SYNACK Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I don't think it is true that MS are jumping on something too soon at all. Historically MS are usually late to market anything. With a few exceptions (kinect maybe?) MS is behind the competition. There is precedent for the metro principals UI in phones and linux flavours. What MS do quite well is wrap things up nicely bu they are hardly a market leader in terms of revolutionary technology. Note widely accepted tech, they push it before it is really fully baked and everyone avoids it so their actual products remain concervative in general (along with avoiding EU speeding tickets). They need to put their good ideas into practice when the behind tech is more ready - Vista capible anyone - but not wait till the market is already well owned by other player so that it is 'safer'. Their timing is just screwy. I think that the hybrid aproach with the desktop having a 'start menu' that launched a 60% size version of metro as a start menu for some configs would be fine for desktops and a switchable option. You could jump to full screen metro with a button or double tap or something and people would probably be much happier. They could then push foward further with the next release if they needed to.
Arthur Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 It looks like 21:9 is going to become the new 16:9 when it comes to Windows 8 laptops and AIOs. Urgh!!! http://i.imgur.com/D0SOr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tdpxd.jpg
localzuk Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 What's the point of that?? The 16:9 and 16:10 stuff is ok, but anything thinner and wider is simply not conducive to a PC's primary purpose - work.
SYNACK Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) It looks like 21:9 is going to become the new 16:9 when it comes to Windows 8 laptops and AIOs. Urgh!!! Oh joy, another media consumption resolution. A screen shape like that is rubbish for entering and editing a large amount of text. Anyone else notice how similar in proportion that is to modern smartphones though, given their direction they could be looking for a direct scaling trick like the iPad 3 pulled off but with vector graphics thankfully. Could make some developers lives more easy for the next multi-platform, all singing, all dancing Plants vs Zombies multi-screen extravogansa. Tough luck if you want to write a long report though, I guess thats what screen rotation is for but it is a little harder to pull that trick on a fixed form laptop. External keyboard and mouse might make it possible though, even if it would look a little odd Edited June 5, 2012 by SYNACK
gshaw Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Upgraded to Windows 8 Release Preview yesterday... still don't like it Horizontal scrolling is so irritating if not using a touchscreen, even worse on a touchpad!
sonofsanta Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 What's the point of that?? The 16:9 and 16:10 stuff is ok, but anything thinner and wider is simply not conducive to a PC's primary purpose - work. Toshiba - who've got a 21:9 laptop coming out - say it's so you can have a widescreen movie playing with a browser window next to it (presumably with that Windows 8 docking thing). That's a common problem for me, when I'm trying to enjoy a movie, that I don't have enough internets. Yeah, it's a stupid idea.
Gatt Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Just installed the RP and not really seeing much improvements yet... Though pretty much all my settings came back down from the last time which does save some time (not sure if it re-arrange the start screen to how I had it before though) Also, I thought Aero was dead or did I miss something? When it pulled down my desktop settings transparency was there and when I checked the settings Transparency is still an option? Wish the Mail app would allow you to connect to a custom email account... Calendar now links into my Google account which is better.. Battery life seems a little better - 93% with 1h 23m remaining so far... but that could change quite easily. (just as I posted this I checked again - 88% with 2h remaining - how does that work!?) Whilst I am missing the Start Menu, and personally think it is a bad move for MS to remove it completely from non touchscreen enable devices, I am getting used to the Start Screen more and more... Edited June 6, 2012 by Gatt battery life updated
sonofsanta Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Also, I thought Aero was dead or did I miss something? Aero will die but not until the RTM version - it's still in the RP for now. Source: AnandTech - Microsoft Releases Windows 8 Release Preview; NVIDIA & AMD Prep New Win8 Drivers The only known feature addition you won’t find in the current Release Preview is the new desktop UI. The Release Preview still uses Aero Glass, however MS has announced that for the release version of Windows 8 they will be switching to an unnamed, lightweight UI that does away with the glassy features of Aero in favor of something closer to a very flat version of Microsoft Office 2010.
