Primary school (from standalone to server)

[DJ-Jonesy]

The Primary school that i support are looking more interested into implamenting a server. the school has about 30 standalone PC's and about 30 Laptops also about 400 pupils and staff. the school its self has nothing in at the moment apart from a Espresso box everything else goes through county. i was just wondering is what sort of spec server i would be looking for and what roles would be need installing.

 

What i can gather is that they mainly want it for safe storage and file shares as well as being able to lock down the PC's with GPO with indivdual log on's for each user. so AD Will be a must but what else?

 

They also have an EES License what would they need to add to cover the new server that would be coming?

 

Thank you

Edited June 29, 2011 by DJ-Jonesy

[featured_spectre]

Get a new server, doesnt need to be too powerful for their requirements, but one question, how are they doing their MIS?

 

Xeon Based would be best

Minimum of 8GB RAM

2TB HDD (set in RAID 10 config or RAID 5 config, you choose)

Server 2008 R2

400 CALS

 

Active Directory split as follows

 

SchoolName

|

| --- Machines

.............|- Curriculum Machines

............................|- Room1

............................|- Room2

............................|- Laptops etc

.............|- Server Room (techies)

.............|- Staff Laptops

| --- Curriculum (pupils)

.............|- intake10

.............|- intake11

.............|- intake12

| --- Staff

.............| - Academic Coaches

.............| - Admin

.............| - Extended Schools

.............| - ICT Admin

.............| - SMT

.............| - Teaching

 

GPO the Active Directory accordingly.

[DJ-Jonesy]

Get a new server, doesnt need to be too powerful for their requirements, but one question, how are they doing their MIS?

 

 

Sorry to be a bit dump what you mean by MIS?

 

thats the sort of spec that i would be looking at maybe a little bit more storage but thats all ok. what Roles would need to be installed on this only server AD would be a must DNS i would presume is there anything im missing?

 

Thanks

[featured_spectre]

MIS - Management Information System (such as SIMS).

 

Domain Controller, DNS, DHCP, Print Server, File Server, Mail Server (such as ZIMBRA).

[DJ-Jonesy]

ahh SIMS they was saying about roling this out too all teachers but at the moment they are more that happy having it installed on 1 machine that a member of the admin team inputs every morning.

 

So the usual then with the roles then would it be acceptable to run all these on 1 server or would it be better possibly ordering 2 one as AD, DNS, DHCP the other with FILE and PRINT?

 

Thanks very much this is all useful

[jamesfed]

We've got AD, DNS, DHCP, WSUS, RADIUS (for Wi-Fi), WDS and file storage on the following (at one of our new install Primarys)-

HP ML110 G6

Intel Xeon X3430 (4x2.40 Ghz)

4GB DDR3 (option to go to 8Gb)

2x1TB HDD in RAID 1

Windows Server 2008 R2

3 Year Warranty

 

One of the key things was backup as well - we use Windows Server backup onto a iSCSI box (located off the main building) with 2TB of storage running dailys.

 

Only cost about £1,000 which was wayyy better than what RM were asking for (£3,000 with only 1 year warranty and thats before CC4 setup costs as well!)

[Dom_]

Just to add - if you've got EES you're already covered for CALs.

[SHimmer45]

primary school i support has 25ish pc's plus another 10 laptops and is happily ticking over on a single CPU Dell SC poweredge, it is a few years on now, only reasons why we may be considering to change this is because the warranty has expired so this will most likely be moved to offer some redundancy.

(in 5 years i have been looking after them the Dell Server has had 2 problems 1 PSU & 1HDD )

 

back to topic , most primaries can run on rather modest server equipment as there arent going to be 90 pupils all logging in at the same time, so a low-mid range server will give all the power required and plenty of head room for later on.

you can run it all off the one server and it would be fine, but you wouldnt have any redundancy if there was a hardware failure (if budget is limited this might be the only option)

 

id also go for rack mounted kit where possible in a dedicated area as i have found you will get lumped with a "shelf" somewhere and this is ball ache

[DJ-Jonesy]

Just to add - if you've got EES you're already covered for CALs.

