teejay Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Well done Wales on a well deserved Grand Slam, you really have a strong, talented team there! Also, well done England, that performance against Ireland was awesome and a well deserved 2nd place. Stuart Lancaster had better have the job after that, taking England from the embarrassment they were at the World Cup and getting them to where they are now in 8 weeks is some achievement. Andy Robinson, your next job will be coaching Outer Mongolia...
glennda Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Well done Wales on a well deserved Grand Slam, you really have a strong, talented team there! I have to say they are talented, good team but they didn't deserve a grand slam - win the tournament but the grand slam. Considering the state English rugby was before the 6 nations I think they have grown so much and Bring on 2015 World Cup at home. The pack squashing an Irish front 8 was an awesome site to watch as its not as if the Irish pack is not weak!
witch Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I have to say they are talented, good team but they didn't deserve a grand slam - win the tournament but the grand slam. Why? Why didn't they deserve the Grand Slam? Or are we still moaning about the ref (who was equally crap on both sides) in the England Wales game? I do hope not - both Wales and England played very well throughout the championship and as a half-Welsh half-English person, I am pretty happy with the result!
elsiegee40 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Well done Wales and England! I'm delighted that Wales have got the Grand Slam and very pleased that England are back to being worthy rivals again.
glennda Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Why? Why didn't they deserve the Grand Slam? Or are we still moaning about the ref (who was equally crap on both sides) in the England Wales game? I do hope not - both Wales and England played very well throughout the championship and as a half-Welsh half-English person, I am pretty happy with the result! Nope - They played well but i wouldn't have said they where an amazing team. Good grit to keep hold but most of the games they won where only just. A Grand Slam sort of indicates a complete dominance over the tournament which although winning every game they didn't do. Beat Ireland by 2 points, beat Scotland and Italy comfortably (which isn't surprising!) and England by 7 (which i won't go on about ) and then France by 7 Hardly a dominance and apart from yesterdays game they didn't seem to have that much flare about the team.
witch Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 A Grand Slam sort of indicates a complete dominance over the tournament which although winning every game they didn't do. Who says it does? It just means that they beat everyone else, which they did. A team which dominates the others completely makes for a much more boring tournament - trust me, I know - I watched Wales in the 1970's!
glennda Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Who says it does? It just means that they beat everyone else, which they did. A team which dominates the others completely makes for a much more boring tournament - trust me, I know - I watched Wales in the 1970's! Well moat of the people at my rugby club! With a few welsh included
rich_tech Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Well it was an awesome weekend of rugby, 3 slams now within the last 10 years and a youngish side for the majority of it, I dont think were quite the flash in the pan team that Paul O'Connell referred to us as a few years back, we deserved it this year, every game was close calling it with a lot of work needed to make it and we righted a few wrongs imo, especially over France after the world cup and the Allain Rowland debacle. But were no means a top draw team either yet, we have an exceptionally fit team now and a good ethos and spirit there, but we do need to get into the habit of beating the southern hemisphere teams with a regularity, not just an occasional one off here and there. I am finding though rugby under its current rules is a very frustrating game to watch, scrummaging - this is now becoming a penalty contest and were heading towards rugby league style restarts here, might as well award a free kick and be done with it as it is now, (I as did a load of people in the pub I was in, think Nigel Owens actually dealt a harsh blow with the penalty try, England would have won that game regardless of that decision though, Lancasters doing an awesome job of rebuilding a team from scratch with your country and actually promoting youth in that team), I really wish they would go back to resetting scrums a few times instead of being penalised by someone who at times demonstrates they havent played there at all and gets it wrong with the penalty call. Same for rucking, I would like to see that back into the game now and also sort out the leaving the ball at the base of the ruck for ages before playing it, that needs looking at (I am up for anything in the game that makes Phillips actually pass the ball with a bit of urgency) Andy Robinson I actually feel a bit sorry for, hes done pretty much as best he can with a limited recruitment pool of talent, he can do everything bar make them play it seems, no guts and a team in depression it seems like to me, needs a rebuild badly up there. Edited March 19, 2012 by rich_tech 1
witch Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I am finding though rugby under its current rules is a very frustrating game to watch, scrummaging - this is now becoming a penalty contest and were heading towards rugby league style restarts here, might as well award a free kick and be done with it as it is now, . I agree - we used to laugh at rugby league as it seemed that every time someone got hold of the ball a whistle blew and the ball was kicked behind - rugby union seems to be going the same way
glennda Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 @rich_tech - the Penalty try was given for Offside at the scrum (winger - so we decided in the clubhouse") not for any infringement at the scrum. The Scrum was pushed back so far that (I think tommy Bowe) came off the line early to tackle Ben Morgan hence the reason Nigel Owens waited to see in he had scored a try before awarding the penalty try, But were no means a top draw team either yet, we have an exceptionally fit team now and a good ethos and spirit there, but we do need to get into the habit of beating the southern hemisphere teams with a regularity, not just an occasional one off here and there This is kinda what I mean about them not deserving a Grand Slam I'm wanting to see Richie Grey in a Lions shirt! But at the moment its pretty much the only shining hope Scotland have. Nobody else seems to stand out - but then again Richie Grey is 6ft 10"!
