Proximity card systems

[mrbios]

I'm after recommendations for good door access proximity card systems with the following requirements:

 

I would want to create the proximity cards to be compatible with our MFPs and Printers (we need to buy an add on to each MFP/Printer to enable this but we know that bit is possible) the same proximity card would be used for door access.

 

We'd like to create the proximity cards to be unique to each member of staff so that when they go near a printer or MFP it knows exactly who they are as they'll be charged to their department OR to a cost centre they specify

 

Is it possible to create the proximity cards using AD logon information?

 

What companies could do what we require and what are the costs like?

 

Thanks to anyone who can supply such information

[nadeem]

I do this at my place (mifare card), works printers, MFDs, access control, cashless catering and library.

 

As you're more print focussed intially I can recommend IOT Welcome to IOT Plc Ricoh dealer to help you with this.

 

P.S. We use our AD to populate the Equitrac printing software

[mrbios]

mifare cards have been mentioned a few times in brief conversations i've had over it, sounds like that's the route we'll be going down. We may even look to use it for all the things you're using it for.

 

Currently we have uniflow and an all canon printer + MFD solution, we just need to bolt on the mifare card module to uniflow as well as possibly another module for us to do what we want with AD so we're all sorted on that front (probably should have mentioned that in the OP ) but it's the door access and card supplier / card making units that we're confused about, what systems would work in partnership with the canon systems, how much are mifare cards and card making machines? How much do the door access systems cost? good suppliers for those particular components etc etc

[SwedishChef]

We had mifare , and it caused a nightmare so many kids forgot their cards damaged them and were unable to get lunch etc etc, it caused a real headache for our finance and reception staff.

 

We have moved to a fingerprint system, and it works so much better using Cunninghams and biostore i wish we had done this first.

Check out papercut as a product to link to printing a mfd's using mfds.

[plexer]

We use the SALTO SVN system for our access control and the same card could be used for print management, cashless catering etc... Only the staff have access to the doors and their id card is their access control card.

 

You could also combine rfid and biometrics, staff rfid cards and biometrics for the students.

 

Ben

[mrbios]

plexer i was looking through the SALTO website earlier on, are you able to give me any indication as per the costs?

 

We would be looking to deploy this purely for staff to begin with, students would probably be a long way off yet. Does the SALTO equipment do what i would be after with regards to active directory? Excuse my ignorance but 2 days ago i knew literally nothing of card access systems beyond the simple usage basics, so i have literally no idea what is standard functionality and what isn't from an administrative point of view the SALTO website was pretty lacking in information, are you able to point me to any technical documents or similar?

 

Cheers

[mrbios]

I like the idea of using biometrics for the students.....but as stupid as this sounds we likely won't be allowed to :/ apparently parents have complained about data protection of having their kids finger prints on the current library system (they use it for taking out library books etc) which i think is bloody ridiculous, hopefully might be able to sway some people on that though should it come to the point that we want to implement something for the kids.

[plexer]

MrBios: atm from what I can see there is no direct link to AD with the SALTO software as it stores all it's data in an SQL db, but there are improvements all the time when we first installed it for small customers like schools the s/w was access based db but that has now changed.

 

I really like the flexibility of the various locking components available.

 

I'll dig out my cost comparison of SALTO vs Paxton and post it but if you'd like a chat give me a pm and I'll give you my number.

 

Card wise the system reads standard mifare rfid pvc cards you're provided with a usb rfid encoder device for authorising cards.

 

We have ours printed for us at a cost of abotu £1.60 per card I think.

 

Ben

[Willott]

For access control/visitor management we have VMPro/VMAccess - Visitor Management, ID Cards, from Visitor Management Limited UK. Uses mifare cards, so can then be used with the MFP system (if that's mifare reader). I'm trying to convince relevant people that we should extend papercut to have readers capable of integrating mifare cards... I'll see how that goes!

 

As far as the cards themselves are concerned - the mifare cards come with a unique ID embedded in their chip - as far as I know they can't be reprogrammed. You then add the card to the relevant system against the relevant user. With VMSecure, for permanent staff IDs, they have a web printing service (which can work out cheaper than buying mifare cards and printing yourself - depending on how many cards you print each year) with next day delivery. For temporary staff, we have stickable labels which are printed (on an inkjet currently, but they do work on some lasers), stuck to a mifare card and then a protective plastic sheet stuck over them. The benefit of these are that the cards can be reused (needs a little SQL query currently but they may add the ability into VMPro software) and assigned to a different user. Can't remember costs off top of head, but they're not too bad at all.

[plexer]

Mifare cards do have memory space that can be written to and used for other purposes however most access control systems are read only to the cards, SALTO is a read/write system.

 

Comparison attached.

 

Price Comparison of Paxton Access Control Versus SALTO Access Control.doc

 

Ben

[mrbios]

What concerns me about systems that can't take their information from AD is the way the system will generate reports and keeps statistics, as well as user provisioning etc

 

Our head wants to know exact costs for each individual users printng whether it be sat at a PC (uniflow has a client piece of software that pops up and asks users to select from the cost centres they're assigned to when printing documents) or stood infront of an MFD (the MFDs don't currently use the username to login, they're using the cost centre pin codes which is a very ancient and messy way of doing it, we're in the process of changing this). Then every month uniflow sends a report to the finance department listed by cost centres and they then charge each cost centre in FMS for the printing done that month. We'd like to make the MFDs login work off the proximity cards as mentioned, all the logins on the MFDs and printers will be synced with AD which means that cards ideally need to be synced with AD as well.

