aerospacemango Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 There was a report of an elderly woman having much the same experience when a bunch of youths breaking into her shed. After being told no one was available and watching the burglary continue, she phoned them back and said "Those burglars I told you about in my shed. No need to hurry, I've shot them all". Funnily enough, an Armed Response Unit and two plod cars were on the scene almost before she put the phone down. If you want action ... (no, please don't try it, really). Surely this is an apochryphal story that has been doing the rounds for years?? snopes.com: Response Time Hmmmm.....
pcstru Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Surely this is an apochryphal story that has been doing the rounds for years?? Don't I at least get a cool story bro meme. Sheesh - what is the world coming to.
aerospacemango Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Don't I at least get a cool story bro meme. Sheesh - what is the world coming to. You got an "I caught you with a ropey made-up story" wink.... What more do you want???
AMLinington Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 part of the problem with the stae pension is though that it was designed at a time where fewer people lived say 10 years past retirement and there was a higher percentage of workers to pensioners now the population is getting older and living longer what worked before needs to be changed wither people have to cough up more as a percentage of their wage/get less pention/work longer there is only a finite pot of money Finite pot of money notwithstanding, why not take the approach of 'you get out what you pay in'. If the 'State pension' was not a mandatory requirement, but an 'optional' choice where you choose to take advantage of the state scheme (similar to workplace pensions) to get a better investment return, and over your working life you paid in X amount, when you retired, you should get X amount + invested gain back again? Or do away with the state pension and enforce private pensions (similar to the private healthcare system in America) but remove completely the element of income tax or national insurance that goes into the state pension. Pay out what people paid in, and it's fair. The pot of money would only be as large as the amount paid in, but then it would only have to pay out that same value + whatever % it has gained 'in the market' surely? Perhaps that is an overly simplistic view, but the culture of 'something for nothing' is problematic.
witch Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Perhaps that is an overly simplistic view, but the culture of 'something for nothing' is problematic. Sorry, you've lost me - "something for nothing" - what, the state pension? I dont think so when you may have paid into it via taxation for upwards of 40 years
elsiegee40 Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Sorry, you've lost me - "something for nothing" - what, the state pension? I dont think so when you may have paid into it via taxation for upwards of 40 years I agree... those National Insurance contributions are taken for state pension! Many people have no other source of pension and it's too late to do much else
X-13 Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Don't I at least get a cool story bro meme. Sheesh - what is the world coming to. http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx304/thebitchlizard/Funny%20pics/Cool-Dog-Hey-Cool-story-bro41.jpg Apologies for the delay, I was playing Angry Birds [stage 1 Level 1-1 > 3-12 3 starred.]
AMLinington Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Sorry, you've lost me - "something for nothing" - what, the state pension? I dont think so when you may have paid into it via taxation for upwards of 40 years By the culture of 'something for nothing' I am referring to those who live off the state for no good reason, don't pay taxes or NI contributions and leech off the NI and Tax working people are paying. Then, at the end of it, they expect a pension on top! I read somewhere that it is more profitable for these spongers and wasters to live off the welfare state than for them to get a job, as their income far exceeds what they would be capable of earning when you take into consideration the fact that the majority of people that live off the state for no reason (and we're not talking disability/illness/redundancy, we're talking the 'get pregnant and get a flat on the social' mentality) very likely have few qualifications or practical trade experience and so their job prospects are limited to unskilled or manual labour roles which usually command minimum wage. There are always exceptions to the rule, but generally, if you knock on every door in a Social housing locality, a healthy majority of the inhabitants will have left school with few-to-no GCSEs and are unlikely to hold apprenticeship or trade qualifications. Is it any wonder they pop out a new child every 2 years when child benefit alone is enough to keep them in their XBoxes and iPads?
SpuffMonkey Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 What annoys me is that if we had been as far sighted as Norway (for Gods sake!) then we wouldn't be in this mess - they decided to take the money from their chunk of North Sea oil and create a massive pension fund so that the increasing numbers of old people in relation to the smaller number of younger working people wouldn't be a problem see - The Government Pension Fund of Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - instead of p1ssing it all away over the last 30 years. Deep sigh... Its not without its own problems - but its a nicer type of problem.
flyinghaggis Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I guess the main problem here is simple demographics. The 'baby boomer' generation is about to retire whilst the birth rate has been dropping (despite immigration) and thanks to advances in medicine people are living long than was ever anticipated. A perfect storm situation is appearing globally when over 65's are going to start accounting for a substantial percentage of the population. Put simply there won't be enough people working to pay for those that are retired hence somethings's got to give. It doesn't help that politicians have lived hand to mouth and run the state pension like a ponzi scheme when we should have been saving money for the above scenario! Admittedly hearing it from a £120,000 a year retired peer is a bit hard to swallow but unfortunately what he's stating is going to come down to simple maths. I'll probably upset people by saying this but anyone in their 20's or 30's is likely going to be seriously disappointed if they expect to retire before 70 and live on a state pension alone! And I say that as someone in their (early) 30's! Edited October 25, 2012 by flyinghaggis
AMLinington Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 I'm under no illusions that LeBoyfriend and I will likely die at our desks. I suppose I'd rather die at my desk than alone in my house with no-one to care whether I'm alive or not, as my poor kittehs will have to eat me to survive.