 

Ahh thats good to know make life easier. the school are now saying they would like a VPN access from home to the server for documents ect.. i no the LEA offer this but what would need doing on the school side.

 

would this also be too much to handle on 1 afternoon a week or would they need to look at someone full time?

 

Thanks

[Chris_]

Just to add - if you've got EES you're already covered for CALs.

 

Just check that they have an EES agreement that includes a Microsoft CAL suite. Our agreement only covers Windows and Office, no CALS.

[IKWeb]

WoW considering the school is currently running standalone, all the above spec servers I have seen posted above IMO are over spec if all they want is SIMPLE file storage, Schools, Primary

anyway, are skint. I support 3 primary schools, they all have just 1 server, which runs DHCP, DNS, and AD. and I am looking to install WDS soon to make it easy to setup the workstations faster.

 

But for all the above, a dual core machine with 2 or 4gb of memory would be more than enough to run the above (basics ) and for a file server. At the end of the day, primary kids dont really save much if any work. so 2 2tb disks would be mass overkill, would it not? yes I hear people saying its some what future proof, but again it comes down to cash.

 

I have just finished a install this week, and this Primary again is skint, but have gone for a Dual core, 2GB ram, server 2008. and 2 x 250GB disks, and 1 x 1TB disk for school data, and an external USb disk for backup, which is 2TB. this sever manages about 40 Win 7 workstations, and about 300 staff and students. (there work which was migrated form the old server which was a P4 to this new server only came to 20Gb, and thats staff and students)

 

I Guess every one is different and every schools is Different as well, but the above posts just seam way way OTT for a primary.

[Mr.Ben]

Primary School Students may not save much work, but it adds up. Take for instance PhotoStory - it creates files here that are on average 70MB. It will not take long to fill up a 250GB drive.

 

You need to take staff into account as well. Since I implemented basic Staff Shares on average 60GB of information is created a year, although last year 140GB was created. Add in work in Staff Home Folders on the Server (200GB created here over 4 years) and then you rapidly have to scale up your disk space.

 

I would say any new server put in today should have at least 500GB of space. Quad core processors are standard in any server now, as would 8GB of RAM. Any school that does not have £1500 to spend on a entry level server needs to look at there priorities.

 

You also need to think about reliability - Server components are of a far higher quality (and therefore cost more) than desktop components and are far more fault tolerant, along with NBD warranties this creates a reliable infrastructure which in the worst case will be fixed the next day.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Mr.Ben

[Dom_]

Just check that they have an EES agreement that includes a Microsoft CAL suite. Our agreement only covers Windows and Office, no CALS.

 

Are you sure? The only options I was given were pro desktop or enterprise desktop, each with the respective CAL's included.

 

I can't see an option for no CAL's here either: https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40111206#pdp

[jamin100]

WoW considering the school is currently running standalone, all the above spec servers I have seen posted above IMO are over spec if all they want is SIMPLE file storage

 

ha ha, I'm just putting in a HP GL380 G7 with 16GB RAM 12 cores and 4 TB of dirive space into my primary

[DJ-Jonesy]

Ok, so i got the spec of server sorted was just wanting to know about setting up a VPN what needs to be preinstalled on the server to allow the LEA to get it all sorted?

 

THanks

[jamesfed]

Ok, so i got the spec of server sorted was just wanting to know about setting up a VPN what needs to be preinstalled on the server to allow the LEA to get it all sorted?

 

THanks

 

Out of intrest what did you go for the server spec in the end?

 

For your VPN it depends on the type that your LEA uses - you may find yourself needing a Layer 3 network switch but either way your LEA support team is the place to go.

[DJ-Jonesy]

Out of intrest what did you go for the server spec in the end?

 

For your VPN it depends on the type that your LEA uses - you may find yourself needing a Layer 3 network switch but either way your LEA support team is the place to go.

I know its a bit over kill for a primary school but i can see the primary asking alot more from the server in the near future and there is already a 1tb NAS box there that is practically full now so i have gone for 2 of these

 

The clarkdale1u Server @ Novatech

 

One will have 3 250gb HDD's and this will be used for AD, DNS, DHCP

 

The other will have 3 1tb HDD this will be used for File storage, Print server + possibly SIMS in the very near future.

