sramdeen Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Just touching on email still: Has anyone managed to get Atomwide to allow IMAP? On the example sheet of the MIPs request form it gives email as an example service, indicating that they will unblock the necessary ports if requested. However, one of my customers has just sent this to me in despair: teacher: What about the teachers that wish to access their gmail etc accounts using an email client like we did on lgfl1? Teachers with ipads? iPhones etc? Will that work through ECC? (what is ecc?) support desk: No I'm afraid there is no way to route that email through the ECC towers they will have to use the web browser on their devices. What an upgrade!
hit Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Just touching on email still: Has anyone managed to get Atomwide to allow IMAP? On the example sheet of the MIPs request form it gives email as an example service, indicating that they will unblock the necessary ports if requested. Nope, they completely refuse to allow any other mail through apart from StaffMail (lgflmail.org). The only way is through a web interface and then you have to allow "Web E-mail" on the WebScreen2 filtering policies (if it hasn't been blocked by your LA). We wanted to configure Outlook for LondonMail (lgflmail.net) for students and that can't get through either and the OWA interface for it sucks! Yet another reason we are moving to an in-house exchange server over the summer!
Nodrog Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 I got a range of ports opened up for Gmail – they have a 'group' for all the google ip address and I just asked for them to be allowed as outbound connections to the specified ranges that they use. I started by just asking for outbound to any old ip and that did not work.
psydii Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 LGfL have announced that they are working with LogMe in to find a solution. Apparently there was even a LMI rep at the LGFL Conference a few weeks ago. On the topic of GMAIL - have you asked for the ports and hosts listed in this article? Configuring other mail clients - Google Mail Help LGfL is very very short of publicly adressable IP addresses. They are desperately keen to avoid any blacklists, which are terribly easy to get onto if even one site has a spammy peice of malware. I would hope that by naming the specific server you wish to communicate with and that it requires authentication ought to allay their fears. It is interesting - until very recently I have found LGfL to be completely opaque. The first time they really opened up was via the nominated contact training, and now every time problems from the migration hit us, the more open they become. I really hope that they will start behaving like a comercial organisation when it comes to customer relations. They only have a limited pool of customers - and now that many of them are no longer locked in, they absolutely have to start communicating better with the technical staff in schools. They also need to realise that they have to treat the consumers of the service as the customers. Atomwide's customer is not thee or me, but LGfL. In many cases LGfL's customer is not even the school but the LA. The consumers of the service are left in the dark without a voice. Maintenance windows, changes, filter rules, rate limiters, absolute blocks, changes all need to be publicised. Their network reaches deep into schools and unexpected changes can cause chaos. They esposed an openess will to listend to the consumers of the service at the Conference this year. It would be really good to see them put their money where their mouth is. P. 1
hit Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 Have just received this little gem from CentraStage.... I am contacting you following your recent account registration for the CentraStage platform. I wanted to share with you the additional information about Centrastage and the capabilities of the software you are entitled to Free as part of the LGFL. * If you have any support queries please raise them with our support team directly by simply visiting the Centrastage Community * What do I get for Free? - The on demand version that you receive free of charge as part of the LGFL, allows you to have the below features: * -********* Auditing – Agent comes online every 7 days and run an audit (attended remote session) -********* Remote Support – end user initiated remote takeover -********* Reporting * The full product is upgradeable at a cost and will provide you with an ‘unrestricted’, always on agent capability. * -********* Unattended remote control -********* Software Deployment -********* Monitoring -********* Patch Management * If you would like further details around the product commercials or a run through of what the full product can provide, please contact me directly and I will be happy provide a breakdown for you. * Keen to hear your thoughts and look forward to your feedback. So, the short of it is they block logmein and supply CentraStage as a replacement which won't allow me to connect ad-hoc, it has to be initiated by a user. How the hell is that meant to work on a server, do I ring a user at the site, ask them to RDP into the server and click the "HELP ME" button, just so I can do my job? Shafted once again by LGfL! 1
talksr Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 As a school waiting to transition over to LGFL 2.0 this is very worrying to read. We do so much work remotely in the same ad-hoc way you describe both onsite and offsite. Not being able to do this kind of work will have a profound effect on the way we resolve our problems and also how long users will have to wait for issues to be resolved. I am yet to have ever used remote software which asks a user for permission for me to connect. Why would I want a user to give me permission to use a computer on my network?! I totally understand the security reasoning for this, but for us this is really not going to work. In anticipation of the changes, I emailed a James Fletcher from CentraStage to try and glean some info on what we would be getting etc, but never got a response. Worrying times ahead!