CyberNerd Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 lmao; My technician just told me he had to google how to shut windows down. Our users are going to love this. I may just skip win7 and give them a choice between gnome and win8.
alttab Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Whilst I am missing the Start Menu, and personally think it is a bad move for MS to remove it completely from non touchscreen enable devices, I am getting used to the Start Screen more and more... i think that's the whole idea behind the thinking. That, to introduce a new method of navigation that works better across more types of devices, you have to start at some point....and people will adapt even if the approach might seem a bit jarring. Maybe, something like this will help folk to manage the transition. The Metro hater's guide to customizing Windows 8 Consumer Preview | ZDNet a few minutes modifying something which is clearly designed in the preview to showcase metro-style apps, so that you can be productive with traditional apps. The key thing for me is the search function. Even under Windows 7, i often find it easier to search for apps that i want to open rather than browse the start menu. To me the start menu has under win7 become not as important as the task bar or the desktop anyway, and obviously i don't want to clutter up either so spending a few minutes managing the new start screen is well worth the time spent especially if it means clearing away the metro stuff that i don't have an interest in. yet. In summary, my view on Win8 is that there's not a lot to dislike. Faster boot up times, introduction of Hyper-v on a windows client OS for the first time, the ribbon in Windows Explorer (MS aren't getting anywhere near enough credit for that), no additional system requirements, removal of the unnecessary Aero bloat candy. my only gripe is that they have to maintain the two ways of setting settings. If what your looking for is in Metro then great, you never need to revisit the traditional control panel, but if what your looking for isn't in the metro UI then you do have to revert, and it's that bittyness as far as the power users' experience that could be a bit frustrating.
gshaw Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) In summary, my view on Win8 is that there's not a lot to dislike. Faster boot up times, introduction of Hyper-v on a windows client OS for the first time, the ribbon in Windows Explorer (MS aren't getting anywhere near enough credit for that), no additional system requirements, removal of the unnecessary Aero bloat candy. I like the Aero look and it's not exactly causing a problem to my gaming spec PC, nor did it to an x100e basic business netbook so it's hardly that much bloat, losing it takes away much of the slickness of Windows 7 No sign of quick tile theming or background images for the Start screen, both of which would make it much less garish and insulting to the eyes, hardly a difficult set of features to ask for is it? Are we meant to be grateful that MS allows us to specify which 2-bit pattern we can have instead??? Still missing jump lists and not seeing an efficient replacement on the Start screen, also found the Live Tiles very distracting and turned them all off after about 2 minutes of installing. I'm still yet to find one feature in the new UI that's more efficient on a desktop \ laptop than what I have now... Edited June 6, 2012 by gshaw
Gatt Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 It's just taken me an age to, yet again, go through the Metro Start Screen (MeSS for short!) to pin, unpin, re-arrange my tiles to so that they all fit on the screen as best as possible.. This is a nightmare on a laptop with a touchpad as your tiles go everywhere - it reminds me of one of those sliding block puzzles where you had to make up a picture by moving them in a sequence until you got it right.. Annoyingly, whilst it'll sync the settings of a tile (eg the people tile - it synced my connections to Windows Live, Facebook, LinkedIn and Google) it doesn't sync the layout at all - meaning you have to spend about an hour going through it... Whilst the live tiles can be useful, they get a bit distracting when they keep sliding between the content and the name of the tile...
