Effluo

375 views... 0 replies... NOBODY KNOWS!!! ahhhhhhhh

The thing is that I've never once said that you should choose a PSU which will give you no overhead. I've in fact said that you do need a decent amount of overhead throughout this thread. So please can people stop putting words into my mouth, it's happened around 3 or 4 times now... Reread my posts, I'm not suggesting anything mad here. Also @@synack claiming that my whole line of argument is faulty... wut? Please reread before trying to justify that statement, we've been talking about a wide range of things on this thread and if I ever mentioned the regular user then it would have just been in reference to what someone else had said. The only non-average thing about the op in terms of need for PC hardware is that she would apparently benefit from having more than 4GB of RAM. Most of this last bit of conversation has been about PSU's and anything I've said on that has been very valid and relevant. Also, I do appreciate that people do have their own experiences and I'm completely open to that, because I love learning more about these things and I yearn for any constructive input. BUT some posters here are just trying to defend what themselves in their own set ways whether right or wrong. Repeatedly showing that they have put no effort into actually researching the thing and then augmenting any benchmarks they have used just to try and justify their own decision. Laughable, then some other guy comes in showing another how he misread the benchmarks and he still tries to twist it to agree with himself, while completely ignoring what I've said throughout the thread. Not to mention trying to make out that I've said things when I haven't. A lot of IT people do this, they talk about things they know very little about while thinking they know a lot, because they know more than the common man and they can usually get away with bluffing 90% of the time. After the kind of attitude that's been displayed in this thread by some people, then the unfortunate conclusion that I come to will be that this guy no matter how clear the evidence or logic suggests will never back down from their position for the sake of not backing down, some kind of man pride. :/ I'm really not interested though As I've said already, I don't have time to readdress what I've already said... Have a nice Saturday o/

Some people just don't want to be saved xD

Anyone in the know, knows that those calculators are rubbish. If you actually do a bit of googling and research yourself you'll find that out. There's no agreeing or disagreeing on how much power these components use, it's all there in writing from results conducted by experts if you go looking for it. It's not just someone talking bull on a forum it's fact. I don't mean to sound like an ass here, big headed or whatever, but I do know what I'm talking about. I've got quite a bit of experience and done a lot of research regarding computer hardware and specifically getting the best PC for your needs and budget. This thread is quickly disintegrating into some kind of post battle, which I can assure you I will not be partaking in. This is supposed to be about the op trying to get a new PC, it's not about who's right, who's actually providing solid background to what they're saying or who actually has experience doing this hundreds of times... You can choose to disagree all you like, that's fine, I'm not fussed, but it's ruining the thread and for the op's sake, it should be dropped. k o/

I'm not suggesting to anyone that they try to drive at 120mph in a 1.4litre Engine Car. Similarly it would be a bad idea to run a PSU or any machine at it's max load all the time(Unless it was designed for it of course). This is, however once again completely irrelevant to this case. I'm proposing a 430watt PSU for a PC which would have a need for around 260watts max... Alright? That's about 60-65% when in full load and completely acceptable. I really don't have the time to continuously repeat what I've said over and over again. ...

Tbh Mac_Shinobi, I didn't mean to debate with you at all. (I read your post but figured you wanted to be left alone with your 1Kw PSU ) Either way, I'm not sure if you're aware but a hard-drive uses around 10watts... Considering that most computers on full load would use less than 240watts and less than 200 in idle... Well I don't know how many hard-drives you'd want, but there's still a lot of room left over. Regarding the GPU, though I said in my last post that it's very much up to the person and their use. Obviously you must be a gamer talking about switching and swapping GPU's, but as I said in the previous post... btw about your 1Kw PSU, I hope for your sake it cost you in excess of £100, because if it didn't I'd fear not only for the PSU, but for your whole PC. Cheap PSU's(relative to their wattage) lack some security features and their poor performance can actually put stress on components and even short your whole system :/ You don't have to spend big money to get a good PSU, but you might have to spend big money cleaning up the mess a cheap PSU could leave you...

