Back Up Headache!

[rob_coles]

Every since our former network manager left our back up has never been quite right , must admit my knowledge of backup exec is very limited.

 

Techy specs,

 

Sony sdx 900v AIT 4 200 gig native 520 compressed (apparently )

Backup Exec 10d. 2003 server,

 

Our backup has gone up to 280 gig recently and is requesting a 2nd tape to complete, Is there any way to compress it more to reach the magical 520 gig mythical capacity.

I’m sure it will be a silly setting somewhere but I’m just lost with backup exec.

 

Any suggestions/advice welcomed.

 

Rob

[DMcCoy]

If its fitting 280 on a 200GB native tape then compression is on. I only get around 1.4:1 compression (=280)

[sidewinder]

You will not be able to get 520GB

However it sounds like it cannot even fit 280GB, which should be doable as DMcCoy says

 

If you want to check if compression is on in BackupExec, go to the properties of a job, then general settings and there should be a dropdown box saying compression type

 

Set it to hardware compression. I personally set it to "hardware, if available, otherwise software" - not sure how good an idea that is, but if your tape drive does hardware compression it doesnt matter anyway

[Geoff]

Hardware compression is fast but means you will not be able to read the tape in other make/models of tape drive.

 

Software compressions is slow but you will be able to read it elsewhere.

[rob_coles]

You will not be able to get 520GB,

 

I guest it wouldnt go that far but hoping it would get something close,

 

it was already at hardware if available software otherwise,

 

Considering getting a few of these network storage drives just for back up.

[sidewinder]

Hardware compression is fast but means you will not be able to read the tape in other make/models of tape drive.

 

Software compressions is slow but you will be able to read it elsewhere.

 

Didn't know that

Ive got an LTO-3 drive and use hardware, and always though it would use something standard to the LTO-3 format, not the make of the drive

[Geoff]

AFAIK there is no 'standard' for compression format on tape drives. Some software/hardware manufacturers use the same format due to gentleman's agreements or dumb luck but it's not something you can rely on.

[Stese]

backup exec (10d at least) can also create folders for disk backups.... You could use them to get out of a hole...

 

also, if the backup size has jumped, you might want to get something like treesize and check where all the space is being used... maybe it's for files that you'd rather not store on your network (MP3's, WMV's, WMA's etc)

 

I move any I find into a non-backed up place, just in case they are required for work purposes.... I rescued around 30gb from one year group when I first did it! (I've found that MS quota can get confused and not count all files)

[sidewinder]

Yeh, assuming you dont use R2's file screening or anything similar, a quick scan with Nasty File Search for MP3's can soon reduce your backup nicely

[phreak]

Why not deselect some of the less important stuff on the backup and then do a seperate backup for that data or just do a weekly seperate backup for that? Or have one backup for staff data and a seperate one for pupil data. Alternativly if you can't get compression to fit it on one disk then buy a bigger backup device.

[rob_coles]

thank you for your replies so far,

 

I thought I had excluded things like mp3s wma's etc It appears I was mistaken :S

 

 

Excludeded a load of files back in business

 

"R2's file screening"

 

Not sure what that is explain a little please sounds interesting

[ChrisH]

It allows you to stop them saving certain files into the areas you use it on. I stop them saving exe etc to their areas. It even catches it if they rename it then try and change it back.

[zag]

Look into using hard disks for backup, Tapes are an old style solution and not very versatile.

 

If you really are backing up 200gb+ of data I think you need to ask yourself is it all really mission critical data?

[tarquel]

Sorry to hijack this one, but the topic is exactly what I'm thinking lol

 

We just had a report back that tells us that our backup strategy is not good enough, so muggin's is gonna have to do some more work on the backup [...i got told that I could lose my job if i dont lol]

 

So, after having large headaches with trying to get ntbackup and scripts to use any tape in the drive and failing miserably, I was thinking that the best way would be to get some decent software and be done with it.

 

So the Backup Exec 10d you are refering to is Symantec's Backup Exec correct?

 

I'm look at these here - http://uk.insight.com/apps/nbs/index.php?C=111&S=101394&lang=en-gb&M=&OK=&K=exec&SB=plh&P=1 - but knowing exactly which one is the tricky part.