hit Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 We look after 5 sites (soon to be 7) and CentraStage looked to be perfect, they gave us what I now know to be the full product and will now be taking bits away unless we pay for them! The problem we have is that all our sites are meant to be on LGfL2 by now but the very sad state of affairs that has delayed everything now means that we are trying to support everything over 2 providers. If we ever get LGfL2 on all sites RAV3 will work for us I guess but it's a PITA to get working properly, DNS never resolves properly for one, guess we will just have to have a massive list of IP addresses to work from! 1
esucmn Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 So, the short of it is they block logmein and supply CentraStage as a replacement which won't allow me to connect ad-hoc, it has to be initiated by a user. How the hell is that meant to work on a server, do I ring a user at the site, ask them to RDP into the server and click the "HELP ME" button, just so I can do my job? Shafted once again by LGfL! No - In this case you should be using the web based RAv3 with an RSA token, or the Cisco Anyconnect VPN. Sensible precautions, if a bit of a pain in the backside. For normal school administration, I don't see this as a problem.
esucmn Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I'm not sure about the rate limit your talking about here - I've found two ways to get outbound to work - firstly just post straight out to the main LGfL smtp outbound servers - no limit's on them Do you mean the ECC relays? How do you know there is no limit? Can you point me to precisely where this is specified? If it reaches the limit then the system just disables it for a hour and then starts you up again after the hour is finished which is done automatically and that’s displayed in the tab on the support site - if you over run the limit then it's worth looking at why your sending loads of emails and either fixing the problem or asking for an increase on them limit which I got or posting into your own email server. If you tell them a to and a from address you get a massive limit and if you tell them nothing then a small limit. Which relays are you talking about here? Where are the technical details on the limits and sanctions spelled out? Will they increase the limit? Becuase they won't on StaffMail?
hit Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 No - In this case you should be using the web based RAv3 with an RSA token, or the Cisco Anyconnect VPN. Sensible precautions, if a bit of a pain in the backside. For normal school administration, I don't see this as a problem. Uh-huh, see my other comment... We look after 5 sites (soon to be 7) and CentraStage looked to be perfect, they gave us what I now know to be the full product and will now be taking bits away unless we pay for them! The problem we have is that all our sites are meant to be on LGfL2 by now but the very sad state of affairs that has delayed everything now means that we are trying to support everything over 2 providers. If we ever get LGfL2 on all sites RAV3 will work for us I guess but it's a PITA to get working properly, DNS never resolves properly for one, guess we will just have to have a massive list of IP addresses to work from! Leaves us in a nasty predicament at the moment with no completion dates (and no answer from anyone when) for 3 of my sites!
esucmn Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Uh-huh, see my other comment... My bad Leaves us in a nasty predicament at the moment with no completion dates (and no answer from anyone when) for 3 of my sites! Yeah - just be glad you didn't delay your virtulisation, new servers and infrastructure project from last year, decide to put in a wireless system, and install an Exchange system this year. Cos that would just be insane when we have LGFL 2.0 to add even more problems :'( If I make it through this summer without a serious mental breakdown, it's going to be a miracle! 1
hit Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Yeah - just be glad you didn't delay your virtulisation, new servers and infrastructure project from last year, decide to put in a wireless system, and install an Exchange system this year. Cos that would just be insane when we have LGFL 2.0 to add even more problems :'( Are you sat next to me? Sounds very similar to our timetable of events for one site!
esucmn Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Are you sat next to me? Sounds very similar to our timetable of events for one site! Bad luck - I seriously feel your pain!