 

That's the requirements from the printing and reporting side of things, how the doors link in to that i'm not sure, would they even need to?

 

EDIT: 2 replies in the time it took me to type that, damn interruptions

[plexer]

Linking your printer control system with rfid cards and ad should be quite simple however the downside is that you on initial setup you will have some duplication, the users will have to be setup in the access control system and also have the serial number of their rfid card inserted into active directory as a piece of information in the same way as name, description etc...

 

Your printing monitor system is then configured to read this serial number from AD.

 

Ben

[mrbios]

Ah that's how i hoped, we currently have default cost centre pin codes set in the "Department" field in AD, and uniflow has been setup to pickup that field so that if someone is only assigned to a single cost centre they don't get a popup and it automatically uses that code, so we could just use a similar field for the rfid cards unique ID?

 

I think im beginning to understand how this is going to work

[plexer]

Ok a quick google and nothing really jumps out about access control systems that also integrate into AD directly I found one case study relating to a CISCO access control system that does but you can imagine how much that probably costs.

 

Ben

[plexer]

Ah that's how i hoped, we currently have default cost centre pin codes set in the "Department" field in AD, and uniflow has been setup to pickup that field so that if someone is only assigned to a single cost centre they don't get a popup and it automatically uses that code, so we could just use a similar field for the rfid cards unique ID?

 

I think im beginning to understand how this is going to work

 

Yup you would just read the rfid card and insert it's serial number into that field instead.

 

Ben

[plexer]

Ok I've just loaded up the SALTO admin program on my pc.

 

As well as the defaults there are also 3 customisable fields avaiable, one we use for job title but another could be used for ad username therefore if the printers rfid reader can read this piece of data it could lookup by username.

 

Ben

[mrbios]

Cheers plexer, you've been a wonderful help!

 

Last question, lost card...how do you remove them from the system? simply delete the unique ID from the users field in AD or is there a SALTO piece of software that you use to remove the card from the system? I guess assigning a new card is as easy as plonking the new unique ID into the AD field and/or salto system?

[mrbios]

Ooo another question as well, on the door system do they keep a log of who opened them and when?

[plexer]

Ok scrub my previous idea that field only gets added to the db it doesn't get written to the card.

 

Each card has a validity period i.e 7 days but that can be set to whatever you want.

 

After seven days if it hasn't been presented at an online reader it expires and will not operate any battery handle doors until it's presented to an online reader.

 

If a card is stolen then you just cancel a users key and issue them a new one the blacklist of lost/stolen keys is transferred to every lock.

 

Everything is logged, openings , failed openings, even if a door is opened by the switch on reception and which side of the door.

 

Ben

[plexer]

Just an update to my previous post about recording extra data on the cards and there is a configuration option to do so.

 

Ben

[mrbios]

Excellent cheers

 

I've just been trying to work out some very inaccurate estimated costs and i think to everything they want would cost in the region of £35000 That said, i did add more to the idea than was needed purely for the sake of a maximum estimate, something tells me it'll be rolled out over the course of 3-5 years

 

EDIT: also can doors be programmed only to open for certain cards? EG our server room door setup only to open for us?

 

EDIT2: scrap that £35000 figure, i didn't notice the cheaper wireless solutions haha. Do you have to use SALTO supplied gateways and repeaters? how much do they cost or are they included in your figures you had on your price comparison sheet?

Edited March 4, 2011 by mrbios

[mrbios]

Plexer: i forgot to ask, how customisable are the actual cards? Can you put school logo, user picture and information on them etc? as this is another one of the heads requirements i've yet to explore.

[plexer]

Yes you need to use the salto wireless hubs and repeaters if you want online monitoring of your battery doors however atm I am waiting for them to enhance that product line with poe versions.

 

The prices in my document were based on wireless upgradable handles, the wireless upgrade is approx £60 on top of that but can be fitted by yourself at a later date.

 

You do not need to have the battery handles connected via wireless to monitor what goes on on those doors as everybody audit trail from their card is uploaded anytime they validate themselves at an online door or online update point.

 

SALTO can also do maglocked doors with an offiline controller as well, they card is really the key to the whole system.

 

SALTO also do euro cylinders and now even rim cylinders as well.

 

Our cards are printed with the school logo, staff picture, staff name and job title.

 

Ben

[plexer]

And yes you can completely control who can access what doors so your IT staff can be the only ones with the server room and possibly your sitemanager but however you want it.

 

Ben

[mrbios]

Thanks yet again plexer, from the sounds of things it does everything we require and more, you've certainly given me enough information that i can go away write up a report on it for the head and contact a local supplier for price and further information.

 

Appears the company that does our alarm and CCTV systems also supplied and installed a SALTO door system in a local school, we're off to look at that school on tuesday morning and we have the local company coming in to look around and quote us for accurate pricing on tuesday afternoon Ah i love it when a plan comes together