New PC

[glennda]

Currently Looking at getting myself a new pc - looking along the lines of below - what do people think?

 

Mainly use it for running vm's and the like - not really a gamer though.

 

AMD Phenpm II X6 Six-Core (1100T) 3.3GHz Proc

ASUS SKT-AM3+ M5A88-V EVO S/V/L

Corsair Dominator 8192MB (2x4096MB) Memory Module

RADEON HD 6750 1GB

Antec EarthWatts EA-650 Green - Power supply ( ...

OCZ 120GB Vertex 2E SSD - Solid State Drive

Western Digital Cavier Green 1TB SATA 32MB

Antec Sonata Elite Super Mini Tower (Black)

 

What do people think - any recommendations alterations?

[john]

Don't get the Green range of WD HDDs I've not read nice things about them, stick to the Blue or Black range instead.

[glennda]

Ill look into them - the enterprise disks might be a good shout - got a whole load of them at worldm sms they are rock solid.

 

Anything else?

[glennda]

Also im not fussed on that case anybody recommend one?

[john]

Lian-Li

[nicklec]

Fractal cases are pretty neat, lots of sound proofing etc as standard.

 

Why bother with an AMD cpu? I would love to support AMD but their CPUs are garbage compared to Intel; also your better off getting a higher speed CPU that has less cores, at some point programmers will catch up with multi-threading but if the cores are weak anyway....

[Arthur]

AMD Phenom II X6 Six-Core (1100T) 3.3GHz Proc

With AMDs new Bulldozer processors being released next month (click here for a list of models), you would have to be mad to buy an AMD CPU now.

 

Asus SKT-AM3+ M5A88-V EVO S/V/L

Unless you need the additional PCI Express slots, I would choose a mATX motherboard since this would enable you to get a smaller case. e.g. M5A88-M EVO

 

Radeon HD 6750 1GB

If you aren't going to play games, the integrated graphics (Radeon HD 4250) will be fine and the money saved could be put towards another 8GB RAM for a total of 16GB (4x4GB).

 

Western Digital Cavier Green 1TB SATA 32MB

As others have said, don't bother with the WD Green drives.

[glennda]

If you aren't going to play games, the integrated graphics (Radeon HD 4250) will be fine and the money saved could be put towards another 8GB RAM for a total of 16GB (4x4GB).

 

Sorry should bacs mentioned - going to be doing video editing add the likes so need a decent graphics card.

 

Ill lookup the bulldozer range - are they doing to be am3?

[Arthur]

I'll lookup the Bulldozer range - are they doing to be AM3?

Bulldozer will be AM3+. The Asus motherboard you selected above will be compatible, but may require a BIOS update when the new processors are officially released.

 

Edit. For the sake of an extra £10 I would get the Asus M5A99X EVO (990FX chipset) as this is guaranteed to be compatible with AMDs forthcoming eight-core FX-81x0 processors.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Arthur

[glennda]

Bulldozer will be AM3+. The Asus motherboard you selected above will be compatible, but may require a BIOS update when the new processors are officially released.

 

awesome will look them up

[Effluo]

Would reiterate most of what Arthur has said, regarding the GPU especially. I've heard about Bulldozer, but I'm not completely up to date with the current market so I cannot comment.

 

I would add that the PSU that you've selected is complete overkill. Even a good(Corsair 80+ £35) 400watt PSU would be loads for that PC (as long as you weren't planning on upgrading the GPU at later date)

 

I see you had specced 8GB's of RAM in your initial post and others are talking about upgrading that to 16GB!!! Personally I've never needed more than 4GB, anything over 6GB will probably never be used unless of course you're doing some specific task which will make use of it, generally it would be a waste.

 

On Intel vs. AMD, in laptops it's very hard to have a reason to go with AMD unless you're looking for a cheap gaming laptop with Llano, but with desktops AMD are very very competitive and often better value when you consider it's price/performance

 

 

In terms of a case, just get something for about £40, avoid a case with lots of plastics and lights at that price with a couple of fans and dust filters hopefully

See something you like, then google it and see what the reviews of it are.