Nodrog Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Do you mean the ECC relays? How do you know there is no limit? Can you point me to precisely where this is specified? Which relays are you talking about here? Where are the technical details on the limits and sanctions spelled out? Will they increase the limit? Becuase they won't on StaffMail? I'm talking about the ECC relays ie the outbound and inbound service for email servers - I asked the help desk guys if there was a limit there and they said no in the same way that there is no limit other than the local bandwidth on my connection. I've not found any technical written description about there NOT being a limit .... but then I would not expect to find that. Sanctions – same situation
esucmn Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I'm talking about the ECC relays ie the outbound and inbound service for email servers - I asked the help desk guys if there was a limit there and they said no in the same way that there is no limit other than the local bandwidth on my connection. I've not found any technical written description about there NOT being a limit .... but then I would not expect to find that. Sanctions – same situation I asked the same question and they refused to answer
Nodrog Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Do you mean the ECC relays? How do you know there is no limit? Can you point me to precisely where this is specified? Which relays are you talking about here? Where are the technical details on the limits and sanctions spelled out? Will they increase the limit? Becuase they won't on StaffMail? I think your confusing email relay for dealing with a photocopier …… found here in the manual on the support site https://support.lgfl.org.uk/secure/guide/WebGuide/Help.html?lgfl2_mips.html right at the bottom is the description of how the ‘rate limiting’ happens There is no limit on my outgoing email server nor an incoming limit. The idea with the relay service here is to stop infected devices vomiting stuff into the outside world and so the rate limit works well for this.
Searle Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I have been frustrated by the sudden switch from Synetrix to Atomwide. I understand that LGfL have imposed lots of restrictions for us have reduced the level of service we can provided to staff, support companies and outsourced services e.g. catering, NHS etc. I have also considered jumping ship but have decided to weather the storm a bit longer. We need LGfL to listen to our requirements rather than them dictating irrelevant and inflexible policies. If you have similar frustrations the please submit them to LGfL in the first place. The more we complain the more they have to respond. If we don’t we then consider jumping ship! Julian Griffiths-Searle ICT Systems Manager Battersea Park School
Soulfish Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I have been frustrated by the sudden switch from Synetrix to Atomwide. I understand that LGfL have imposed lots of restrictions for us have reduced the level of service we can provided to staff, support companies and outsourced services e.g. catering, NHS etc. I have also considered jumping ship but have decided to weather the storm a bit longer. We need LGfL to listen to our requirements rather than them dictating irrelevant and inflexible policies. If you have similar frustrations the please submit them to LGfL in the first place. The more we complain the more they have to respond. If we don’t we then consider jumping ship! Julian Griffiths-Searle ICT Systems Manager Battersea Park School The issue you face if you agree to a move to LGfL 2.0 is that you are then tied into a 5 year contract. Unfortunately if they're unwilling to change the policies etc at that point you'll have to stick it out until the end of the 5 years!
Shaun_Dark_Lord Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 I'm not alowed to give any details, but they are now listening, and I will be allowing an LGfL 2 connection to be installed after next Friday.
Eric Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I have been frustrated by the sudden switch from Synetrix to Atomwide. I understand that LGfL have imposed lots of restrictions for us have reduced the level of service we can provided to staff, support companies and outsourced services e.g. catering, NHS etc. One particular piece of ridiculosity which has just emerged: it is impossible to view any sites which mention VNC, let alone download the tool. This is in spite of the fact that LGfL/Atomwide agree that it is a legitimate tool for us to use. I have just had this confirmed (that it's "legitimate" in their eyes and that they are "unable" to re-categorise such sites so that we can access them) in a support ticket. This is, of course, the point: who are LGfL to decide what is and what is not a legitimate tool for us to use on our own networks?!!
