What would you do?

[Easy_506]

Hi all,

 

I'm pretty new here, don't post often, but always glean lots of valuable information from this forum, so thanks to all you regulars who contribute!

 

I have a little conundrum and thought i'd get the opinions of those who know exactly what i'm talking about. To avoid complications, I won't go into exact specifics.

 

Basically, i'm an IT Technician, employed in an inner-city secondary for the last three years. I've been told by our head that as of April i'm being sub-contracted out to a local primary school for one day per week. I asked what was in this for me, and I was told - nothing (no big surprise there).

 

Having now been to look at the primary, i've seen that they essentially need a network manager. I can do the work required, but i'm a little annoyed that i've not been given a choice in the matter and i'm going to remain on the same (quite poor) technician's salary for continuing that role 4 days per week, and taking on the responsibility of another school.

 

What does everybody think?

[LosOjos]

It's a huge change in your contract, with a lot of extra responsibility - are you in a union? I'd make them aware immediately.

[witch]

Whilst I feel your pain ( I am the lone tech in a middle-deemed-secondary and a junior school) I think you will find that there isnt much you can do about it.

Will it impact your present job?

The other way is to get the job desc from your local authority - for example mine has two levels of tech before you get to NM, but NM has budget responsibility so I won't get that - but I am pushing hard for senior tech!

Otherwise I would see it as very good experience for when you want to move to your next job as NM

[Easy_506]

Yes it is. I work under a network manager, so what they're saying is that I take on the same as he does, just for a different school, and one day per week.

 

I'm not a member of any union, although i've been told that I should join one by most of the teaching staff here. I'm not really a unions kind of guy, but maybe I should get in touch with Unison...

[Kitkatninja]

We've taken on Primary schools in order to gain another technician. Do we get paid for this extra work? No. But it does contribute to, and in some cases cover, our CPD costs, our business credentials and the 4th member of our team.

 

Will it help with your appraisal/job review for a higher salary? Most likely (however a review for a higher salary doesn't mean you'll get one). Do you have a choice in the matter? Yes, you can stay and see how it goes (work wise, salary wise, etc), you can leave or if it really annoys you see what your union rep says (if you're a member). I'm not trying to be negative here, but most likely if you read your contract it will state "...and any other reasonable request..." which is basically a catch-all.

 

-Ken

Edited February 16, 2011 by Kitkatninja
more info

[alan-d]

You could also look at Voice - membership is approx £120 per year but unlike UNISON you can claim it back off the tax man

[Easy_506]

The other way is to get the job desc from your local authority - for example mine has two levels of tech before you get to NM, but NM has budget responsibility so I won't get that - but I am pushing hard for senior tech!

Otherwise I would see it as very good experience for when you want to move to your next job as NM

 

Yeah, good experience, but for me the cons outweigh the pros. Especially with regards to how much it'll impact things here at my original school (we like to keep uber-busy!).

[wesleyw]

that catch all is an easy point to fight though.

 

Wes

[Easy_506]

We've taken on Primary schools in order to gain another technician. Do we get paid for this extra work? No. But it does contribute to, and in some cases cover, our CPD costs, our business credentials and the 4th member of our team.

 

Will it help with your appraisal/job review for a higher salary? Most likely (however a review for a higher salary doesn't mean you'll get one). Do you have a choice in the matter? Yes, you can stay and see how it goes (work wise, salary wise, etc), you can leave or if it really annoys you see what your union rep says (if you're a member). I'm not trying to be negative here, but most likely if you read your contract it will state "...and any other reasonable request..." which is basically a catch-all.

 

-Ken

 

Thanks Ken. I'd like to think I DO have a choice in the matter...whether i'm with a union or not. In my opinion the school have already used up their 'any other reasonable request' credits when my role was adapted to include other things such as marketing/website building/live@edu email roll-out/parental engagement portal... I think those are reasonable add-ons to a Technician contract, but it seems crazy to me that you can tag on roles/responsibilities way above my pay-grade and call that 'reasonable'.

[teejay]

You could also look at Voice - membership is approx £120 per year but unlike UNISON you can claim it back off the tax man

Would also highly recommend The Voice, not affiliated to any political party, so tend not to have a fixed agenda and operate in a more professional manner from my dealings with them so far. You also don't get some propaganda paper sent to you with half a trees worth of leaflets advertising ambulance chasing solicitors, dodgy companies who will look at your tax and take a 50% comission on any rebate they can wangle, expensive insurance on which Unision get a cut, etc etc.

