently has about 30 netbooks so an entire class can use them for cross-curriculum activities etc. The college near us held a training morning using ipads for the teachers.

 

The Head has now asked what type of tablet we should get?

 

I am very biased against Ipad and would go for a windows or android tablet anyday but I do not want to affect my work on a personal choice. My main fear with the ipads is that I would not be able to centraly control security/software/printers/logins with homefolders etc and that I would be tied into iTunes aswell.

 

Our system is all windows based on Windows XP/7/server, so my natural instinct would be go for a windows tablet and definutly now we have Windows 8.

 

What have other people gone for when it comes to Tablets?

Edited November 5, 2012 by JAB1a
spelling

[flyinghaggis]

We've been looking at devices for pupils to use but haven't really moved forward with the plans as we've been waiting for Windows 8 tablets to be released to see how they compared with the IOS/Android tablets.

 

From what I've seen so far some of the ASUS transformer sytle tablets with Windows 8 and an atom processor look like the way to go at the moment but I'll hold fire until reviews start to appear confirming the pricing and battery life.

 

Asus Vivo Tab review | Tablets Reviews | TechRadar

[SeanVin]

Here's My 2ps worth

 

iPads are great - I have one. Android is getting better all the time, my wife has a Galaxy S3 and is turning into a geek. However for use in a school a tablet need to be easily manageable, have direct access to shared folders, and connect to printers easily.

 

So I'm afraid for us Window 8 is the only option, however they will have to be the pro version; RT cannot join a Domain and so cannot be managed easily.

 

Sean

[arwen]

I dont see the point really in tablets, windows 8 will go on AD at least. If price is an issue with them then androids are fine.

[zag]

iPad blows the androids out of the water in a school environment.

 

So easy to manage and setup.

[CyberNerd]

iPad blows the androids out of the water in a school environment.

 

So easy to manage and setup.

 

Android 4.2 has multi user capabilities, policies distributed by Googls apps and Nexus 7 costs half that of an ipad. It hardly blows android out of the water.

[JAB1a]

@zag, thanks for the input, so to continue what you are saying, could I say Windows 8 tablet will blow ipad out of the water in a school environment then? or are you ipad all the way?

 

can you do the things I asked for in the Post#1 with an ipad? (centraly control security/software/printers/logins with homefolders etc) or do you use them in a different way? say just for internet research maybe...

[zag]

@zag, thanks for the input, so to continue what you are saying, could I say Windows 8 tablet will blow ipad out of the water in a school environment then? or are you ipad all the way?

 

can you do the things I asked for in the Post#1 with an ipad? (centraly control security/software/printers/logins with homefolders etc) or do you use them in a different way? say just for internet research maybe...

 

No idea about windows 8, the last RC I tested was awful but I only tried it on my desktop so maybe not the best use scenario.

 

We use Ipads for students and staff totally differently, they are the next generation so try not to think of them as replacements for windows devices and the old ways of doing things.

 

You don't need printers really or to control the security, or logins, they skip the need for it. Thats why we found them so good.

 

Basically its a different way of working, but the teachers and staff in our school have taken to it like a duck to water.

 

EDIT: Just to say I felt exactly the same before i tested the devices and had the same questions. But once you use them, its a totally refreshing experience.

Edited November 5, 2012 by zag

[squeeky]

I know a place where they have been told that they are getting ipads. Anyway its the exact opposite. Cant easily get to file shares needs webdav. Cant print anything easily without complicated modification. For their setup they had no accountability for peoples actions online eg using filters because the proxy used active directory login and ntlm is not supported by apple properly. If you put the username and password in the network settings it works for safari but nothing else eg itunes etc can use those proxy settings. In an infrastructure with windows involved using it in the same way is nearly impossible. I beleive you can link 5 devices to itunes but then you have to manage those accounts and you have an issues with installing the same software on 5 devices (Illegal or not illegal?) Remember you only bought it once. Edited November 5, 2012 by squeeky

[squeeky]

Just one additional thing - I can say that I have seen some fabulous things on ipads. Just dont expect them to drop in to your exising infrastructure.

[SejN]

We use iPads at my school for Teachers and Students. I can tell you from first hand experience that if you use a proxy server then using the Apple 'Push' function won't work, as there is no option in OSX Server to bypass local addresses as in Windows when entering a proxy server address.