X-13 Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 I'm under no illusions that LeBoyfriend and I will likely die at our desks. I suppose I'd rather die at my desk than alone in my house with no-one to care whether I'm alive or not, as my poor kittehs will have to eat me to survive. Such a happy, cheerful person...
localzuk Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 In my life, I will likely pay more than £150,000 in national insurance. Say half of this goes to paying for my healthcare. The other half, £75,000, even if invested in a poor rewarding way it should return at least a further £10,000 in interest, so say £85,000. With the current 'full' national pension, that would be 16 years of money for pension. ie. It should provide about £5k a year from the age 68 until age 84. Life expectancy is 80.4 years in the UK. If the scheme had been run correctly and not mismanaged by successive governments, such as the last labour government raiding the pension funds to pay for their spending, then there wouldn't be any issues for it, at all. So, the problem is not people ageing, it is poor management of the funds, plain and simple. 2
zag Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Fully support this. I've always worked for my living, always will. I don't expect the state to pick it up anything for me. With good financial planning anyone could have the same attitude.
localzuk Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Fully support this. I've always worked for my living, always will. I don't expect the state to pick it up anything for me. With good financial planning anyone could have the same attitude. Support what? The proposal to make OAPs work for the pension? What's the point of people paying their entire working lives then? Why not just make people work till they drop?
zag Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Support what? The proposal to make OAPs work for the pension? What's the point of people paying their entire working lives then? Why not just make people work till they drop? Yep, I have no problem asking people to work as long as they are able. Its just how I was brought up, My grandfarther worked in a golf shop until the day he died, never seen a happier man.
localzuk Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Yep, I have no problem asking people to work as long as they are able. Its just how I was brought up, My grandfarther worked in a golf shop until the day he died, never seen a happier man. Well done. Boggles my mind, but you're entitled to your opinion! Me? When I've worked for 45+ years, I think I'll be wanting a rest. Now people are suggesting that the LGPS is raided to build homes... You just know it'd end up being a disaster somehow though. BBC News - Pension funds could finance new homes, report suggests
LeMarchand Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Fully support this. I've always worked for my living, always will. I don't expect the state to pick it up anything for me. With good financial planning anyone could have the same attitude. Just pray that whoever is investing/storing your putative pension fund doesn't go bust/screw up and then shrug their shoulders and (if you're lucky) apologise whilst giving themselves a huge bonus for losing your money.
featured_spectre Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Have to say, my nan still works now in a charity shop in Germany. At 65, after 25 years with the private sector she was forced to retire, and before that she spent 24 years working as a "maid" and worked her way up for the Bundeskanzleramt (Chancellory building). She worked her way up from Maid to lady in charge of all maids and cleaners of the Bundeskanzleramt, and then moved into the banking sector in Osnabruck then Berlin. In all of her time, she saved, and her logic was, it was better for her to save, than the government to save for her, so she knew how much she had, rather than be dictated to and told how much she must have. She is now 78, and she spent the last 13 years working in charity shops because it gets her out of the house, maintains her independence, allows her to socialise with "work friends" and allows her time away from the house. Every old person I know wants to be productive, and I say let them, but not at the expense of their pension being held to ransom!
GrumbleDook Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Surely this is an apochryphal story that has been doing the rounds for years?? snopes.com: Response Time Hmmmm..... I have, when about to arrest someone, rung the control centre and asked for police and ambulance because it is likely that someone would get hurt. It does work ... but I would not recommend it.
zag Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Just pray that whoever is investing/storing your putative pension fund doesn't go bust/screw up and then shrug their shoulders and (if you're lucky) apologise whilst giving themselves a huge bonus for losing your money. Well that would be myself then My main point is too many people rely on the state pension (which is what this article is talking about) and just expect to sit back and be paid. I don't like that attitude at all. I have no problem with all the NI payments I've made going to the most needy but they should be encouraged to work and help others in the process. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me. If you want financial independence then invest in other things yourself over your life. The government can do whatever they want to the state pension in the future, I certainly won't be relying or expecting anything from it.
localzuk Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) If you want financial independence then invest in other things yourself over your life. The government can do whatever they want to the state pension in the future, I certainly won't be relying or expecting anything from it. Nope, they can't. They will be sued if they mess it up, as they basically have a contract with people paying into it at the moment. Edited October 26, 2012 by localzuk
pcstru Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Nope, they can't. They will be sued if they mess it up, as they basically have a contract with people paying into it at the moment. Where is this contract? If there is a contract then how come they are not being successfully challenged on raising the retirement age? People just need to face the reality. The changing demographics (more old people, less young people) make the current state pension arrangements unsustainable. Even if you could sue the government, that won't create the income needed to actually pay the pensions. What we actually need is more immigration, more young folks sprogging a baby every 2 years (more often if possible) and a campaign to encourage people to take up smoking (preferably unfiltered players No 6) and drink at least 10 units of alcohol a night after a full fat fry up of sausages and chips.
Dos_Box Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Nope, they can't. They will be sued if they mess it up, as they basically have a contract with people paying into it at the moment. Well, there's the problem. You are not paying 'into' anything. Your monthly NI contributions pay for the current pensioners. Nothing is being 'put away' for you. NI, the only 'insurance' scheme that pays out even if you don't make any payments!
featured_spectre Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 And there IMO is the problem. Don't pay in? Can't take out unless a naturalised person/citizen that is disabled and unable to pay in. There would be uproar but it would fix the issue of how much benefits and pensions people get.
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