 

Let me describe what I have and what I need it to do, then perhaps you guys can suggest what I'll need

 

I have two networks - one with a DC/FS that has a HP DAT72i [takes 36GB tapes], and the other network has a DC/FS and a seperate Exchange 2l3 server, along with another server that replicates the AD, and will be a FS for a particular department.

 

I guess I am looking at 2 seperate copies of the software here then.

 

Off the top of my head, I need it to be able to do the following:

 

- Use the tape drive in the machine [dur ]

- Use *ANY* tape provided - this has been the biggest problem with NTBackup with having to have the exact same one each time that job is run

- Backup files "as is" to a external drive / share

- If possible, a way to backup the Exchange mailboxes / data

- Possibly replace my robocopy script that incrementally backs up the user files to a NAS drive

 

I wouldnt need any of this [minus the NAS box] if it wasnt for the "if there was a fire" aspect so I'm thinking of a periodic offsite backup tape that I could run every month say.

 

Basically, I want to be able to not have to worry about whether the software can do the tasks 'xyz' that I want it to do.

 

Is Backup Exec [11 is the latest now] the one for the job, or am I looking at a different product? A Acronis package maybe?

 

Any suggestions on this would be appreciated as i need to move fast on this

 

Regards

Nath

[mrforgetful]

I use five 500Gb external HDDs, two sets off and some spares kicking about. Cost me <£1000 so was loads cheaper than a Tape Library and will last until the servers are too full to work.

[tarquel]

That covers the backup of data but what about disaster recovery?

 

Or are you using something like Backup Exec to backup the data / image onto those HDDs?

 

Thats something i didnt mention, but it would be good if the said software enables you to make a set of backup tapes to restore the server fully - AD & everything, although I imagine we arent that lucky lol

 

I have about 35GB of pupil data and about 30GB of staff usage [need to grill the staff considering there is less than 30 of them lol].

 

The admin server only has about ~20GB of data needing to be backed up.

 

Actual system [windows, apps installed, network shared apps, etc] and pupil/staff data/work in total, I probably have about 100GB on the curriculum and ~30GB on the admin.

 

Not much to whack onto external drives and store, but if i can get something I can use to backup the whole lot periodically, that would be so much better.

 

Nath

[mrforgetful]

The HDD are only for disaster recovery and are taken off site each week.

 

Non disaster recovery tends to be taken care of by shadow copies.

 

All data, System States and Exchange is backed up using ntbackup.

 

SIMS database is the only thing using any other software and it's our old Retrospect 6.5 to the old Backup Server HDD then Retrospect 7.0 transfers it to tape - this is done daily and taken off site daily.

[tarquel]

Good stuff

 

But can anyone answer my questions in my earlier post about whether it can do the things I list?

 

Cheers

Nath.

[andyrite]

I run Backep Exec 10D. You will only need one copy of this plus agents for what you want to backup. (exchange etc etc) You just install the agent on the system you want to backup.

 

I've got a 3.3TB Eonstor raid array. I backup everything to the disk first then duplicate to tape. Works really well as you can restore files without having to find a tape. The tapes become backups of the backups.

 

It will do most of the things you want apart from replace your robocopy script.

 

 

If you need any more info let me know

 

Andy

[zag]

Bakupexec will do everything you require. If it is a new solution definitely go with hard disks, tapes just don't cut it any more.

 

Backupexec runs agents on servers/computers. Simply select the computer from the list and click the remote computer running the agent. From there you can backup, files, directories, shares or the complete system state (ad, registry, services ect). I have done a recovery from this and it was simple and worked perfectly. The server was up and running in a matter of hours after a complete hard disk failure in its original form. Just installed 2003 server again, and restored over that in restore safe mode.

 

Other questions -

 

- Just run an inventory on any tape and you can restore it's contents

- It has drivers for virtually any tape drive, or you can use the manufacturers if that doesn't work.

