GrumbleDook Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 As for the windows phones, yes they were frustrating, they still are, and the innovation was that they took touch interface to a new level, which apple then ripped and rebranded. Fine apple may well have made it the first touch phone to use the finger rather than stylus (I am not too sure on this one), but to say its a whole new technology, designed by them, well sorry to burst their bubble, but tablet laptops were there long before which allowed people to use the finger, all they did was condense the technology. And this is where the blurring of specific technologies and functionality causes problems for different manufacturers, ending in patent claims and counter claims. You also get into some of the issues MS has had previously. If a company buys out another company, or gains exclusive rights to a technology to such an extent that you could say they 'own' the other company, and then says "here is a wonderful thing which *we* have put in a phone, in this way, for the first time" ... are they right or wrong? The use of "we" is a marketing tool. That is why you get guest speakers on stage at Apple, MS, Google, OSS events whilst a main keynote / announcement is on ... to give this impression of "we" ... and so when some statements are made, they are technically correct, contractually correct (at that time and subject to challenges around patents, etc) and open to a lot of interpretation afterwards. It makes it confusing when the tech media report one aspect of the announcements, which then get quoted elsewhere and then the resulting articles are used as reference points further down the line. But that is nothing new ... we have had that in journalism and research for years ... it just travels faster now. Is this the fault of Apple? They certainly make the most of it, because it suits their needs to promote and sell products, but they are not the only people to do this, whether in the tech arena or elsewhere. I honestly don't think any Apple user on here or administrator of Apple kit is unaware of this, or unwilling to accept that companies poach tech from others and push it as their own.
GrumbleDook Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 So because people might not use them right, they shouldn't be used at all? That's a poor argument to say the least. Easily solved with one tool - a shoulder harness for the iPad. I have one here for one of the old Fujitsu-Siemens tablets. Not to mention, security shouldn't be an issue, so long as it is implemented correctly - PIN codes etc... And this is where I side with those poking at Apple. The lockdown options for iPads and iPhones are still not suitable for an enterprise environment without significant effort and cost. They are still not regarded as suitable (from my last conversation with CESG) for IL3 data and above unless it is is hosted and accessed remotely over a secure VPN, even within a secure wireless environment. To try and get the management of iPads / iPod Touches sorted in schools is resulting in a lot problems with some people. Docking stations are all for large class-sets right now, limited documented solutions for how people do it and the introduction of Lion / iOS5 is also going to make it more interesting. When MS bring out a system they usually have plenty of documentation and many partners who have been working on systems as early adopters. That is why we had the wonderful event in Reading just before Windows 7 came out and had several members who had been early adopters who could tell you how they managed to get Windows 7 out into their schools. this is blindly ignored on so many levels by Apple. If they are saying it can be used in a hospital (which it can) then tell everyone how it was done! When OS X was hitting the floor in its early days (10.0, 10.1 and 10.2) we had MacOSX Labs which had significant support from Apple. This was a fantastic resource (MacEnterprise, its replacement, is still there and well worth a visit) but there just doesn't seem to be the same dedication to help people work things through. @russdev and I have seen this over the years when we have interviewed Apple staff. In the last year they did BETT, the European Education Manager, when asked about community support for Macs in schools, categorically told us that he expects schools to go to Apple Solution Experts for the answers as he didn't think schools needed tech support anymore as it could be bought in when required (to shocked looks of some of his colleagues). I have spoken with many ASEs over the years (many of them lurkers on here) who get frustrated in return as they are the people coming up with a lot of the answers after they get the basics from Apple. Some could say that this is just the same as MS using a partner to produce a case study, but at least MS are pro-active in the education and enterprise market to get people to share things. Instead Apple are saying to ASEs to prepare solutions and then sell it to schools and businesses ... and Apple also expect them to give stuff and advice away for free? It is worth saying that the relationship is better in the US, but the district model of support can sometimes make it difficult for sharing. That is why it has been good to see some folk from the US be active with sharing Apple advice.
synaesthesia Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I think some of us, myself included feel obliged to help "protect the niaive" for want of a better phrase. People will often blindly buy things on the strength of an advertisment; that's great for the retailer and the manufacturer, not so good for the person that doesn't actually know what they are getting. That's where we come in. We have the power and knowledge (and google!) to help explain, help find out what they want and see if they are getting the value and function they need. 1
aerospacemango Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I think some of us, myself included feel obliged to help "protect the niaive" for want of a better phrase. People will often blindly buy things on the strength of an advertisment; that's great for the retailer and the manufacturer, not so good for the person that doesn't actually know what they are getting. That's where we come in. We have the power and knowledge (and google!)AND EDUGEEK to help explain, help find out what they want and see if they are getting the value and function they need. At least i think that's what you meant LOL!!!
localzuk Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 And this is where I side with those poking at Apple. The lockdown options for iPads and iPhones are still not suitable for an enterprise environment without significant effort and cost. They are still not regarded as suitable (from my last conversation with CESG) for IL3 data and above unless it is is hosted and accessed remotely over a secure VPN, even within a secure wireless environment. On the scale where they're available for health services, I'd fully expect them to be sold as part of a larger solution by a systems integrator/solutions provider, rather than an NHS Trust buying them and then shoehorning them into a job. So, I'd expect a company that provides a records system for a trust would develop a secure application for the iPad etc... So, they'd develop it in such a way that it did provide the security needed, rather than trying to make use of whatever primitive admin tools exist from Apple. Just like most of our software packages in schools have their own security mechanisms built in, rather than leveraging whatever Windows has on offer.
