localzuk Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 That can't be right, the population of US is approx 300Million, + uk 60Million + autralia, canada etc Ah, but the first language for almost half Americans is now Spanish. Have you got any sources for that? I find that quite interesting!
Grommit Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 That can't be right, the population of US is approx 300Million, + uk 60Million + autralia, canada etc Ah, but the first language for almost half Americans is now Spanish. Have you got any sources for that? I find that quite interesting! Ke ?
Jake Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Jake, without sounding melodramatic, would you still feel that way if you had held a loaded rifle aimed at someone and had to make the decision to shoot, or had to order others to shoot? What happens if this is on mainland UK and you are not sure whether it is someone from the local area and just want to pop onto the base to poach ... whether it is a trainee who has been out on the lash and is sneaking back in ... or whether it is someone attempting to plant a device near a secure data centre to try and do as much damage to the running of the army as possible? PTSD is a serious issue and the moral make-up of most people stop them from doing silly things ... but to actually know that you have killed someone is different to thinking "it's them or us!" and unless you have had to make that choice I don't think you can truly know how hard it is. Well to be honest, thats a pretty pointless question to ask me. I have no idea if I could pull the trigger, until its a situation I am actually in. I would like to think I could pull the trigger, but that doesnt mean I would when actually stood in that position. I could say yes, I could say no, but both answers would be meaningless because its impossible to predict how I would actually act in that moment. The guy I work with spent years in the army as well, but he never had to actually pull a trigger and shoot someone dead, I expect I could ask him the same question, and even though he has been in the army he most likely couldnt answer with 100% assuredness. All I can say is that I would *hope* I could, I have an ability which some friends of mine detest in me, and some , in certain situations, are envious of in me. I am able to totally switch off any emotions at all, literally I turn completely cold. Of course, I have never been on a battlefield, so I have no idea if it would work in that situation, but certainly in the event of the death of a family member I am able to feel no grief whatsoever by simply sticking it in "cold storage". Its difficult to describe without spending a few years getting to know me, mostly I am insanely jovial and clownlike, but my closest friends who have known me for decades insist that the look in my eyes gives them shivers at times. One friend of mine who I've known since we were 7 describes looking into my eyes at times as looking at "evil". Mind you, thats usually after we have been down the pub Could I pull a trigger? I dont know...Al Capone once said every man was a virgin until he had taken another mans life. /shrug It should be said that I am in no way a pacifist, I believe in capital punishment and am a firm believer in an eye for an eye. My clowning is my balance, if it werent for that, I would probably be a serial killer by now. Anyway, difficult question to answer, I guess the most honest answer to the question of whether I would still feel that way if I was stood there holding the gun, is... I dont know, I have no way of knowing that until it happens.
Geoff Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Ah, but the first language for almost half Americans is now Spanish. Have you got any sources for that? I find that quite interesting! CIA factbook can help you out here. https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#People
localzuk Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Erm... The CIA fact book says 'English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%'...
russdev Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 http://www.edugeek.net/themes/fisubsilversh/images/edugeek5.png \"EduGeek.net\" It should be said that I am in no way a pacifist, I believe in capital punishment and am a firm believer in an eye for an eye. My clowning is my balance, if it werent for that, I would probably be a serial killer by now. Eye for eye until we have no eyes left then what do we move on to... As for English... Also remember half of Canada dons't speak english as first language, so you are talking usa, uk, Australia.. Also have to take out half of wales as funny people in south wales, then got Cornwell as well Well half world does speak it dosn;t make it the international language anyway we all know that is Esperanto... Russ
Jake Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Eye for eye until we have no eyes left then what do we move on to... I'd settle for that, humanity long ceased being worthy of having this planet anyway
beeswax Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 That can't be right, the population of US is approx 300Million, + uk 60Million + autralia, canada etc Ah, but the first language for almost half Americans is now Spanish. Have you got any sources for that? I find that quite interesting! Ke ? Well the CIA factbook proved me wrong. I was quoting a commentator during the last presidential election who was discussing the demographics of the USA in a tv debate, and that's obviously what I thought I heard. There are some things I heard, there are some things I think I heard. Then there are some unheard things I know and some ...well, you know how the rest of it goes. My apologies for a misleading quote. As there are some some US memebers of Edugeek out there perhaps they can give us some more up to date figures?