- Backupexec has an exchange feature that you have to pay extra for. It can backup an entire mail store, or even individual mailboxes, or public folders

- And best of all it does not have the daylight savings time bug that stops scheduled backups every time the clocks go forward or back

[tarquel]

So is having all the data from all the drives and the systemstate enough to do a complete restore then?

 

I've never been 100% on it - never had the time to look I guess

 

 

Well, anyway, as far as the software goes, I've had a quote for Symantec Backup Exec 11d for what we have, and it came to about a grand, so along with the deputy / ict co saying No to the software purchase before I had got the quote, and the head who previously said yes, but now knows that its gonna be more than a few hundred...

 

I'll guess I'll have to continue to fiddle with my ntbackup scripts....

 

mrforgetful's idea seems most logical now....

 

40GB external HDDs must be cheap yes?

 

buy five and rotate them each day for overnight backup - and if small enough I can keep them in my small fireproof safe.

 

Just a shame to waste the tape drives in both servers.

 

If we had a external HDD system going, then I could still use the tape every term to run a backup I think.

 

EDIT: A quick look reveals this:

 

http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=FRC27028&nbs_search=lang%3Den-gb%26C%3D112%26S%3D400068%26K%3D%26M%3D%26SB%3Dplh

 

The HDD in the server is only a 36GB SCSI so should be ok with a 40GB? [single backup on each drive]

 

Hope you are following this, because I'm not sure I am now lol

 

Ta.

Nath

[rob_coles]

We looked at a back up server , the idea of having a load of big hd's,

 

we've finally got the backup to a reasonable size (working )

 

Thanks for your tips/suggestions.

[Grommit]

Yeh, assuming you dont use R2's file screening or anything similar, a quick scan with Nasty File Search for MP3's can soon reduce your backup nicely

 

Nasty File Search seems not to work...

 

Back on topic... I had the smae issue.. always battling the tape size and massive amounts of house keeping for data to fit onto the 150GB tape... .... then Media Studies started!!... blew my tapes out of the water... heh heh

 

So I bought a 2TB Raid 5 Buffalo TeraStation for £650 and problems solved :-)

 

http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=BUFNA04O5E&nbs_search=K%3Dterastation%26x%3D46%26y%3D11

 

1/ What needs to be backed up for a DC with FMSO roles to be rebuilt if the Server dies and you have just a raw copy of Server 2003 freshly installed ?

 

2/ What is Disaster Recovery ? what the difference between a Backup and Disaster Recovery.. as I hear some Network Managers have other Servers stashed somewhere or replicating ?

 

3/ SIMS whats the best way and program to protect SIMS so if it dies or the server dies how would it be restored on another server or totally restored on the original server?

[zag]

So is having all the data from all the drives and the systemstate enough to do a complete restore then?

 

Yes, just click the sys-state option on any computer, and backup the c: drive. When you come to restoring it, install a blank 2003 server, then restore the c: drive bits, then run "safe mode restore" by pressing F8 on boot, and restore the systate bits. It really is nice and easy and worked perfectly for us when our main DC went kaput.

 

Well, anyway, as far as the software goes, I've had a quote for Symantec Backup Exec 11d for what we have, and it came to about a grand, so along with the deputy / ict co saying No to the software purchase before I had got the quote, and the head who previously said yes, but now knows that its gonna be more than a few hundred...

 

Show them what would happen if you lost all the data, quantify the loss of teaching time, money to get it restored, and time. Then explain backupexec will fix all this. It really isnt worth struggling with the NT cut down version.

 

buy five and rotate them each day for overnight backup - and if small enough I can keep them in my small fireproof safe.

 

No need for full backup everynight, we do a full every 2 weeks and incremental each night. This puts less strain on your server and reduces the risk of it malfunctioning

 

Just a shame to waste the tape drives in both servers.

Tapes = 1990's

[DMcCoy]

There is nothing wrong with tapes!

 

I have found tapes to be reliable, fast and flexible. I have up to 35 full backup instances between two servers. I backup to a NAS as home and it is at least three times slower than my lto2 drive. How many HDDs do you keep offsite, how many does it need for a full restore?

 

How far back do your backups go? I have 12 monthly tapes, 4 weekly, 4 daily shadow copy *and* last years tapes.