[alan-d]

Are there any travel costs involved that can be claimed for?

[TechSupp]

I work covering primaries and yes, I woulc consider my job to be Network Manager/Technician but in Primary afraid it would (nearly always as I think there is/are some primary classed Network Managers on here) be classed as Technician. I've tried but after evaluation (Ha!) they will only go as far as saying its technicain mainly because I dont officially have to manage anyone or put my signature on the orders yet I do all the quotes, sort the orders, manage how the budgets spent (unofficially!), training, etc etc.

As someone once said " I feel your pain!"

[elsiegee40]

You could always try and put a positive spin on this... think of it as Career Development. It's an opportunity to stretch your wings, try out something in a new environment and maybe learn a few new skills that will be handy for the CV and your next job application!

 

EDIT

 

Staff, both teaching and non-teaching , at the secondary where I'm governor regard this kind of things as normal. As an outstanding school it is regularly suporting other schools and staff get the opportunity to grow their careers in a way they wouldn't by just staying within the school's four walls. Those skills do get taken elsewheer eventually, but it is regarded as good training and done with the co-operation... the way you've been told probably doesn't help.

 

In these days of academiy trusts these collective arrangements with staff working over more than one school will become more and more common.

 

If the the arrangement is short-term, live with it. If this is 'forever, try to get your job description amended and travel expenses.

Edited February 16, 2011 by elsiegee40

[Iain.Faulkner]

Will you be expected to use your car to get to the primary school you will be supporting?

 

If so don't forget to upgrade your insurance to cover business usage as well. Plus, as has been said, will they be covering your costs?

[Easy_506]

I've already mentioned the upgrade of my car insurance to our finance manager, and any difference in cost will be covered by my school. As far as any other expenses go, i've been told not to expect any.

 

I think elsiegee40 has hit the nail on the head. And in principle I agree that this kind of move can be good for both school and employee, but as you said, it's more the way in which the 'big giant head' (as I like to call him) has gone about things. Not using specific figures here, but it's ultimately about me not wanting to fulfil a job worth £30k pa for only £20k pa. And whilst I do thrive on opportunities to advance and build experience, i'm also keenly aware that by undertaking this new role, I will be stuck in it for the foreseeable future...

[tbutcher]

You could always try and put a positive spin on this... think of it as Career Development. It's an opportunity to stretch your wings, try out something in a new environment and maybe learn a few new skills that will be handy for the CV and your next job application!

 

this was the reason i accepted it as a "reasonable request" and didn't push for a change in wage. we are now looking at taking on yet more schools, and therefore a technician to cover all visits. meaning i'm not doing any. and it's no longer part of my job role, so is no longer a positive thing or able to be added to the CV.

 

EDIT

in summary, push for the extra if you can manage it. i wasn't responsible for all aspects of it, decision making was done above me, so i can see the point that it is a reasonable request. still would have been nice though, even if it was a token amount extra in the wage slip.....

[sly888]

Hi all,

 

I'm pretty new here, don't post often, but always glean lots of valuable information from this forum, so thanks to all you regulars who contribute!

 

I have a little conundrum and thought i'd get the opinions of those who know exactly what i'm talking about. To avoid complications, I won't go into exact specifics.

 

Basically, i'm an IT Technician, employed in an inner-city secondary for the last three years. I've been told by our head that as of April i'm being sub-contracted out to a local primary school for one day per week. I asked what was in this for me, and I was told - nothing (no big surprise there).

 

Having now been to look at the primary, i've seen that they essentially need a network manager. I can do the work required, but i'm a little annoyed that i've not been given a choice in the matter and i'm going to remain on the same (quite poor) technician's salary for continuing that role 4 days per week, and taking on the responsibility of another school.

 

What does everybody think?

 

Not meaning to sound harsh but in the present employment market if you don't do it someone else will!

[Easy_506]

Not meaning to sound harsh but in the present employment market if you don't do it someone else will!

 

It's ok, I don't think that's harsh...it's true, and if there's someone out there who wants to take on what I do for one school, then take on a second school, and stay on the same wage that just barely covers my outgoings each month....fair play to them!

 

But I don't believe i'm in a position where if I said 'no' they could then get rid of me for someone more willing. And if they tried to i'd have a decent case in my favour.

[jayemm]

From my experience you will possibly find that your employment contract says you are employed by the LA/County Council and work at School X but can be directed by the School Governors to work elsewhere.