7350041080565 Fractal Design Core 1000 Case

 

I can't find many reviews of the case, but it seems like something that could work for you and tbh, I really quite like the way it looks in all black. I wouldn't call it sleek, but it's pretty raw and would get the job done

 

Core 1000 Computer Case

[glennda]

I need 8gb ram as min minimum as running multiple vm's at home - remember server 2008 r2 doesn't run great enless its got more then 2gb ram - which it will eat easily and then running more then 1 of them at a time thats 4 gb gone! i also run my vm web servers at home for testing hence the reason for 8gb.

 

When comparing the amd to intel I7 is alot more expensive top of the range when compared to the AMD - i've purchased a few of the 1100T 6 core procs for friends and they are great

i'm looking at the fractal cases at the moment as the one above the one you mention looks really good

[SYNACK]

I'd also suggest 16GB, for virtualisation it is probably the first area that will become a constraint, I'd also keep the decent PSU, something with 80-85%+ certification as they are more efficient and when they are not heavily loaded run cooler, last longer and provide more stable power for a longer lasting, more stable PC. Putting a cheap PSU in is like buying budget tires for a ferrari and expecting it to hold the road well.

 

As to the CPU's one thing that might be worth looking gor is VT-d support which can do some quite cool things with virtualisation. It allows you to redirect hardware from the physical machine to a VM so with a couple of GPUs and VMWare you could run an extra VM with direct access to a GPU and assisoated ports on the back, couple this with USB port mapping and you should be able to make it into two or more distinct computers for testing which at there core are actually VMs running off the one machine. I think that AMD has this extention now but it is called AMD-Vi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization#Intel_virtualization_.28VT-x.29 you'll need a motherboard that supports it though.

y you

[Effluo]

I think the op knows all about the importance of good power supplies considering choosing an Antec Earthwatts in the original spec, it is very important to get a high efficiency and reliable PSU, but there's no point in getting more watts than you would ever need.

 

corsair 400watt - Google Search

 

This PSU is amazing value for what it is and will offer more than enough power for the ops machine

[Arthur]

I see you had specced 8GB's of RAM in your initial post and others are talking about upgrading that to 16GB!!!

16GB is the new 8GB.

 

Considering how cheap it is at the moment, I would definitely go with 16GB too. 8GB costs approx. £31-£35 for two 4GB DDR3-1333 DIMMs (P/N: KVR1333D3N9K2/8G).

 

Kingston RAM is currently the best in terms of reliability.

[mac_shinobi]

16GB is the new 8GB.

 

Considering how cheap it is at the moment, I would definitely go with 16GB too. 8GB costs approx. £31-£35 for two 4GB DDR3-1333 DIMMs (P/N: KVR1333D3N9K2/8G).

 

Kingston RAM is currently the best in terms of reliability.

 

Totally agree - purchased a 16gb kit for my Mac Pro ( although they were FB DIMMS so obviously a lot more expensive ) but am agreeing with your 8gb is the new 16gb comment

[Effluo]

Well still, the max I would recommend for a regular user who doesn't have a specific use like the op is 6GB and that is the most.

 

My PC at home is used for all sorts of tasks with windows vista and never goes over 3.5GB of usage. And that's the memory hungry Vista, playing hardware intensive games xD

 

There's no point in getting more than 6GB of RAM(cheap or not) unless you do have a specific need which will actually use it like the op.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Effluo

[SYNACK]

Well still, the max I would recommend for a regular user who doesn't have a specific use like the op is 6GB and that is the most.

 

My PC at home is used for all sorts of tasks with windows vista and never goes over 3.5GB of usage. And that's the memory hungry Vista, playing hardware intensive games xD

 

There's no point in getting more than 6GB of RAM(cheap or not) unless you do have a specific need which will actually use it like the op.

 

We have a 4GB minimum on all new PCs and thats just workstations. For virtualisation, HD video editing, 3d rendering, big image manipulation etc the extra RAM helps and if you have a decent OS (Vista or above) and no SSD the extra RAM can make the machine way more responcive if you use a bunch of heavy apps, even just one at a time. My little media NAS has 4GB of RAM for cache etc as it runs distributed computation apps that can benifit from more RAM and it also has some web services stuff on it. Add in a lifetime of several years and 8GB now is a reasonable minimum if you don't want to be upgrading it in a year.

 

Are you using the 32bit version of Vista? That coule explain the 3.5GB maximum.

[localzuk]

I think the op knows all about the importance of good power supplies considering choosing an Antec Earthwatts in the original spec, it is very important to get a high efficiency and reliable PSU, but there's no point in getting more watts than you would ever need.