rich_tech Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I would disagree on the grand slam bit, because you dont have to beat southern hemispheres for that, just be the best team in the northern hemisphere, which we are at present I believe. England had a team that have retired or been slowly retiring en masse, which is why Lancasters efforts and bringing young players through are impressive, Ireland are an ageing team, they do bring people through, but still overly rely on older players in that team, Scotland are in the doldrums big time and not going anywhere I think looking at the 6nations, they have some excellent talent, but dont gel as a team. France, they need consistency in the way they play, its no good being a 50/50 team where they can turn it on one week and blitz people and then play poorly a week later, I know their known for flair, but until they sort out consistency out, its not threatening really for most teams. Wales at least for me are in an exciting position here as we stand at the moment, we dont particularly fear anyone we play, that showed in the world cup I think and we will have a go at people and take everything as a challenge, Sean Edwards and Warren Gatland have made for an excellent coaching partnership with us, but we live on the knife edge too, It can all go wrong with us and when it does, its depressing, we even make hard work of games at times and I never underestimate my countries ability to disappoint me. Australia tour will be what everyones looking towards now here, especially given the fact we do need to make the next step now and up our game another level, we cant keep coming off second best to the southern hemi teams.
sonofsanta Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Well-deserved by Wales indeed, they played consistently well, which is more than can be said of any other team in the tournament this year - England took a bit of warming up in all honesty, although given the situation I can't blame them. Very proud of how well they worked as a team given their relative inexperience - seeing the difference in caps between them and France was scary, but winning three away games was a phenomenal effort. If we'd played Wales at the end of the tournament it might have been a different result. And Owen Farrell, what a boot that lad has! Lord only knows what is up with the Scottish. Clearly they are capable of playing, they just always seem to set their ability on a per-match basis to slightly below the opposition. They have got talent in there, I just don't think they know how to play as a team - their support for each other is atrocious. I fear that the blame for that can only be laid at Andy Robinson's door though. Who says it does? It just means that they beat everyone else, which they did. A team which dominates the others completely makes for a much more boring tournament - trust me, I know - I watched Wales in the 1970's! Surely you've watched replays on tape then, to have seen that?
Earthling Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Of course we're the best team in the Northern Hemisphere, we just beat every other team, didn't we? And as for not running away and racking up a huge points difference every game....that doesn't matter, a win is a win is a win, as I'm sure every other national rugby fan would say in the same position. The time for that will come soon enough.....as soon as Mike Phillips starts delivering early ball from a ruck. I sometimes think his decision-making goes a bit awry too, but who am I to cricticise, I haven't played the game since my schooldays. Not sure about Rhys Priestland either........seems to me like the Fly Half Factory has gone into reduced production for some reason. Let's not forget the massive margin by which England won the World Cup......a whole 3 points. The fact is that English rugby has lived off that World Cup win, and Johnny Wilkinson's penalties for far too long....even in the run-up to last year's WC, the BBC were still playing the 'Johnny Wilkinson drops for World Cup Glory' commentary clip. When Wilkinson got too bashed up to play at the top of his game, their whole game-plan went out the window, and the RFU took way too long to firstly, realise it, and secondly, do something about it. Results don't lie, and a third Grand Slam in 7 years tells its own story. Wales have a good mix of age and experience, youth and enthusiasm, and a coach who could probably get a job coaching any other side in the north or south. The real test will come in the summer, and I fear for the confidence of some of the younger players if we take too much of a bashing. It's become a very technical game, with far too many technical penalties, which I've thought, for a while now, could be reduced to free-kicks, but then, of course, players will deliberately infringe, because they know they're not going to give away 3 points. I was worn out after the France game, I was confident we'd win, but you never know which French team are going to turn up, and perhaps if they'd played in the first-half as they played in the second, things might have been different. Perhaps. Ho-hum, a whole year until the next 6 Nations.
36Degrees Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 And Owen Farrell, what a boot that lad has! I agree, I just wish he wouldn't use it so much in open play. There were several times when he kicked ball away where I think he should have passed it. This year the wings hardly saw the ball whereas last year Chris Ashton scored quite a few tries!