AyatollahPies Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Where's Harry Hill when you need him? FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
sted Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 On the scale where they're available for health services, I'd fully expect them to be sold as part of a larger solution by a systems integrator/solutions provider, rather than an NHS Trust buying them and then shoehorning them into a job. So, I'd expect a company that provides a records system for a trust would develop a secure application for the iPad etc... So, they'd develop it in such a way that it did provide the security needed, rather than trying to make use of whatever primitive admin tools exist from Apple. Just like most of our software packages in schools have their own security mechanisms built in, rather than leveraging whatever Windows has on offer. but can you dosent the appl;e decelopers kit say something allong the lines of you wont fiddle with the interface etc so lockdown software may be impossible without breaking the ios licence
localzuk Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 but can you dosent the appl;e decelopers kit say something allong the lines of you wont fiddle with the interface etc so lockdown software may be impossible without breaking the ios licence I don't see how. You can do it via HTML app type stuff, so its nothing to do with the iPad's software specifically.
synaesthesia Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 At least i think that's what you meant LOL!!! I rank Edugeek in amongst/as part of Google for this particular reason - every search we try in school finds Edugeek on the first page! Even this morning I mentioned to my NM that my left eye is twitching like mad for no good reason. Lo and behold, edugeek holds a (recent!) thread on such a phenomenon!
sted Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I don't see how. You can do it via HTML app type stuff, so its nothing to do with the iPad's software specifically. but if it bolts on top then surely you just need to force close the app? rather than an integrated solution that blocks any access without a password/pin
localzuk Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 but if it bolts on top then surely you just need to force close the app? rather than an integrated solution that blocks any access without a password/pin My point is not about design specifics here, the device can be and is used securely in the medical field. How they do this is irrelevant - it is the first platform designed for this sort of thing, and has gained a good market share by being good at what it does. Why are people being so pedantic over details?
MK-2 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 excuse me, can i have my can of worms back please, I need them unopened preferably
sted Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 My point is not about design specifics here, the device can be and is used securely in the medical field. How they do this is irrelevant - it is the first platform designed for this sort of thing, and has gained a good market share by being good at what it does. Why are people being so pedantic over details? because when you get down to it 1 detail can be all it takes to turn a device from great to useless heap of junk. The marketing for apple stuff is such that people want them for no quantifiable reason with no though as to whether it can be used in a given environment. Its like saying you need a 200mph veyron to go to tesco (other fast cars/supermaekets are avaliable) and when you do get it you realise a fiesta was a better bet as it has a boot so you spend more money fixing a problem that wouldnt of existed with a bit of thought/research just to get something thats being forced down your throat with blanket advertising
localzuk Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 because when you get down to it 1 detail can be all it takes to turn a device from great to useless heap of junk. The marketing for apple stuff is such that people want them for no quantifiable reason with no though as to whether it can be used in a given environment. Its like saying you need a 200mph veyron to go to tesco (other fast cars/supermaekets are avaliable) and when you do get it you realise a fiesta was a better bet as it has a boot so you spend more money fixing a problem that wouldnt of existed with a bit of thought/research just to get something thats being forced down your throat with blanket advertising The problem I see here though is the details that are being brought up are irrelevant. The iPad is a platform that is hugely flexible. It was the first useable tablet of that form factor and functionality, and it works well for many tasks. What I'm seeing here is people perceiving issues where there aren't any - due to them not thinking outside the normal lines. Suggestions of using a laptop, or issues with losing it are irrelevant! Security is something that obviously would have to be designed into any solution using iPads but to say that they are no use because of built in security controls not being ideal is not relevant either. Windows 98 had many security issues, yet it was used in lots of secure environments - cash machines used it for example! Just because 'out of the box' it isn't perfect, doesn't mean post-purchase work can't get it to do what you want.
seacider Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 " I understand that Lynx is not the answer to getting all sad, lonely nerds laid! " Quoted from Grumbledook..... ARGHHHHHH NOOOOOO! What will the nerds do now!
aerospacemango Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 " I understand that Lynx is not the answer to getting all sad, lonely nerds laid! " Quoted from Grumbledook..... ARGHHHHHH NOOOOOO! What will the nerds do now! Ummmm...try to flog off their stocks? See my earlier advert!!!
GrumbleDook Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 " I understand that Lynx is not the answer to getting all sad, lonely nerds laid! " Quoted from Grumbledook..... ARGHHHHHH NOOOOOO! What will the nerds do now! have you seen the recent Old Spice advert?
SteveT Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 have you seen the recent Old Spice advert? I'm on a horse.
synaesthesia Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 *recent* Old Spice ad? Not noticed that - I didn't even know they were still going! Is Brut still around?
aerospacemango Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 *recent* Old Spice ad? Not noticed that - I didn't even know they were still going! Is Brut still around? "Ladies, look at me, now look at your man, now look back to me" It's a classic! Almost made me go out and buy some......Would've too, if I didn't have 34 boxes of Lynx to get through.......LOL!!
MK-2 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 have you seen the recent Old Spice advert? If you aren't wearing Hai Karate I don't wanna know!
Arthur Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 to say its a whole new technology, designed by them, well sorry to burst their bubble, but tablet laptops were there long before which allowed people to use the finger, all they did was condense the technology. Johannes Gutenberg's printing press was more than the sums of its parts. Do you think he deserves credit for his invention? http://i.imgur.com/j6g2i.jpg The same can be said of everything really... http://vimeo.com/25380454
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