Managed or unmanaged wireless

[Chris_]

Morning all

 

I've been asked to look into replacing/increasing the wireless access points around our sports department as the current wireless is very poor and often doesn't work when PE teachers are trying to take registers ons SIMS. We currently have loads of standalone 3com access points around the site for wireless and they are less than ideal for the number of staff laptops that we now have.

 

It will only be a few access points (hall, gym, sports hall) and I don't think we'll be wanting to replace the whole school wireless, hopefully we'll be phasing out staff laptops over the next year in favour of fixed desktops in each of the classrooms.

 

So the question is, do we go down the route of managed wireless for 3 or 4 access points or just get standard access points like the HP V-M200?

 

Thanks.

[localzuk]

I'd say make a start with managed wireless, and then grow that system, replacing the other existing ones over time.

[plexer]

If you are only looking for a few access points and the cost of a traditional managed system would be high then you could look at the unify stuff from Ubiquiti.

 

Ben

[NikChillin]

I'd say make a start with managed wireless, and then grow that system, replacing the other existing ones over time.

Yes, I agree. We had a manaed wireless system that worked great until the Switch fell over, got a bit messy after that.

[Chris_]

If you are only looking for a few access points and the cost of a traditional managed system would be high then you could look at the unify stuff from Ubiquiti.

 

Ben

 

Ooo, this looks very interesting, might be the route to go down. Do you know any companies that will install cabling and supply these access points?

[plexer]

@M25Man has most experience deploying these devices I think.

 

But any installer can fit your cabling then you can use the supplied poe adaptors with them to juice them up.

 

Ben

[Chris_]

Are they supplied with POE injectors that you put in line between the switch and the AP?

[jamesreedersmith]

I also have a lot of experience with these as does the company i work for - i wont name it because thats against forum rules but they are fab - you have to plan placement carefully though for best coverage.

[NikChillin]

If you are only looking for a few access points and the cost of a traditional managed system would be high then you could look at the unify stuff from Ubiquiti.

 

Ben

 

That's interesting, haven't seen these before. The chance of us getting a managed switch are nil due to cost. The prices are reasonable too.

[plexer]

Are they supplied with POE injectors that you put in line between the switch and the AP?

 

Yes they are allthough I believe there is also an adaptor that you can purchase that will convert them into being usable with a standard POE switch and there is also supposed to be a pro version coming out that will have proper POE built in allthough that has been coming for a number of months now.

 

Ben

[plexer]

UniFi - Availability - Ubiquiti Networks Forum

 

Availability of products is listed there there is an outdoor ap coming this month according to that and they are still working on the PRO AP which would include POE.

 

Not sure why that would take so long as surely it's just a mod to their exsiting ranges.

 

Ben

[ShorehamGeek]

I've got 4 unifi access points installed, and am about to order more. The ones I ordered (ask @m25man) came with the POE injectors in the box. So far so amazing! Just to test, I installed 1 access point, and started streaming media on 16 devices (a mix of windows laptops, mac book, ipad, ipod touchs, and android various) concurrently. Not the most scientific test, but there was a general feeling of rock solid performance. I would have tested more, but ran out of wireless devices to connect! The free controller software seems excellent so far. Definitely worth a look.

[DAZZD88]

You may want to consider Meru wireless as well. I saw a demo at at Durham Network Managers meeting and boy did it impress. They also do a trade-in type thing. Can't remember the details of it but the gist of it was that they'd take your old equipment and knock money off the stuff they sell you.

[m25man]

There really is no point in going down the unmanaged route when Unifi is available.

We have deployed hundreds of these units now with excellent results and outstanding performance and reliability.

If the Unifi controller goes off line they will continue to work however you will loose guest services and other control functions just basic access.

PM me if you want more information or a guided tour of the management system.

[Flora]

@m25man

 

The unify solution seems fantastic, and was heading towards ordering a test one (guessing I'll never get a trial for such a cheap unit), but am deeply worried to discover they only have a 100mb ethernet port, which somewhat limits the potential of the N standard & their claims of throughput of 300mbps!