Earthling Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Nope - They played well but i wouldn't have said they where an amazing team. Good grit to keep hold but most of the games they won where only just. A Grand Slam sort of indicates a complete dominance over the tournament which although winning every game they didn't do. Beat Ireland by 2 points, beat Scotland and Italy comfortably (which isn't surprising!) and England by 7 (which i won't go on about ) and then France by 7 Hardly a dominance and apart from yesterdays game they didn't seem to have that much flare about the team. How do you exercise more domination in a tournament than by beating every team you play? I must be missing something.
sonofsanta Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I agree, I just wish he wouldn't use it so much in open play. There were several times when he kicked ball away where I think he should have passed it. This year the wings hardly saw the ball whereas last year Chris Ashton scored quite a few tries! I don't think Chris Ashton had much of a tournament anyway, other than that one tackle against France he didn't make much of an impact. His domestic season has been a bit quiet too though - obviously this is just his rough patch, that every good English player has to suffer through... I feel sorry for Toby Flood to be honest - great attacking Number 10, waited for years for Wilko to retire, finally does and he's injured and see a young 'un come in and do a cracking job in his place.
36Degrees Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I don't think Chris Ashton had much of a tournament anyway, other than that one tackle against France he didn't make much of an impact. His domestic season has been a bit quiet too though - obviously this is just his rough patch, that every good English player has to suffer through... I feel sorry for Toby Flood to be honest - great attacking Number 10, waited for years for Wilko to retire, finally does and he's injured and see a young 'un come in and do a cracking job in his place. Ashton went off the boil during the World CUP IMHO - the only tackle I actually remember him making was on Ben Foden. As a Leicester Tigers season ticket holder I definitely agree about Flood. Overlooked a little under Martin Johnson then gets injured allowing Hodgson to be the back up to Farrell. I think Farrell is a great talent but in certain respects I think there are still aspects of his game that need working on if he is to be a world class 10.
witch Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Surely you've watched replays on tape then, to have seen that? If you weren't young enough to be my son, I'd kiss you!
elsiegee40 Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 If you weren't young enough to be my son, I'd kiss you! Steady on there @witch !
glennda Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Ashton went off the boil during the World CUP IMHO - the only tackle I actually remember him making was on Ben Foden. As a Leicester Tigers season ticket holder I definitely agree about Flood. Overlooked a little under Martin Johnson then gets injured allowing Hodgson to be the back up to Farrell. I think Farrell is a great talent but in certain respects I think there are still aspects of his game that need working on if he is to be a world class 10. Ashton's main problem was that Tualagi was at Outside center - who is not a distributing player. RE Toby Flood yes hes unlucky but hes going to have to do a lot to kick Farrell out of the team now. Also he needs to watch his back at Leicester as George Ford is looking rather good for them recently but thats only been for the last few games and he is still very young (18 I think?)
36Degrees Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Ashton's main problem was that Tualagi was at Outside center - who is not a distributing player. RE Toby Flood yes hes unlucky but hes going to have to do a lot to kick Farrell out of the team now. Also he needs to watch his back at Leicester as George Ford is looking rather good for them recently but thats only been for the last few games and he is still very young (18 I think?) The ball rarely got to Manu either (and not that often to even Barritt!) but he his very good at direct running to either offload in the tackle or ensure that the ball is available. George is also an amazing talent who is starting to adjust very well to life in the first team after coming through the Tigers Academy and A league (plus being England U18s captain!). His rise in form is one of the main reasons we expect to lose Jeremy Staunton at the end of the season and he was 19 on the 16th March.
glennda Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 The ball rarely got to Manu either (and not that often to even Barritt!) but he his very good at direct running to either offload in the tackle or ensure that the ball is available. George is also an amazing talent who is starting to adjust very well to life in the first team after coming through the Tigers Academy and A league (plus being England U18s captain!). His rise in form is one of the main reasons we expect to lose Jeremy Staunton at the end of the season and he was 19 on the 16th March. Your also about to lose Twelvetrees aren't you? Hes off to Gloucester at the end of the season. I used to play with him at Junior level along with a couple of the players at Quins (Marler/Wallace/Chisholm although we are a couple of years younger) I think the main way they tried to play was quick ball through the forwards which worked well and opened up the small holes which the backs didn't get the chance to penetrate. I have to say I didn't rate Barrit in the tournament at all but possibly one of those players that does a lot that you don't notice.
36Degrees Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Twelvetrees was a converted centre really who had patches of brilliance but also sometimes struggled at 10 on the big stage although he admitted he didn't want to play 10. Supposedly that's part of the reason he's off to Gloucs (will only play centre) and there are also claims he won't have to fight for his place which I find difficult to believe. I think Barritt did some good work in defence but seemed too eager at times to take the ball into contact rather than try and move it wide.
Oaktech Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 As someone who supports wales and has done my whole life, i'm thrilled they are at the level they are, but i think there is still considerable room for improvement. I feel that wales still have development potential. They seem to have a bit of the freewheeling mentality that dogged england a couple of years ago making them a slightly complacent side when in the lead. I also find them a bit single-speed, which in this championship was just enough, but they seemed unable to increase their intensity under pressure which i feel is what hapened against england, england threatened and they couldn't respond in kind, and only held on to the match by the decisions of the ref! I can't help feeling feel that it was not so much 'the best team' that won, more 'the least worst'.
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