webman Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Our new-look Durham County Council pay slips now refer to us as 'NON TEACHING'. I remember a post on here a while ago on here about how the non-teaching term describes our roles as what we don't do as opposed to what we are and do - support staff. It's not as if teacher pay slips are addressed as 'NON SUPPORT' :x Bossman & I are a bit annoyed at this. We keep being told it's 'one level playing field' between all school staff, yet how can his happen when the segregation is instigated from County? What does your LEA refer to you as?
Midget Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 "Useless T*$$er" I knew I shouldn't have stood up that payroll girl
webman Posted March 30, 2007 Author Posted March 30, 2007 GOD I wish.. Atleast that's more accurate 8)
gwendes Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Our new-look Durham County Council pay slips now refer to us as 'NON TEACHING'. I remember a post on here a while ago on here about how the non-teaching term describes our roles as what we don't do as opposed to what we are and do - support staff. It's not as if teacher pay slips are addressed as 'NON SUPPORT' :x Bossman & I are a bit annoyed at this. We keep being told it's 'one level playing field' between all school staff, yet how can his happen when the segregation is instigated from County? What does your LEA refer to you as? I wouldn't be offended. After all, the institution you work for is one that teaches and you do not teach. Just as- if you worked for an IT company and were employed in admin it would be acceptable to be referred to as non-technical. Non-admin would sound strange as the focus of the company is not admin. You could refer to all aspects of your job on a wage slip or you could understand that it is just a wage slip...
Halfmad Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I think I'm refered to as non-teaching which is great as I point out I'm not there to tell kids off etc when a teacher asks why I'm letting them run riot in the corridors
russdev Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I found it very offensive probably shouldn't and put people in there place when they use the term I also of the mind we should only have one word 'staff'. Russell
bossman Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 gwendes: the institution that i work for is a 21st century professional educational business (as i keep getting told by our headteacher and we are all part of the same team) and as so should be recognised as a professional and not discriminated against. What i feel strongly about is the two tier system with which the county council struggles to come to terms with as it still remains an 18th century institution led by ex teaching staff who really don't have any business sense. My apologies if this offends or upsets anyone but i feel if we as professional people do not stick up for our rights then it will remain an institution. BTW "Support Staff" would suffice as it is a true definition of what i do.
Pottsey Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 It’s very offensive some of us do classroom support and teach small groups. We also teach staff during and after school. I have a number of teachers who are booked in for regular lessons on IT related stuff. EDIT: You could play devils advocate and next time a teacher or kid asks you to show them something say sorry I am 'NON TEACHING'. I cannot teach you.
ThatBoringBloke Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I didn't realy pay much attention to mine. Just thought 'oooh this looks nice', and then 'How much *x*/>!'
Pottsey Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 “Are you a qualified teacher?†No at least not in the way you mean which is why I don’t do lessons plans or take full class’s. Surely you don’t have to be a qualified teacher to teach at some point in your job? When a new software package comes in or hardware it normally falls down to the IT techs to teach everyone how to use it. It’s not enough to say we should be classed as teaching staff but it’s enough to mean we shouldn’t be classed as none teaching. Support staff is a much better term.
Halfmad Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Actually to be a teacher you do have to be qualified. You could be considered an instructor but that's a completely different argument. You work in a school, so you are non-teaching as you're not actually teaching. It's purely a term. If it's a case of snobbery then take it up with your line manager and say you don't like being lumped in with everyone else and want to be called Support staff instead. Every IT person has to give some amount of training to staff on new equipment/software, it's part of the job and certainly doesn't make me a teacher.
GrumbleDook Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Are you a qualified teacher? As in have I a PGCE or completed GTP training? Nope ... do I have a number of other qualifications that show I have a history of instructing, coaching, mentoring and shouting at people? Yes .... erm ... what was the question again? Non-teaching is used in a derogatory manner by a minority of staff but it is often done in a manner to be increase the seperation between roles within a school. It is a power thing ... teachers want to be the lifeblood in a school ... and they are, but the school cannot run anymore without other jobs being done. Associate Staff, Admin Staff, Support Staff, Technical Staff, Teaching Staff ... these describe roles within a school ... teaching/non-teaching doesn't ... it takes one role and then lumps everyone else as another group that they can't decide what to do with.
Halfmad Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Why do you need a discription on your pay slip to say something when the title on your contract says another? My contract title is Network Manager, as it happens it's the same on my slip (just checked) but I wouldn't care less if it said non-teaching there. It means nothing. If staff are using it as a derogatory term then frankly it's time for senior management to get involved and put an end to stupid internal politics.