 

So if you change any policies or 'payload' as Apple call it you will have major problems Pushing those changes to the iDevices. Before we moved off our proxy server I used to have to recall all the iDevices, turn the proxy off and then the payload would be pushed from the Mac Mini Server - a right royal PITA if there are 64 devices and only 1 of you!!!

 

You can control/lockdown certain aspects of an iDevice with Profile Manager but if you wanted something more substantial you will be looking at a more robust MDM solution. As someone else mentioned above there is no Securus type app you can put on the iDevices so if kids want to Google Image Search 'naughty things' they can and will get away with it unless a teachers sees.

 

The pros and cons list is long - more cons that pros in my opnion.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Sej

[caffrey]

Glad I didn't make the decision to purchase our ipads, been nothing but a PITA! (Of course we've been left to try and sort them out...)

[DavidScott]

Glad I didn't make the decision to purchase our ipads, been nothing but a PITA! (Of course we've been left to try and sort them out...)

 

 

 

It's easy for the iPad to be seen as the product for educational needs but the plain and simple response to this is that it is a consumer product being positioned as something educational by a global brand with lots of marketing budget. Don't fall for it - if the app isn't written for your need then the product becomes locked down, it isn't robust enough for class use and it's very deployment makes all previous digital resources used in the school completely redundant (Notebook, ActivInspire, 2Simple, Espresso, Sherston etc). It's a great example of a product being shoehorned into education and everyone has fallen for it as they are cool and work nicely at home. For me, that's where they should stay. They're great for consumption but I think the kids will need more than that.

 

I'd stick with Windows morning, noon and night. Far easier to connect to the network, save files, print, IT administration etc. I'd also hold off Windows 8 until SP1 rolls along unless you want bugs too.

 

For products, robust convertible netbooks work well for Primary - see this one: Classmate 2S which is a good all round spec for £299 on 7 Starter or £359 on 7 Pro. It'll teach them keyboard skills as well as allowing them to be used as tablets for moving outside or into the library or hall. Consider a software product that connects them together to share files and URLs etc (something else you can't do with an iPad either) as then you can start to use them quickly and efficiently. They may actually learn something with them! In Secondary I can't see why a full sized laptop isn't sufficient as it'll give the pupils everything they need.

 

Just my 2p's worth, hope it helps.

Good luck

[caffrey]

We got lumbered with them 47 got delivered and we got left to sort them out, having no previous experience with anything Apple (Tell a lie I had a mac mini at home for a year so I wasn't a total noob)

problems we have / still have include :-

 

Can't no matter what connect to AD for profile manager, tried everything.

Problems with apps, distribution (how to etc.)

MIS not compatible (E1) The teachers are struggling at the login page, altho I believe theres an update in december to fix this.

 

Everything on the apple side is convoluted (to me).

 

Itunes, Apple configurator and profile manager - why not converge them all into one? And i'm still struggling with the correct process of Ipad distribution.

What I ended up doing was powering on each ipad, updating it, giving it a name then registering it with profile manager. Then I would go into profile manager and setup each ipad individually for exchange etc (as I couldn't get active directory working)

But now i'm struggling with app deployment and the correct way to go about it (seems like there's no proper way yet at all). We were forced into getting them out ready for half term for (I kid you not for a morale boost for staff...)

currently to distro an app im doing this :-

 

Download app to test Ipad, connect to itunes on the server via usb, find the ipa, import into profile manager and push out to devices, why can't this be easier?

 

The other frustrating thing with my experiments into app distribution is you can push an app out using profile manager but the end user gets the choice whether to install it or not - so whats the point in the management then?

 

Profile Manager is also missing adding an Itunes account for all devices, users are getting account password prompts when I push out apps.

 

I've no idea what i'm doing and frustrated with it all, if it was windows I'd have no problem, but i'm getting made to look useless as I can't support the ipads properly at all!

 

Bit of a rant, so sorry ;p

Edited November 7, 2012 by caffrey

[zag]

Why are you trying to manage the apps?

 

Why not let users do this themselves?

 

The only thing we install and setup is Sims Emerge.