 

corsair 400watt - Google Search

 

This PSU is amazing value for what it is and will offer more than enough power for the ops machine

 

AMD state that the 6750 card has a requirement of at least 450W. So, 450W for the card to be happy, then add in a bit more for the rest of the system and you soon hit 550W+

 

Its just good practice to spec a larger PSU than absolutely necessary, that way you give yourself room to manoeuvre should you want to do something like Crossfire or add extra HDDs in the future.

[Effluo]

We have a 4GB minimum on all new PCs and thats just workstations. For virtualisation, HD video editing, 3d rendering, big image manipulation etc the extra RAM helps and if you have a decent OS (Vista or above) and no SSD the extra RAM can make the machine way more responcive if you use a bunch of heavy apps, even just one at a time. My little media NAS has 4GB of RAM for cache etc as it runs distributed computation apps that can benifit from more RAM and it also has some web services stuff on it. Add in a lifetime of several years and 8GB now is a reasonable minimum if you don't want to be upgrading it in a year.

 

Again nearly all of those uses you talk about are still very specific. I'm talking about the general PC user, they would never need any of those things. Maybe the most commonly used thing you have mentioned(big image manipulation) more than likely wouldn't go over 3-3.5GB. Even then big image manipulation wouldn't be very common or a very oftenly used function of a PC by a regular user. Even 3GB on Windows 7 would be the perfect amount for 90%(guessimate) of people.

 

The point on upgrading too - There's no such thing as future proofing PC's and if there are ever cases where future proofing is possible, it's usually only on adding an extra port which you may need in the future or something like that. Having more RAM that you won't be using now is not a good idea and would certainly be fruitless for most people.

 

 

 

AMD state that the 6750 card has a requirement of at least 450W. So, 450W for the card to be happy, then add in a bit more for the rest of the system and you soon hit 550W+

Its just good practice to spec a larger PSU than absolutely necessary, that way you give yourself room to manoeuvre should you want to do something like Crossfire or add extra HDDs in the future.

 

facepalm.jpg

 

Seriously, the biggest mistake that IT professional and Tech-noobs alike make when looking at computers, computer hardware or indeed any technical goods, is actually reading what's on the box written from the manufacturer... Nearly all of it is just marketing bull, although that's not why AMD tell you you need a 450+Watt PSU to run this card. They just about double the actual usage need for all their components to facilitate for the crappy PSU's on the market some of which only offer half of their stated power.

 

Example:

Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB Vapor-X Video Card Review - Power Consumption Tests :: TweakTown USA Edition

Here's a benchmark for the more powerful & slightly more power hungry 6770 GPU(presumed). The readings are for the total system power consumption, which has some rather power hungry components in it. So it's a pretty good idea of how much of a PSU would need whether adding in extra hard-drives or whatever. In this test system the max power consumed(full load) was only 263watts(188w Idle) which would be about 61% of the rated wattage of the PSU I recommended, right in the sweet spot of efficiency with lots and lots of power spare for more hard-drives

[mac_shinobi]

I normally get a Decent 600 Watt PSU that way I am covered for the graphics card, motherboard a few hard drives, couple of optical drives and some other bits although saying that the computer I have already has 1000 Watt PSU - not sure what make or how good it is but has lasted 3 years nearly so can't be that bad. Before everyone slates this post yes I have an early 2008 mac pro and yes I know how most swear at them and not by them

[localzuk]

facepalm.jpg

 

Seriously, the biggest mistake that IT professional and Tech-noobs alike make when looking at computers, computer hardware or indeed any technical goods, is actually reading what's on the box written from the manufacturer... Nearly all of it is just marketing bull, although that's not why AMD tell you you need a 450+Watt PSU to run this card. They just about double the actual usage need for all their components to facilitate for the crappy PSU's on the market some of which only offer half of their stated power.

 

Example:

Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB Vapor-X Video Card Review - Power Consumption Tests :: TweakTown USA Edition

Here's a benchmark for the more powerful & slightly more power hungry 6770 GPU(presumed). The readings are for the total system power consumption, which has some rather power hungry components in it. So it's a pretty good idea of how much of a PSU would need whether adding in extra hard-drives or whatever. In this test system the max power consumed(full load) was only 263watts(188w Idle) which would be about 61% of the rated wattage of the PSU I recommended, right in the sweet spot of efficiency with lots and lots of power spare for more hard-drives

 

Slight issue with your view there - say you face an issue with the card, and you are not following the minimum specs stated by the manufacturer. What will they say first? 'Lets work through a bunch of possible reasons, ignoring that you have not bothered to follow our advice in the first place'? or 'You need to get a better power supply, per the instructions on the box.'