Pottsey Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 “Actually to be a teacher you do have to be qualified.†I know you do for the job teacher. But surly you don’t have to be qualified to do some teaching? What about unqualified TA’s? You don’t class them as none teaching. I guess it’s all down to definitions and which LEA you are in. I don’t have a problem in my school or the Notts LEA as all staff seem to be treated pretty much equal there is no us and them in the schools I have been in, thankfully. I would hate to be in a school where teachers are above the support staff. “it's part of the job and certainly doesn't make me a teacher.†Sure I agree it doesn’t make you a teacher but surly your teaching while you training those people so your not fully none teaching staff. Is there a set definition what makes you teaching staff or not thats the same for all LEA’s? Not that it really matters as it doesn’t change the job, pay or anything really it’s just a term.
TechMonkey Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Can we re-assign the staff that are ineffective as non-teaching too > I'm not that bothered just because I know that we are pretty well appreiciated here, but I think it is a major issue that Councils and Schools need to look at. As Bossman said, many of them still seem to think of support staff as Mum's and Dads or Retired people who pop in to help out every now and then. I don't think there any positions now that would allow this and they need to give the people in the roles the recognition they deserve.
woody Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 This comes down to the same old problem of them and us. It's very difficult to get away from that although not every teacher I might add is guilty of this. I originally joined this school as an 'ICT Technician' but I've officially been the 'ICT Systems Manager' now for quite a while. Yet still I am referred to as 'the technician'. The same happened at my last school as well. Some would argue that it's just habit, but where is the respect here? Not that you are 'stuck up' but that you want recognition for your acheivements and your postition within the school. If a deputy head applied for the Headteacher's job and got it, I doubt anyone in the school would continue to refer to him as 'Deputy Head'. The local councils and LEAs are also to blame. Our LEA have standardised the Job descriptions and pay of 'Technicians'. The level you come in at equates not with the role you play (ie Science, Technology ICT, Food, Reprographics etc) but the level of responsibilty you have. So a reprographics technician could be payed more than an ICT technician if they had a more senior level of responsibilty even though the ICT Technician was a more skilled and knowlegable role. All I can say is thank goodness I am in a foundation school which chooses not to follow the standardised revisions by the LEA.
Halfmad Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 True I have jumped down the throat of a maths teacher who called me a technician. I pointed out I've never been one and certainly not one now and if they wanted I'd send a technician to fix their computer, either the science technician with a bottle of acid or the CDT technician with a great big hammer. I did it in a joking manner but he knew I was serious..
derer1 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 True I have jumped down the throat of a maths teacher who called me a technician. I pointed out I've never been one and certainly not one now and if they wanted I'd send a technician to fix their computer, either the science technician with a bottle of acid or the CDT technician with a great big hammer. I did it in a joking manner but he knew I was serious.. Suprised they didnt throw a fit as a result - here we're all referred to as 'the technician' or 'the techie' - usually to our face, in the same room. (eg, teacher to child 'Go and see the techies about that' *points*) The times when I have come up against teaching staff, either reminding them to avoid bad practice or similar it's devolved into a 'how dare you talk to me like that in front of the children/talk to me like that in general' match very fast.
GrumbleDook Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Why do you need a discription on your pay slip to say something when the title on your contract says another? My contract title is Network Manager, as it happens it's the same on my slip (just checked) but I wouldn't care less if it said non-teaching there. It means nothing. If staff are using it as a derogatory term then frankly it's time for senior management to get involved and put an end to stupid internal politics. Teacher is a job title or a generic role (as it can include Heads of Departments too) ... non-teacher is not. Admin staff, support staff are also generic roles. I would not expect the certain MPs to have 'cabinet member' and 'non-cabinet member' ... or in the army to have 'soldier' and 'non-soldier' for civilian staff (and there is as big an issue with 'them and us' in the forces ... if not more!) And how can senior management deal with it as a derogatory term when the term (used in a derogatory manner or not) is still used by the LA? Remember the Spastic Society? They had such an issue they changed their nae to Scope!
Ravening_Wolf Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I have found that not only is "non-teaching" used as a hugely discriminating factor when making management decisions at my school, many staff insist on calling me by my christian name in front of students. I have drummed it in to my technicians time and time again that this is unprofessional and by and large they play by my rules. Unfortunately the superior "teaching staff" pass on their lack of respect for me to the children through simple thoughtless acts like this.
bossman Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Grumbledook: what do you think the headteacher has on his/her payslip? If it said teacher then that would probably be a falsehood as i don't think there are any headteachers who actually teach now is there? also you wouldn't call anyone from an ethnic black minority "non white" would you? (sorry if i have upset or offended anyone from an ethnic background i only wanted to define a little more widely how discriminating this term "non teaching" sounds)
Midget Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I'll be honest, I don't care about the last name thing, and will introduce my self by my full name and if they call me my first name then so be it, I don't _really_ care as I'm used to first name terms in all of my previous jobs. and i hate "sir" it makes me feel old.
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