 

Have you experienced this causing a bottleneck in the schools you have installed this in? - I worry about future-proofing.

[ToyHeartsFan]

 

The unify solution seems fantastic, and was heading towards ordering a test one (guessing I'll never get a trial for such a cheap unit), but am deeply worried to discover they only have a 100mb ethernet port, which somewhat limits the potential of the N standard & their claims of throughput of 300mbps!

 

Have you experienced this causing a bottleneck in the schools you have installed this in? - I worry about future-proofing.

 

We only have a couple of 54g standalone access points in key places and this did look intresting but I noticed the lack of a gigabit NIC as well.

 

When I looked at it I did find a post somewhere (on their forum) saying that using 100mb wont cause a bottle neck because of various reasons, they said something along the lines of:

 

100mb lan is full duplex i.e 100mb in both directions - wireless isnt

 

the overheads in the access point (encryption etc) mean you will never get 300mbps anyway

 

sorry i cant remember what else they said off the top of my head

 

 

I'm not convinced myself but 300mbs is the theortical limit and without an N class access point that has a gigabit NIC I dont know how much data I could pull before saturating it in real world tests.

 

 

There are a lot of different options available now using competing tech and its getting quite confusing comparing them. I like the look of the one that puts all the access points on a single channel and you just keep adding more as needed which gets around the problem of overlapping channels interfering with each other but then again the price of this system is so low we could probably get basic coverage for our main building for less than it would cost to buy a management unit for the other solutions.

[m25man]

We use Unifi everywhere now, there is simply nothing to compete with it when based on performance/price per user.

 

Apart from the schools we have deployed it in and the schools that are installing it themselves I run it for the Staff/Press/Media in the Football Club where I provide managed services.

 

On a normal Matchday I will have 300 or so users across 14 AP's the most I have had on one point was 67 users after I rebooted an adjacent point by mistake!

No one even noticed.

 

How many laptops have you seen with 300MB MIMO as default? 20MHZ N only yields 65Mbps on all of the Laptops I have seen.

Ubiquiti are re-writing the rule books as they go with this kit and the budgets.

 

If you really need seamless cross campus roaming for your wifi IP phones then you need a blanket like Extricom or Meru.

If you need an auditorium of 200 delegates you might prefer Ruckus or Xirrus or any one of a hundred brand names.

 

If you need to deliver a quality wireless solution at a sensible price that won't make you cry every time you want to add another device you need to look at this product.

What you can't afford to do is ignore trying it out!

[Flora]

Thank you, your experience has made the decision much easier. I will order a few to tomorrow!

[m25man]

I wont waste time repeating what has been said elsewhere, I would suggest some more study, IEEE 802.11n-2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and 802.11n Speed - How Can I Get an 802.11n Wi-Fi Speed Rating of 300 Mbps?

 

The great N debate goes on and if you care to take a look at a 2.4Ghz 40Mhz N AP with spectrum analyser such as ssider you will see what is meant.

(I run my home Unifi N point at 40Mhz just to hack the neighbours off, I swamp the street with Max power hidden SSID at 40Mhz consuming Channels 1-7)

 

Apart from the fact that you are unlikely to have any clients that can actually connect above 65Mbps and the PHY layer only supports one MAC to MAC conversation anyway says it all.

You will NEVER bottleneck out a 100Mb ethernet port using a single 2.4Ghz Radio, when you start to combine multiple radios and Dual Bands and utilise multiple spatial streams for which your devices would need 3 antennas at least then you can start getting worried, but when Unifi start building AP's with Dual radios and Dual Band capability they will have Gigabit ports.

 

For now, if you need more throughput in a restricted area you simply deploy more AP's.

The controller will manage the power levels and channel control and effectively create Pico Cells. This requires some careful planning but in my media suite I have 3 x Unifi APs spaced over head and with a full house I can cope with 100 users without a problem, my bigger problem is I only have a 100Mb Internet connection!

Edited December 1, 2011 by m25man