Bring Your Own Computer (BYOC)

[Grimley]

Hi All,

 

We are thinking about saving money on buying new PC's this year and implementing a BOYC policy, I was just wondering if anyone has done something similar and if so what issue did they have and or advice would you give?

 

These PC's would have a Citrix Client installed on them so they would be able to access applications and virtual desktops from there own machine using them as a terminal.

 

Any related advice would be most appreciated.

[elsiegee40]

They have done this at my daughter's school. I can't comment on the technical side, but the implementation has not been popular with parents or staff.

 

Bring your own computer sounds great, but the kids can't charge them during the day so few last to period 5. Then there are the problems of theft, losing them on the bus and dropping them.

 

Teachers hate them because home laptops have webcams and games that are a huge distraction and the cameras are also a safeguarding risk. Kids also use their own wifi dongles to bypass the school web filtering.

 

It's not as simple as your SLT would like to think...

Edited March 30, 2011 by elsiegee40

[srochford]

We're in the very early stages of looking at this but we're a university where almost every student already does bring their own computer - providing a farm of VDI machines for them to connect to would mean we could probably give students access to all the licensed software without them installing it (with all the licensing nightmares that brings)

 

The benefits are that we save on all the costs of the desktop PCs; we've already got power and data sockets where students could plug in their laptops.

 

I could imagine doing something similar for staff - again, there's a cost saving on hardware (and if you go the way some corporates do and expect people to look after their own machine then you save even more money!)

 

In a school, however, this could be a nightmare for all the reasons @elsieegee40 raises.

[taff]

If you're going to be running a Citrix client, why not just keep the computers you have? Or buy a job lot of older computers that have the bare minimum spec required.

[AngryTechnician]

Do you have figures on how many of your students have computers suitable for this, and do you plan to set aside funding to provide for those pupils that do not?

[elsiegee40]

Apply everything in this thread http://www.edugeek.net/forums/behind-red-door/73262-translation-what-they-say-what-they-mean.html to you as NM with students having their own computers and work out how much valium you'll need!

 

Other thoughts as I came to school were in line with AT... what will you do for those students won't/can't afford to buy a laptop for school use?

 

Own laptops are not mandatory at my daughter's school though, from the emails we get, the school's SLT would clearly like them to be so. My daughter doesn't take her laptop to school and uses the school's computers. This is her decision, not mine. She's in Year 12 and able to make her own mind up.

[localzuk]

What happens when their computer is broken during school time? Whose responsibility would that be?

 

What about child protection issues - when the child is walking home carrying their $1000 laptop, they're basically a walking mugging victim.

 

What about when children start playing games during lessons? As they're not your computers, you can't stop them installing anything.

 

Or how about pornography? They would easily be able to pass it around school on their laptops etc...

 

So many issues with this as a concept.

[teejay]

I'm wondering how much money this would actually save. You would need to invest in a pretty hefty server farm, licencing for Citrix etc, increased security on the network, loan equipment for when a student has forgotten or broken their laptop, secure storage for the pupils laptops at lunchtime or when they're not using them. Also, I can see needing a bigger IT support team to sort out all the random laptop problems.

[pete]

As someone who worked on a uni laptop help clinic for six months before coming to my senses and bailing (was studying there, the money was good, don't judge me ).......

 

1) Enforce a minimum spec (even for Citrix endpoints, you'll need to spec battery life, screen size, decent keyboard, weight (they're kids)).

2) Discover parents can't understand it

3) Realise you'll have to give examples

4) Realise parents will take those examples as the One True Laptops

5) Watch as they blame you for all problems with the One True Laptops

6) ?????

7) Profit?

[SpuffMonkey]

I'm wondering how much money this would actually save. You would need to invest in a pretty hefty server farm, licencing for Citrix etc, increased security on the network, loan equipment for when a student has forgotten or broken their laptop, secure storage for the pupils laptops at lunchtime or when they're not using them. Also, I can see needing a bigger IT support team to sort out all the random laptop problems.

 

I would think that to make it cost effective - you would have to wash your hands of all problems relating to the actual laptops - or it would be unmanageable.

[teejay]

I would think that to make it cost effective - you would have to wash your hands of all problems relating to the actual laptops - or it would be unmanageable.

 

Agreed, just can't see that happening though. You can just see it, 'Johnny can't access the school network and he needs to finish his coursework that's 6 months late and YOUR network isn't working, get it fixed!'

[Pete10141748]

Sounds like a nightmare to me.