 

Just like if you use a compatible toner cartridge and then have an unrelated issue with your printer, no manufacturer will repair without trying to blame the compatible toner cartridge.

 

So, regardless of what you think of the blurb put by the manufacturer, there are reasons to follow their advice.

 

Plus, for the sake of future-proofing, and basically £20, why spec a small PSU?

[Effluo]

Slight issue with your view there - say you face an issue with the card, and you are not following the minimum specs stated by the manufacturer. What will they say first?

 

wut?

 

If you had an issue with the card, then it wouldn't be the PSU(unless it was a faulty part) in this prospective machine and the GPU manufacturers would know that. Although they put a rating on the box to stop people from buying a PSU which can't handle the system, they themselves are not ignorant to the power actually needed to run their components.

 

Either way that's a pretty irrelevant argument considering if your GPU is dead, your GPU is dead. You RMA it and that's it.

 

 

There's no way I'm going to get into a post battle with you, comparing a PC's PSU and a Printer's Toner and arguing that your warranty would be somehow invalid? Mate, really no offence, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

On the point of buying a bigger PSU for a future build. Well that's not an altogether ridiculous idea, BUT what I would say is that pretty much the only people who would ever need to buy a PSU bigger than 400watt are people with a mad amount of hard-drives or gamers who have high powered GPU's(2GPU's or 1 very high end).

If you don't see yourself as ever being either of those two types of user, then you simply won't need the extra power.

What should also be noted is that PSU's efficiency is usually at it's highest when being used around it's mid range of power output. So it's actually better to buy the, "just right" amount of power with a reasonable overhead than to "overbuy" and then lose out when the electricity comes.

 

P.S. The higher end ones will often contradict this and be of a very high efficiency through all power outputs.

 

P.P.S.

I don't claim to be an expert in computer building and buying, but I've got a huge interest in computer hardware and more specifically the computer hardware marketplace. I've helped spec up hundreds of PC's and conducted a study into the same. I'm no expert, but I know what I know

Edited August 19, 2011 by Effluo
P.P.S.

[mac_shinobi]

just my £0.02 but

 

1. if you buy a PSU of decent make and reasonable wattage ie I would say 500 or 600 watts ( I normally go for 600 )

 

a. If you upgrade later on ie more hard drives, better graphics card or whatever then it will give you the extra wattage to do so

b. If you do go with a 400 Watt one and your graphics card you have or get in the future or you want to buy extra hard drives and you require a PSU with more wattage then you have to ditch the current 400 W one and fork out more money for another higher rated wattage PSU hence future proofing

 

Am not trying to argue just saying that I prefer to try and future proof to a degree where possible to give myself some room to do so without having to fork out further money which I could of done at the start by an extra £30 or so in the first place to give me a 600 watt vs a 400 watt psu

 

Either way I have not built a PC for quite some time.

[Effluo]

Tbh Mac_Shinobi, I didn't mean to debate with you at all. (I read your post but figured you wanted to be left alone with your 1Kw PSU )

 

Either way, I'm not sure if you're aware but a hard-drive uses around 10watts... Considering that most computers on full load would use less than 240watts and less than 200 in idle... Well I don't know how many hard-drives you'd want, but there's still a lot of room left over.

 

Regarding the GPU, though I said in my last post that it's very much up to the person and their use. Obviously you must be a gamer talking about switching and swapping GPU's, but as I said in the previous post...

 

...the only people who would ever need to buy a PSU bigger than 400watt are people with a mad amount of hard-drives or gamers who have high powered GPU's(2GPU's or 1 very high end).

 

btw about your 1Kw PSU, I hope for your sake it cost you in excess of £100, because if it didn't I'd fear not only for the PSU, but for your whole PC. Cheap PSU's(relative to their wattage) lack some security features and their poor performance can actually put stress on components and even short your whole system :/

You don't have to spend big money to get a good PSU, but you might have to spend big money cleaning up the mess a cheap PSU could leave you...