wut? If you had an issue with the card, then it wouldn't be the PSU(unless it was a faulty part) in this prospective machine and the GPU manufacturers would know that. Although they put a rating on the box to stop people from buying a PSU which can't handle the system, they themselves are not ignorant to the power actually needed to run their components. Either way that's a pretty irrelevant argument considering if your GPU is dead, your GPU is dead. You RMA it and that's it. There's no way I'm going to get into a post battle with you, comparing a PC's PSU and a Printer's Toner and arguing that your warranty would be somehow invalid? Mate, really no offence, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. On the point of buying a bigger PSU for a future build. Well that's not an altogether ridiculous idea, BUT what I would say is that pretty much the only people who would ever need to buy a PSU bigger than 400watt are people with a mad amount of hard-drives or gamers who have high powered GPU's(2GPU's or 1 very high end). If you don't see yourself as ever being either of those two types of user, then you simply won't need the extra power. What should also be noted is that PSU's efficiency is usually at it's highest when being used around it's mid range of power output. So it's actually better to buy the, "just right" amount of power with a reasonable overhead than to "overbuy" and then lose out when the electricity comes. P.S. The higher end ones will often contradict this and be of a very high efficiency through all power outputs. P.P.S. I don't claim to be an expert in computer building and buying, but I've got a huge interest in computer hardware and more specifically the computer hardware marketplace. I've helped spec up hundreds of PC's and conducted a study into the same. I'm no expert, but I know what I know

Again nearly all of those uses you talk about are still very specific. I'm talking about the general PC user, they would never need any of those things. Maybe the most commonly used thing you have mentioned(big image manipulation) more than likely wouldn't go over 3-3.5GB. Even then big image manipulation wouldn't be very common or a very oftenly used function of a PC by a regular user. Even 3GB on Windows 7 would be the perfect amount for 90%(guessimate) of people. The point on upgrading too - There's no such thing as future proofing PC's and if there are ever cases where future proofing is possible, it's usually only on adding an extra port which you may need in the future or something like that. Having more RAM that you won't be using now is not a good idea and would certainly be fruitless for most people. facepalm.jpg Seriously, the biggest mistake that IT professional and Tech-noobs alike make when looking at computers, computer hardware or indeed any technical goods, is actually reading what's on the box written from the manufacturer... Nearly all of it is just marketing bull, although that's not why AMD tell you you need a 450+Watt PSU to run this card. They just about double the actual usage need for all their components to facilitate for the crappy PSU's on the market some of which only offer half of their stated power. Example: Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB Vapor-X Video Card Review - Power Consumption Tests :: TweakTown USA Edition Here's a benchmark for the more powerful & slightly more power hungry 6770 GPU(presumed). The readings are for the total system power consumption, which has some rather power hungry components in it. So it's a pretty good idea of how much of a PSU would need whether adding in extra hard-drives or whatever. In this test system the max power consumed(full load) was only 263watts(188w Idle) which would be about 61% of the rated wattage of the PSU I recommended, right in the sweet spot of efficiency with lots and lots of power spare for more hard-drives

Well still, the max I would recommend for a regular user who doesn't have a specific use like the op is 6GB and that is the most. My PC at home is used for all sorts of tasks with windows vista and never goes over 3.5GB of usage. And that's the memory hungry Vista, playing hardware intensive games xD There's no point in getting more than 6GB of RAM(cheap or not) unless you do have a specific need which will actually use it like the op.

I think the op knows all about the importance of good power supplies considering choosing an Antec Earthwatts in the original spec, it is very important to get a high efficiency and reliable PSU, but there's no point in getting more watts than you would ever need. corsair 400watt - Google Search This PSU is amazing value for what it is and will offer more than enough power for the ops machine

Or they could just use the space bar... -_- And if only they had a HDMI port xD (I almost forgot about that) Just for the record, I'm not an Apple basher and on a more serious note, I was reading a very interesting article the other day on the Samsung Tab being stopped from being sold and how Samsung now have a conundrum what they could do with now that they have a big lawsuit to save a product which is failing anyway. The article also talked briefly about the tablet pc market and how manufacturers are finding it so difficult to put their finger on what makes the Apple iPad such a success. It just has no stand out feature, it's an utterly confusing product for me and clearly for all manufacturers too. The fact that so many brilliant tablet PC's have been brought out yet Apple still retains 80% of the total market share. If I find a link to the article I'll post it here later