Eric Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I'm not alowed to give any details ...Why ever not? Actually, I can guess.
john Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Maybe one thing to help you LGfL 2.0 people is they need to look around them at what others are doing, I know @GrumbleDook has spent time with schools looking at the future and many discussion has happened on here about options in the Northants area, but also look around the country. From knowing @Soulfish well I know his issues and some of the systems LGfL 2.0 has and it seem draconion in my opinion, where as here in Yorkshire we have now got basically a complete open system which most would be envious of, all schools have connections (various speeds) and a Smoothwall UTM, and so long as your Head / Chair of Governors signs a form off you have a completely unfiltered unrestricted connection, yes that right you choose what you do with it and how. I have a block of IPs and just do as needed, so if I want to RDC to a PC for a couple of days I just do the changes in Smoothwall and job done, publish a website no issues, open a firewall port for some weird software yep that is my choice. Our LA found it VERY hard going as its a major change from central farms, proxies, systems etc... but working with Smoothwall has been great, complaints (once initial teething issues were ironed out and training provided) have gone down, IT Managers are much happier as are schools, some are running very simple systems, other such as us as publishing apps, servers, remote systems etc... it has great flexability for us to use ICT to enhance teaching and learning as we need to and how we want to rather than be dictated to by someone who believe they know best. My opinion as an outsider reading about LGfL 2.0 is they went to 1997 and said right what do we want and they just picked ideas from back then.
psydii Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 It appears to me that they implemented the technical protections mandated by the Cabinet Office Security policy framework in areas they had control over (i.e. the network between the edge of the lan and the internet) Remote access is locked down because the free services potentially allowed un-auditable remote access by ex-employees. SMTP is blocked for quite valid reasons - though I don't know why they won’t allow imaps and smtps to cloud service providers - this does seem backward, but in line with the Cabinet office guidance. In general the filtering is much better, though restrictions always trip some people up. Having some categories that cannot be overridden is reasonable for very limit values of 'some'. The mandated IP scheme can even be accommodated - use one subnet as external to your local firewall and the other as a sort of DMZ location to land inbound LGfL services, such as VOIP and WIFI. If you have per user filtering then you can keep your own mechanism. If you don't and are willing to move to their subnets then you get it for free. On IP's: LGfL made a strategic error in not securing its own net block long ago - they are apparently very hard to come by now. A problem that they do face apparently is that they regularly are under DDOS attack both internally originated and externally, this has been a motivator for the lock down. Just musing now, but I do wonder why they didn't build the v2 service as ipv6 internally - every school is supposed to have its own ipv6 net block, then just NAT at the edges for v4 and peer with the v6 networks. /musing The real issue is their tendency for opacity, and a failure to understand that the end users of the service are significant stakeholders in their future now that 50% of their secondary school users are free to walk at the end of the contract and the other 50% could terminate on conversion to academy status. For those who attended the Nominated Contact training day and the LGfL 2 conference this opacity has diminished - but it remains. I applaud those who are taking a proactive and structured approach to getting LGfL to listen and adjust their policies to better meet the needs of their user base. While some of this work has to go on in the background it is really valuable to gain support through the public forums of the user base, and though this thread is mostly negative in tone it has generated the Survey over in the LGfL forum, hopefully this will help evidence our needs and strengthen the case for openness and flexibility in LGfL.
ict_support Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 I have to agree with John, the best move for the schools in LGFl is to step out manage your own line \ filtering \ firewall. I have done this with 3 schools now and they are all over the moon. Flexibility and being able to react are key to delivering a good IT service to support teaching and learning. We saved a heap of money in the process too.
Eric Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Who did you use as internet service provider? The last time I priced things up LGfL were pretty competitive ...
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