Grommit Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 This thread is about being proud to be BRITISH... and I am PROUD of my Country and all it has done
localzuk Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 I wouldn't say I was proud to be British or that I was proud of 'british accomplishments' as I also find the concept of countries and national pride to be bizarre. However, I am proud when I see people helping those in need, whichever country they are from or in. I am always angry at those that only work for themselves and give nothing to society at large (I especially hate businesses and millionaires who use every dodge they can in order to reduce their taxes). To put it bluntly - even though this was a parody - if 'Britain' was to pay reparations, this would be coming from the money I pay through taxes. I oppose slavery in every way shape and form (ie. I'm an animal rights proponent also), so why should the money I pay to improve the lives of those people that live on this island be taken away for something that people did many years ago? Things that I disagree with? That is punishing the innocent.
Grommit Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 I wouldn't say I was proud to be British or that I was proud of 'british accomplishments' as I also find the concept of countries and national pride to be bizarre. . Ahh get a grip man... if you ain't got pride in YOUR country ... well that's sad.... Citizens being patriotic and PROUD of their country makes their countries stronger and a happier place to live... Just look at the Aussies, Americans, German and French... they are Patriotic Zealots and look ant their countries... PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE THERE... Look at us in theUK with the sad cases that drag us down with their negativity and selfishness... You statemet above is really selfish as it shows that you only really care about yourself and maybe your friends and family.... you do belong to a Nation as well...
Jake Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 I must admit, there is alot of things wrong with the US people, but one thing I certainly do admire them on, and cant fault them on, is their level of patriotism. Rightly or wrongly (depending on your viewpoint), they certainly are proud of their country and proud to be american (for the most part)
localzuk Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 Ahh get a grip man... if you ain't got pride in YOUR country ... well that's sad.... Citizens being patriotic and PROUD of their country makes their countries stronger and a happier place to live... Just look at the Aussies, Americans, German and French... they are Patriotic Zealots and look ant their countries... PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE THERE... Absolute rot. I wouldn't want to live in any of those countries. The people are too obsessed with making their 'country' a certain way. The USA are the worst of the bunch. I am proud of my town - I always jump in and try and give back to the area I live in but I can't say I'm proud to be british because I'm not. Such a generalisation is just a precursor for problems such as wars and racism (look at the BNP, an extreme example of nationalist pride organisation). Look at us in theUK with the sad cases that drag us down with their negativity and selfishness... You statemet above is really selfish as it shows that you only really care about yourself and maybe your friends and family.... you do belong to a Nation as well... That is just yet another generalisation - you know so little about me, you shouldn't have been able to make such a statement. As I said, I don't like the concept of 'Nations'. It leads to inequality and fighting. Why should this lump of land be proud when other such nations are suffering such big problems? War, famine, poverty, disease etc... National pride is one of thep problems as I see. Realising that we are members of the human race and that we have a responsibility to help those who are worse off than us is far more important than being proud of being 'British'. What is there to be positive about? That over half of the world suffers whilst the few countries such as ours have problems such as obesity! How decadent can you get? A lot of the unhappiness in this country is based on mismanagement by the government, the constant desire to buy more stuff (no matter how much people have, they are still unhappy because they want more), and the weather (yes, our climate is a big factor in unhappiness). Blaming it on lack of national pride is nonsense as far as I can see.
localzuk Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 I must admit, there is alot of things wrong with the US people, but one thing I certainly do admire them on, and cant fault them on, is their level of patriotism. I could. Patriotism in that country has got to the level where if you say anything negative about the government, what they are doing or the state of the country you are denounced as being unpatriotic. How can a country ever improve if they think in that way? (I have anecdotal evidence of this from relatives who live over there).
Jake Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 To be fair localzuk, I think the US is a bit too big of a country to base a judgement of the entire country on what some relatives in one place in the country say, for instance, I also have relatives there, and I have even spent some years there myself, and I would wager that for every bit of anecdotal evidence you have I have first hand evidence to the contrary. The US is such a big and varied place that there are examples of all sorts of patriotic and non patriotic extremities in it. On the whole, I still admire their level of patriotism. Compared to here in the UK , I think its a whole different level. Here, I dont know of a single person in real life who actually says they are proud to be English, nearly all in fact say quite the opposite
localzuk Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 Indeed, you probably can counter it. However, the point remains. You just have to look at the fact that there is a law called 'The Patriot Act'... Gives an indication as to how the people in the country think. However, I will retract the sweeping generalisation, as there are undoubtedly people who aren't like I say. However, there are still many that are.