Would reiterate most of what Arthur has said, regarding the GPU especially. I've heard about Bulldozer, but I'm not completely up to date with the current market so I cannot comment. I would add that the PSU that you've selected is complete overkill. Even a good(Corsair 80+ £35) 400watt PSU would be loads for that PC (as long as you weren't planning on upgrading the GPU at later date) I see you had specced 8GB's of RAM in your initial post and others are talking about upgrading that to 16GB!!! Personally I've never needed more than 4GB, anything over 6GB will probably never be used unless of course you're doing some specific task which will make use of it, generally it would be a waste. On Intel vs. AMD, in laptops it's very hard to have a reason to go with AMD unless you're looking for a cheap gaming laptop with Llano, but with desktops AMD are very very competitive and often better value when you consider it's price/performance In terms of a case, just get something for about £40, avoid a case with lots of plastics and lights at that price with a couple of fans and dust filters hopefully See something you like, then google it and see what the reviews of it are. 7350041080565 Fractal Design Core 1000 Case I can't find many reviews of the case, but it seems like something that could work for you and tbh, I really quite like the way it looks in all black. I wouldn't call it sleek, but it's pretty raw and would get the job done Core 1000 Computer Case

Something I certainly hadn't considered. I guess getting the teachers to push the students to shut down the computers will be a task in itself though Well worth it of course. Thanks for the added insight SSD's get another +1 XD

I don't know where you're getting the impression that I'm suggesting that, "one size fits all". Most of my research and the work I do and done in the past involves getting the right PC and the best value for the specific user's needs. Have I worked in Education? No, is it relevant? Yes totally, but not necessarily with what we're talking about here. We're talking about computer hardware and it's price performance benefits, value to the end user, this is something which I've been working and studying/researching for a number of years. I figure, when buying or building a new computer, for an organisation or just for yourself you should first look at the specific needs, secondly look at the budget and then look at the benchmarks. That's how you get the best value and the process doesn't change no matter what organisation you're in. I also noticed there that you spoke about futureproofing and how software will work with software in 4 years from now? Well sadly future-proofing, well it doesn't really exist. If there is any kind of future-proofing example they tend to come in very minor forms. (ie USB 3.0 - 2nd PCI-E slot for future GPU improvement) Finally you're calling me presumptious, well I am not so sure about that, but I am really quite sceptical that i5's will lead to an improvement of students as you said it, "learning things" :/ That doesn't make any sense to me

I completely agree and you're dead right that SSD are the only upgrade which will make a significant difference to the daily speed in running ALL the PC's in a school and that they would be a much smarter investment than i5's, but both are still overkill when you look at the price : performance ratio. If this were the case, then SSD would be a no-brainer and a good investment, but considering the prices you quoted on the op in your other thread.(£56) And considering you could buy 250GB Samsung F3's (some of the fastest disc drives going) for around £25 each, you'll find that your SSD's cost over twice as much. (unless I'm missing something) Around £30/machine, if you can afford to have only 40GB of storage it's not a bad upgrade, not a bad upgrade at all. Although, there would still be a decision to be made and I can respect that you felt it was worth it, but I'd take a bit more convincing. It's certainly a close one

I work for an IT reseller and have been a computer hardware enthusiast for years, somewhat obsessed with getting the best bang for your buck. Before working for the reseller I did a bit of a study into the computer hardware marketplace, found and documented huge widely effecting issues from the top Manufacturers and resellers. I believe that most IT professionals and consumers alike take far too much of what's on the box as fact. Sadly there's little "information" from any computer hardware manufcaturer which isn't pure marketing tripe. The only way to actually get a good idea of the real performance/value is to look at benchmarks from independent review sites and individuals from forums. Something else that I've learned from my research in terms of performance, is the obscene amounts of money spent on computer hardware by everyone most of which corresponds to a very small increase in performance, real time speed increases and reliability. I don't know much about classroom management or how easily implemented having one room for Media work is, but I would certainly baulk at the idea of having i5 processors in every PC in the school would be a good investment. SSD's are the only upgrade which would give a really noticeable speed increase right across the board. For me however, even SSD's are overkill for school's computers. For instance I would never recommend a SSD to a regular PC user, in fact, the only people I'd ever recommend a SSD to are computer hardware enthusiast or someone who either has a specific need or a load of money to burn on eeking out every last bit of performance... @localzuk My advice to you would be to actually check out the benchmarks, look at how the i5 beats the i3 at rendering an image or something by a couple of seconds, then compare those few seconds to the thousands of pounds extra that would be spent on them. As I said, I wouldn't recommend a SSD or an i5 to a regular PC user, nor to a school, it's not needed... Edit: Use the money saved on training for the computer illiterate teachers, so far it seems to me as the biggest issues regarding IT in schools is that teachers not knowing how to work the technology they already have.