Gatt Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) When I installed Chrome and told it to be the default browser, Win8 popped up with a prompt asking what extensions to associate with Chrome?? Oddly, it also removed the Metro IE10 - completely.. Instead of the white "E" on pale blue tile - I know have one similar to Chrome with the IE9 style icon that opens the Desktop IE10... Edit: It would appear I'm not the only one to experience this: http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1061238-ie10-metro-gone/ Edited June 6, 2012 by Gatt linky added
alttab Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I like the Aero look and it's not exactly causing a problem to my gaming spec PC, nor did it to an x100e basic business netbook so it's hardly that much bloat, losing it takes away much of the slickness of Windows 7 i can't say a non-aero win7 UI ever added anything in the way of slickness. By which i assume you mean responsiveness, if not then how slick a UI element is is really a subjective view of one's preference for eye candy.
SYNACK Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) i can't say a non-aero win7 UI ever added anything in the way of slickness. By which i assume you mean responsiveness, if not then how slick a UI element is is really a subjective view of one's preference for eye candy. Given the right GPU, even modest modern stuff and Aero was much more responcive as it was GPU bound rather than CPU bound as GDI/GDI+ (used back in WindowsPerfect 5.1 also known as XP )was. You could throw windows about with no lag and a hung up apps window did not take the whole screen out with is as each element was seporatly composited. This had better RDP performance too thanks to potimisations that they could make such as video layering. Vista/7 WDM was way better than the older alternative from development and usage standpoint, it just happened to coinside with the transparency so everyone picked on the eye candy without taking into account the massive changes under the hood which were real progress. Metro looks to be heavily GPU accelerated too if its anything like Windows Phone (which it is) and given the simplicity of the shapes it should be really quick on even the slowest GPU that supports the instructions and without so much transparency and complexity should be able to be run on very little power assuming newer power stepping GPUs. I imagine that is behind some of the UI tone down as well. Edited June 6, 2012 by SYNACK
Gatt Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 My Metro Start Screen (which aptly abbreviates to - MeSS!!)
Dave84 Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 Interesting. I have been busy scanning group policies on server 2012 RC to see what's new and found that the new Windows 8 ones also support Windows RT....
glennda Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 Interesting. I have been busy scanning group policies on server 2012 RC to see what's new and found that the new Windows 8 ones also support Windows RT.... I would assume so - most GPO are just registry tweaks and as the OS will be built in the same fashion with a registry then yes GPO's would work.
Tallwood_6 Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 I would assume so - most GPO are just registry tweaks and as the OS will be built in the same fashion with a registry then yes GPO's would work. Not sure how they would be applied seeing as RT isn't supposed to have any domain / management tool support.
Arthur Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 Oddly, it also removed the Metro IE10 - completely... Not odd at all. That's how it is meant to work... IE10 is available in both Metro style and desktop experiences when it is the default browser. If Internet Explorer is not your default browser, only desktop IE is available and you cannot change IE’s Browser Launch Settings. The “Choose how you open links” option on the Programs tab of the Internet Properties dialog will be disabled (“grayed out”) when IE is not the default browser: http://i.imgur.com/i3LPR.png To change the default browser, type “default” on the Windows 8 Start screen. The Start screen will search apps, settings, and files for this term. The Apps results will include Default Programs. Touch or click it to bring up the Default Programs control panel item. From its list of options, select “Set your default programs” to display a page containing a list of programs on the left. (Source) Because the Metro version of Google Chrome hasn't been released yet, Windows 8 is unable to set it as the default browser when you set the desktop version of Chrome as your default browser. Most people would want to use the same browser in both Metro and desktop environments so it does make sense to remove IE10 from the Start Screen when make a third-party browser the default. If Metro IE remained on the Start Screen after making Chrome, Firefox etc. the default browser on the desktop side I am sure companies like Opera would complain to the EU again. It would also be confusing for users.
glennda Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 Not sure how they would be applied seeing as RT isn't supposed to have any domain / management tool support. ah i didn't know that - TBH if M$ don't do any type of management they are just shooting themselves in the foot. they are years behind in the tablet market in terms of os and the only real thing needed now is a decent way to manage devices. Its slowly starting to trickle through but putting a good footing out there is the way to go IMHO. Perhaps there is a way to point it to a management server which would be a DC?