 

Hundreds of different makes and models + who's supporting it,

warranty restricts what you can do to fix it (if anything),

what about chargers & they'll have to be PAT tested,

lost/broken/stolen laptops - covered under warranty or insurance?,

school responsible for replacement?,

who's accountable for the safety of equipment,

what happens when X pupil starts showing off their "Games for Windows" collection and playing Bioshock at lunchtime (or in class!),

no restrictions on installations,

bypassing of filtering with 3G dongles,

who is installing anti-virus and checking it is up to date,

what if the laptop has a "home" version of an OS and can't connect to your network properly,

teacher teaching something in PowerPoint and pupil laptop only has Lotus Notes or 'MS Works' on it,

what if a laptop 'bricks', who's re-installing the OS, will work be lost, backing up of work etc

 

There's more but that'll make my point I think. If SLT here said they wanted to do this, I'd be brow-beating them until they agreed to either not do it, or let me write a policy that was so airtight I would never need to touch any of the computers that are not owned by the school, no matter what the implication, even if Little Johnny has lost his coursework I'd make damn sure it was nothing to do with me to sort it out.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Pete10141748

[ZeroHour]

I am so glad so many here have sensibly seen the issues with BYOT, I have thought along the lines of most of you but have heard from those that are advocates of this approach who wont listen to reason.

You have restored my faith in common sense

[elsiegee40]

I'm sorely tempted to email the link to this thread to the SLT and Chair of Governors at daughter's school! But I guess the sight of their own NM gibbering in a corner has already indicate that wasn't such a great idea.

[TechMonkey]

I could see it working as an added benefit but not as an alternative to your own computers.

 

Some of the fixes to the issues off the top of my head:

Hundreds of different makes and models + who's supporting it, - Set a minimum level of help you can provide. If it doesn't boot you can advise but won't touch, if it can't connect to the network you'll troubleshoot and fix up to a hardware issue, school software not working you'll fix.

Hardware issues/bricking/replacements - Not your problem their tech

what happens when X pupil starts showing off their "Games for Windows" collection and playing Bioshock at lunchtime (or in class!), - It's lunch, why worry. During a lesson it is a classroom management issue same as if they brought in a magazine and was reading it under the desk.

teacher teaching something in PowerPoint and pupil laptop only has Lotus Notes or 'MS Works' on it, - VDI solution shoudl solve that as they will use the apps provided by the school.

bypassing of filtering with 3G dongles, - slightly trickier but still classroom management. Same as if a child was using their phone to browse the internet.

no restrictions on installations, - this would be the biggest issue I can see and the solution is you'd have to have your s**t together. Network would need to be as bulletproof as you can make it, wireless solution well configured and everything well secured.

Porn - sames as the old mag found in a hedge (who was putting them there!!). Your net connection supplied will be filtered anything being passed around should be dealt with as if it were hard copy.

(Not picking on you pete, your list was the most concise)

 

Just to make clear, as a complete alternative to having your own computers I think it is too fraught with issues. As a complementary solution I think it has benefits.

[Ric_]

We do it for our sixth form... it is not mandatory and is at no cost to the pupils. Unless I am feeling incredibly generous I won't even allow their laptops in my office! For the students, it works as follows:

 

1. Turn on laptop

2. Connect to wifi network

3. Automatic redirect to authentication portal on BlueSocket wifi network

4. Assuming valid sixth form logon credentials are enterred, the user is directed to Citrix Secure Gateway (BlueSecure controller limits access to only the DNS servers and port 443 on the Secure Desktop VM)

5. Authenticate on Secure Gateway

6. Launch Citrix XenApp desktop

 

Tbh, it's one more authentication step than I would like but it works. We run XenApp anyway so it's just a little extra capacity required and we license our sixth form students for Office too to allow them access under this scheme and so that they can use Secure Gateway from home. It works well as a PR exercise when recruiting to

 

One thing to note... I don't agree that you should use a similar scheme to replace your desktops.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention too... when it comes to playing games, sharing porn, etc. That is a school policy issue - you don't ban magazines in school in case someone brings in a pornographic one after all!

Edited March 30, 2011 by Ric_

[maniac]

The best implementation of this type of scheme in my opinion is rather than a 'bring your own laptop' the school partners with a company and offers laptops or other mobile devices to parents/students on a buy in scheme, that way you get to control the types of machines in use and students get their own laptop to use in school and at home. There's lots of companies who will administer these types of schemes for you. Yes there are lots of issues to over come, but if the school wants to achieve a 1 to 1 pupil to device ratio, it's virtually impossible for the school to supply them and foot the bill. Of course you still have to maintain a stock of machines for some students to use in school, and provide a decent back end to the network for the devices to use whether than be citrix type systems, cloud based systems or something else.