 

Thanks for the info on the VPN will get onto the LEA

 

Thank you

[featured_spectre]

If the NAS is full...buy another one, or get a SAN?

[DJ-Jonesy]

If the NAS is full...buy another one, or get a SAN?

I did think of that but they have the idea of storage now with individual log ons ect...

[SHimmer45]

ha ha, I'm just putting in a HP GL380 G7 with 16GB RAM 12 cores and 4 TB of dirive space into my primary

 

jeebus they must have money to burn

[mthomas08]

ha ha, I'm just putting in a HP GL380 G7 with 16GB RAM 12 cores and 4 TB of dirive space into my primary

Bit insane

That is better then my current Virtual Server.

 

Will add, I would ask my self a few questions before I say "Over Kill" on a server spec.

1. Will your system ever grow? You mentioned that rolling out SIMs for all teachers. We purchased a good server about 5 years ago and now that server just wouldnt be good for anything other then a GC server (Global Catalogue).

2. Redundancy? If your server goes bang is it the end of the world for no IT system for a day/week+ depending on your backup (If any).

3. Money? If you got the finances say 10K I would go ahead and get a good server and the 2nd one a better server. Have 1 dedicated as a GC (DNS, DHCP etc) and have the other one as a Secondary DNS etc but with Home Drives/programs etc etc.

4. Perfection? In a perfect world if you had all the money you wanted to make a perfect server system I would go for it. We have an external off site Engineering centre which has about 80 PCs and I must say they are starting to push what they have (a single server). So if your rich, have a box dedicated to a single task: 1 Authenticating (Dns, Dhcp etc) 2 Home Drives 3 Software.

 

Just my penny worth, very over kill on the 4 option but as previously mentioned if your system grows (Like ours have from 250 PCs to 800+ Heavy usage network) you can do things right from the start. I heard a few primary schools that have gone all out on ICT.

[dhicks]

What i can gather is that they mainly want it for safe storage and file shares as well as being able to lock down the PC's with GPO with indivdual log on's for each user. so AD Will be a must but what else?

 

For a smaller primary there's no need to go completly over the top, but you might as well get something capable now that will leave room for expansion. Dell and HP both do entry level servers - I see Dell have a special offer on at the moment offering a basic T110 Server for £199. That might suite your situation better than rack mounted equipment - I'm guessing you don't have a rack. It'd be worth getting a small UPS to power the machine in case of a power outage.

 

I'd get one of those servers, order 4 2TB disks and at least 8GB of RAM from third-party suppliers (Dell charge a fair bit for their own disks and RAM), and get a 16GB USB stick and an external USB DVD drive. Install all four harddrives in the machine, removing the internal DVD drive, then use the USB stick to boot a virtual machine system and use your 4 2TB disks as a RAID array to hold your virtual machine images and user files (maybe RAID 10 would be best if you don't buy a dedicated hardware RAID card). Buy a Windows Server Enterprise license, giving you the rights to run 4 virtual instance for Windows Server on the one machine. That should allow you to neatly separate out your server roles into separate virtual machines - domain controller, print server, probably a MIS server and a general Windows application server. You can use a Linux VM for a file server.

[jamesfed]

If you are looking at a rack server then do you accualy already have a rack? (and lets be in the clear - a rack for servers is a whole lot bigger (in depth) than a comms rack for network switches and so on).

 

Even a short one (15U) can easily cost £400-£600 which if you add that to the total cost of your servers you might as well just go and max out some normal tower servers.

 

Many secondarys these days have rack mounted servers but that is to support a whole lot more users as well as aditional kit (large network switches), CCTV and the likes.

[dhicks]

If you are looking at a rack server then do you accualy already have a rack?

 

No worries, Ikea sell them for £7:

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/48713-lackrack-ikea-server-racks-living-room-datacenters.html

[glennda]

No worries, Ikea sell them for £7:

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/48713-lackrack-ikea-server-racks-living-room-datacenters.html

 

I've actually got one of those Lack Racks going spare - you can have it for a pound or 2 quid if you want pre drilled holes!