Arthur Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 Not sure how they would be applied seeing as RT isn't supposed to have any domain / management tool support. You are correct that Windows RT tablets can't join an AD domain, but they can definitely be managed (although not in the same way we are used to with current and previous versions of Windows). For WOA, we have integrated a new management client that can communicate with a management infrastructure in the cloud to deliver LOB apps to users. You’ll hear more about this management infrastructure at a later date from our friends on the System Center blog, so this post will focus on the benefits and capabilities of the WOA management client itself. There are actually two parts to the WOA management client: the built-in system component, which we’ll call the agent; and a Metro-style app, which we’ll call the self-service portal, or SSP, that the consumer uses to browse for and install LOB apps made available to them. Both parts of the WOA management client are well behaved Windows 8 apps in terms of user experience, power management/battery life, network awareness (for metered networks), and overall functionality. The agent does most of the heavy lifting on the client. It configures the client to communicate with the organization’s management infrastructure; periodically synchronizes with the management infrastructure to check for any updated LOB apps and apply the latest settings policies configured by IT for the device; and handles the actual download and installation of any LOB apps that the user wants to install. Finally, if the user or the administrator chooses to remove the device from the management infrastructure, it clears the configuration of the agent itself and disables any LOB apps the user installed from the SSP. (Source) In a post published today on the Windows 8 engineering team's blog, Management Systems Program Manager Lead Jeffrey Sullivan described the new capability for Windows RT, which uses a connection to System Center 2012's cloud-based management infrastructure to deliver the applications to the client devices. The agent as Sullivan wrote "does most of the heavy lifting" for client administration, allowing administrators to set which users within the organization are allowed to load applications onto Windows RT devices based on their Active Directory credentials. A new desktop Control Panel applet allows users to connect to the management infrastructure and download the client, authenticating them using their corporate e-mail address and password over a secure connection to the management service. Once connected, the agent configures the device's connection to the corporate network, periodically polls the cloud for updated applications and device setting policies pushed out by administrators, and downloads and installs line-of-business applications that users choose to install. It also gives administrators remote self-destruct on applications: "If the user or the administrator chooses to remove the device from the management infrastructure, it clears the configuration of the agent itself and disables any LOB apps the user installed from the [self-service portal]," Sullivan wrote. (Source)
CyberNerd Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 ^^ I can see the death/strategic withdrawal of Active Directory here. With so much BYOD and cloud nowadays MS now need to move to management tools that are outside of a windows domain. Their lack of imagination wrt mobile and tablet devices prompted this as Apple and Google started to take over their traditional market space.
localzuk Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 ^^ I can see the death/strategic withdrawal of Active Directory here. With so much BYOD and cloud nowadays MS now need to move to management tools that are outside of a windows domain. Their lack of imagination wrt mobile and tablet devices prompted this as Apple and Google started to take over their traditional market space. Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny' when it comes to number of devices in use (talking about pcs, tablets etc...). Businesses simply do not want to outsource every aspect of their network into 'the cloud' - it makes no sense to do so for many things. Saying that Apple and Google have started to take over MS's market space is kinda overselling it a bit.
Arthur Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 TBH if MS don't do any type of management they are just shooting themselves in the foot. Windows RT (ARM) tablets are designed for consumers and to compete with the iPad, whereas Windows 8 (x86) slates are more for businesses and 'power users'. The latter can be integrated with AD, have multiple user accounts and managed with GPOs, SCCM etc. because they are just regular PCs. Imagine buying an expensive Android tablet out of your own money, taking it into work and then having it completely locked down and monitored by the IT department (both at work and at home). I don't think many people would be happy with this, so you can see why Microsoft have designed Windows RT in the way they have done. Perhaps there is a way to point it to a management server which would be a DC? See post #272. With so much BYOD and cloud nowadays MS now need to move to management tools that are outside of a Windows domain. Windows Intune?
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