 

There are organisations like the e-learning foundation who will help schools setup a 'buy in' scheme and help you chose the right approach for your school, offer advice on the best ways to implement the scheme etc. e-Learning Foundation - About Us well worth investigating if this might be a better approach rather than a free for all bring in what you like approach.

 

Mike.

Edited March 30, 2011 by maniac

[elsiegee40]

OP appears to be from Australia, so UK schemes may not be applicable.

[maniac]

OP appears to be from Australia, so UK schemes may not be applicable.

 

Whoops, failed to notice that.

[Grimley]

Thank you for so many suggestions, as to answer a few questions that have been raised.

 

Our current IT staff consists of

*1 Database Administrator (specialises in Oracle)

*3 Information Technology Support Officers (1 specialises in Citrix)

*1 Network Administrator (Linux Expert)

*1 Team Leader/systems & help desk administrator

 

The laptops would be using a Citrix client to access a virtual desktop & hosted applications if they need to do work on the internal network, other then this there machine is completely separate from the rest of the network. the only things that are allowed through our firewall is Internet and Citrix so as for installing 3rd party software we are not worried, all network usage is monitored and programs can be monitored using Citrix.

 

If you have any more queries please let me know, and I will try to answer them the best I can.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Grimley

[localzuk]

Thank you for so many suggestions, as to answer a few questions that have been raised.

 

Our current IT staff consists of

*1 Database Administrator (specialises in Oracle)

*3 Information Technology Support Officers (1 specialises in Citrix)

*1 Network Administrator (Linux Expert)

*1 Team Leader/systems & help desk administrator

 

The laptops would be using a Citrix client to access a virtual desktop & hosted applications if they need to do work on the internal network, other then this there machine is completely separate from the rest of the network. the only things that are allowed through our firewall is Internet and Citrix so as for installing 3rd party software we are not worried, all network usage is monitored and programs can be monitored using Citrix.

 

If you have any more queries please let me know, and I will try to answer them the best I can.

 

Your internet connection has no bearing on 3rd party software. The issue you'd have is people having other stuff on their laptops which gets used rather doing their work. Eg. Games. You can only monitor what is going on the citrix session, and not what is on the rest of their laptop.

 

Or, having a porn stash on their laptop as another example. Or having a 3g wireless dongle and therefore being able to access unfiltered internet access in school etc...

 

The issues aren't all going to be technical, but mostly behaviour and child protection related.

[Max_Power]

We have a system in place for the sixth form only - Similar to Ric_ it is not forced upon them, but offered as a "perk" of being in the sixth form, however our system is purely access to the internet via our web proxy and authenticated through the wireless system against their usual AD account nothing more.

 

Many of the problems identified are covered within our AUP which is very detailed to say the least, also the usual school policies that are in place.

 

Through the wireless they can accees, their email, mydocuments, shared area, VLE and of course the filtered internet. Bringing in your laptop with a dongle is as someone has stated the same as them using their mobile phone to look at the net, no difference and therefore the school is limited in what it can do, although there are various safeguarding policies in place etc.

 

We dont actually touch the laptops, or offer support on the matter and it works well - we havent TOUCH WOOD had any misuse or problems, parents actually welcomed the idea along with the sixth form.

[elsiegee40]

I couldn't believe it when this came up in strategy meeting at my school this morning! I think I've sunk it, but it was a heart-stopping few minutes!

 

@Grimley, what age are the students you have?

[Grimley]

I couldn't believe it when this came up in strategy meeting at my school this morning! I think I've sunk it, but it was a heart-stopping few minutes!

 

@Grimley, what age are the students you have?

well... were not actually a school as such more of a government department, I work in the IT Department for Forestry Tasmania, the only reason I am on this forum is because our network is very similar to a schools and many of the suggestions on this forum apply to our network.

[elsiegee40]

No problem with that answer! So many of us are in schools we tend to assume that anyone posting has hoardes of teenagers trying to get on facebook when they should be studying!

 

When you post, mention your business type so we can give you a better-taylored answer!

 

Schools and government depts are similar, BUT employees are mindful of their pay packets and are usually more careful!

 

Ignore all the stuff about safeguarding... the bit about using their own wifi might be a problem to you and potentially data protection. With school staff, and potentially yours, hardware that goes off site has to be encrypted. You really couldn't enforce this with home computers.

 

Enforcing a minimum standard for anti virus is big headache too.

Edited April 1, 2011 by elsiegee40