[caffrey]

On the verge of doing this now as i've given up trying to get any sense out of it, it wasn't our idea - SLT wanted everything centrally managed via volume purchasing, I'm guessing for budgetary reasons and to stop uneccessary purchases. Also teachers using their own purchase methods and claiming back etc. I'm tempted to do away with everything we've done and say stuff it do what you want.

Thing is the options there to do it, it's just very badly done imo.

 

Teachers will probably start wanting itunes next, funny thing is some teachers haven't even picked up their ipads as they don't want one, and one has been returned....

 

Don't get me wrong, I see some benefits in the things they just are not designed for enterprise and I doubt they ever will.

[zag]

We just give the teachers itunes vouchers, works very well and they can buy whatever they want.

 

Departments take responsibility of those vouchers and how they are used.

[caffrey]

I think that's the way forward here, altho why are the tools there to almost do it ? With proper MDM Ipads would be brilliant. Handing out vouchers is just crazy imo, no way of tracking for inappropriate apps (the ipads belong to the school not the user).

And where's the review process for appropriate apps? Whats to stop a teacher wasting money on rubbish apps?

 

I'll suggest it to SLT tho something needs sorting as theres talk of all the pupils getting one next september - maybe the tools might mature by then.

Edited November 7, 2012 by caffrey

[witch]

Why are you trying to manage the apps?

 

Why not let users do this themselves?

 

The only thing we install and setup is Sims Emerge.

 

So...if users cant print and cant access their files on the server, what do they use the ipads for? Not sarky, genuine question!

[JAB1a]

@caffrey Thanks for letting me know your troubles that you have had, these are all the fears I had realised.

 

@zag like Caffrey said your route is probable the only sensable way forward with ipads, let the staff/department heads control what software is on them but I do not like the thought of vouchers being handed out and software organised by other people when its me that will be lumbered with sorting the problems out after it all goes wrong (not sure how it could go wrong but those are famous last words).

 

Do your staff use the ipads for direct teaching tools? (used as part of a lesson) or are they just a teachers resource?

[caffrey]

I'd rather have seen the money spent on laptops (cheaper!) then remove all the (ageing) desktop pcs from the classrooms, but hey i'm only the assistant here *shrugs* ;p

We are getting a stream of staff coming in with problems with them, something we aren't prepared for.

 

They can access their files if the infrastructure is sorted first, using something like dropbox or another cloud service for their files - but this wasn't thought of...

Edited November 7, 2012 by caffrey

[zag]

So...if users cant print and cant access their files on the server, what do they use the ipads for? Not sarky, genuine question!

 

Indeed, good question.

 

Mainly I would ask why anyone would want to print? We've had ipads for over a year now and I don't think i've had anyone ask to print anything. The ipad is usually used to present the work without the need for paper. Infact its nearly a4 sized and does full colour

 

For file servers its the same really. People tend to store stuff locally now or on skydrive or email. We have 2 big shared drives that have become virtually redundant since users take all their files with them and its so easy to share with each other. Its just decentralizing things thats all. We do buy ipads that are 32gb though so people can store a lot of stuff themselves.

 

As I've said before, iPads and tablets in general are moving away from the central shared server infrastructure we are all used to. Its a different way of thinking and surely the future.

Edited November 7, 2012 by zag

[caffrey]

Sounds like it's trying to put us out of a job more like ;p

 

The other issue is the majority of educational software is windows only, as is a lot of curriculum so Ipads are not the answer, i'm not an old stick in the mud - I love new technologies in the right context but they are just a tool not a replacement surely?

I've seen excellent demos in classes where the ipad has shown itself to be a worthy replacement for a smart / interactive board (when the apple tvs start being more reliable...). plus pupil / teacher collaboration exercises.

[dayzd]

People tend to store stuff locally now on skydrive or email. We have 2 big shared drives that have become virtually redundant since users take all their files with them and its so easy to share with each other. Its just decentralizing things thats all. We do buy ipads that are 32gb though so people can store a lot of stuff themselves.

 

'Just decentralising things' does have the effect of removing control as well as responsibility.

What's your approach to backups in this situation? Or dealing with equipment damage / theft? Please don't say iCloud...!

[zag]

'Just decentralising things' does have the effect of removing control as well as responsibility.

What's your approach to backups in this situation? Or dealing with equipment damage / theft? Please don't say iCloud...!

 

Users responsibility. Although saying that itunes backs things up every time you connect so its quite transparent.