GrumbleDook Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 I am proud of both my English and Irish heritage, and I am aware of the successes and failures of both. I am a patriot ... I believe in national service (it doesn't just have to be the forces ... there are lots of opportunities out there) and I believe that one thing that is destroying bother EIRE and UK is the relience and control from EU. I would rather be Irish/British than anything else (I honestly cannot seperate which takes precedence ... for Rugby it is England, for Football it is Ireland, but I strongly support Scotland, Wales and NI in all their sporting endeavours too) I believe things like Last Night of the Proms are treasures we shold enjoy and rejoice in (and they are not Jingoistic!), that ceremonial duties of the armed forces are as important as active duty (and the UK do it better than *any* other country!), that the ability to see the lighter side of yourself is key to self-criticism (and no-one smiles at themselves better than the Irish), and the ability to forge links with other countries is important but not at the loss of individual choice of the members citizens / subjects. I believe that children are the future ... erm ... sorry ... wrong thread ... I have no problem looking at the faults of the Irish or the British in years gone by ... but to say that we are culpable for those mistakes made by people before I could even vote is ridiculous. I am not culpable for the slave trade ... I am not the person responsible for blowing up the Nelson Pillar ... but I would like to see that people learn from the pain or stupidy of past actions. Reparations for actions of governments or groups within my own lifetime is one thing ... that is called accountability and even then I find the blame culture is not beneficial to any country around this ... I would rather we accept that certain things were wrong and get on with making sure it doesn't happen again. Saying that ... can someone please get rid of George W and Tony "I aint bovvered" B?
Jake Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 You just have to look at the fact that there is a law called 'The Patriot Act'... Gives an indication as to how the people in the country think. Again, to be fair, that doesnt indicate how the people think, it indicates how the government think. I would hate someone to say that any of Blairs policies reflect on how I personally think
localzuk Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 Again, to be fair, that doesnt indicate how the people think, it indicates how the government think. I would hate someone to say that any of Blairs policies reflect on how I personally think Ah, but it is a government that is voted in by the people... The people in congress are voted in, the president is voted in. So a majority of the people supported putting those people in power, so a majority of the country support that view by proxy. If they don't support the policies then they shouldn't vote those people in. Everyone knows what the Republicans stand for, everyone knows what GW Bush supports... But anyway, this is kinda beyond the point, the point is that reparations due to the history of a country is wrong. Being proud of a country, in my view, is also pointless when there are so many people who suffer whilst we sit here with our fancy computers and cars... I'll be quiet again now.
Jake Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 But that doesnt help if policies are made in between elections, you cant backward vote someone out of office if they later decide to do something you disagree with. Just look at the stuff Labour has brought in that I disagree with. Well..short of revolution that is. Not to mention that since when is an elected government elected by the majority? Frankly its been decades since I last recall any government (US or UK), being elected by the majority of its actual populace. So no..a majority of people did not put those people in power, and thus a majority of people do not support a decision by proxy
witch Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Just a small point, localzuk I think you are thinking that in order to be proud of being British (or English) you have to think less of others. THIS ISNT THE CASE. I am very proud of being British, but I respect others from other places and cultures and I do not put myself above them in any shape or form.
localzuk Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 I didn't say that nor did I imply it. I stated that national pride leads to problems - as shown around the world with laws such as the Patriot Act, the Nazi's etc... Pride is one thing but becoming a zealot and obsessing over it (as many people seem to do, as it seems to be human nature) is completely different. I say do away with pride and just get on with improving things. Why do we need to stand around slapping each other on the back for the things we have achieved? Yes there are some great achievements but there are far more failures. We should be driven by wanting to improve society, not constantly looking at our minor achievements throughout history and saying things like 'I'm proud to be British'. We should be looking to a Star Trek like future
Jake Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 We should be looking to a Star Trek like future As long as I am not being the redshirt security guy!
witch Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 We should be looking to a Star Trek like future Then you will just get people saying that they are proud to be human!! So, you are not against pride as such, just its abuse? I hope not as I would hate to think that I cannot be proud of for example my children's achievements. Boasting about them, or feeling that they are better than anyone else -now that is a different thing all together
Greg_Jones Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 [RANT/] Hmmm interesting, I read through the reparations they want the British to pay, but most of the damage was caused by the British Empire which no longer exists. So how the hell is Britain accountable. I mean they are blaming us for holes in the Ozone because of the industrial revolution (without which they wouldn't have computers or internet to moan about this on...) I'm not the most patriotic person, but I know what me and my country should be held accountable for, and it's not people opening factories over 100 years ago, maybe blame the inventor of cars they do a hell of allot of pollution. Inventing machine guns, because if you want to point the blame for inventing weapons look to the states, atomic bomb anyone? (Yes ok we sent 2 scientists to help, one of whom a Russian spy but none the less.) So yes 100 years ago we had an empire we spread our culture and language, and of course we made a few mistakes and naturally some greedy people extorted money from others. But are you saying you wouldn't if you could. [/RANT]
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