 

The other thing is are you going there one day per week for the whole day, and not going there ad hoc? If this is the case then technically you would not need Business Insurance as you will be driving to you place of work for that day, the primary school. If you go to your normal school then have to drive to the primary this would be classed as business use, would need business insurance, and be reasonable to expect business mileage reimbursement at HMRC recommended rates.

 

Is there really a change to your job role? You are a technician in a school and they want you to be a technician in a different school for one day a week. In what way do you think the job description has changed? I am not saying I am right, but want you to think about what will actually change.

 

If something will change and it is substantial then I would contact your LA/CC HR department and ask them on the process for changing a person's job description. They will probably have a proceedure for doing it which includes assessing the new job description to see if a wage increase is due.

[tbutcher]

The other thing is are you going there one day per week for the whole day, and not going there ad hoc? If this is the case then technically you would not need Business Insurance as you will be driving to you place of work for that day, the primary school. If you go to your normal school then have to drive to the primary this would be classed as business use, would need business insurance, and be reasonable to expect business mileage reimbursement at HMRC recommended rates.

 

insurance states that commuting is to "1 single place of work" therefore even if he was to commute to a different place of work 1 day a week, surely this would be business? and it's also time which that school is paying for as part of a contract, therefore he is being hired out as part of a business agreement, meaning that he would have a hard job arguing it.

 

travel expenses are designed to cover the costs of business insurance, and it doesn't cost a lot. I took business insurance at 18, it cost me £10-£15. worth it for saving the hassle.

[elsiegee40]

insurance states that commuting is to "1 single place of work" therefore even if he was to commute to a different place of work 1 day a week, surely this would be business? and it's also time which that school is paying for as part of a contract, therefore he is being hired out as part of a business agreement, meaning that he would have a hard job arguing it.

 

travel expenses are designed to cover the costs of business insurance, and it doesn't cost a lot. I took business insurance at 18, it cost me £10-£15. worth it for saving the hassle.

 

I think OP needs to read his insurance policy carefully, they will all be different. So many people have more than one job, or offices on split sites that I'm sure that insurance is achievable.

[witch]

I have to pay for business insurance - I have two COMPLETELY separate jobs but because they are both paid by the same LA they consider me 'on business' when I drive from one to the other, or even if I just go to one one day and the other the next. This would be your situation as well, I think

[HarryMonkey]

If you claim travel expenses for anything ... going on a course, going to BETT etc then you need business insurance. Some companies do it for free, an ex colleague of mine was quoted £300 which the school ended up paying for.

[SteveR]

I wouldn't be happy and would feel like I am being taken for a ride if I'm honest. You would be taking on more of a workload and have nothing to show for it.

 

Join a union and seek their advice (anyone that works in a school should be in a union.)

[GrumbleDook]

Ok .. a few things to say about what the difference can be between primary and secondary schools and your work there.

 

You may not be expected to be the primary equivalent of the NM. You may simply be a peripatetic technician who comes in to fix problems, not design the infrastructure etc. you might be expected to advise about the kit but not do the leg work getting quotes or putting orders in. It can vary so much about what you will be expected to do it is unbelievable ... but secondary schools vary so much between each other as well.

 

So ... don't get too worried about being expected to work 1 day a week in a primary school. As long as you are willing to listen to their needs and not force them to think like a secondary school then you will do well and learn a heck of a lot. You need to make sure that your workload at the secondary school is reduced accordingly. Folk in IT may be miracle workers but we get into trouble if we have to magic up more hours in the day! Apparently Aslan likes the way the world works right now!

 

Traveling ... if you are going there one day a week and not going into your main school then you can reasonably claim for the difference in travel. (ie it is 6 miles to your main school but 8 miles to your primary school, so you can claim 2 miles. You cannot claim for the travel from the secondary to the primary and back unless you have been to the secondary school that day for work purposes.)

 

Insurance ... often you are told you don't need to sort this since if you are just going to a different place of work and nowhere else then no change is needed, but there will be times you have to dash from one to another so make sure you get it. Most insurers can stick it on for you cheaply (I got mine free) but as already mentioned, if you ever claim any mileage expense then you are traveling on work time and/or business so you *have* to have business cover anyway. You will find in many schools that this is a requirement of your contract. At the LA I have to bring my licence, MOT, Tax and insurance each year for a check to make sure I am ok otherwise I cannot claim mileage. This can apply in schools too. The same way you are expected in some schools to wear certain attire (shirt & tie, etc) then having business insurance on your car insurance is a reasonable expectation.

 

If it is a change to your contract then unions may get involved, but many will just shrug their shoulders and wonder why you are moaning (to paraphrase one union rep I saw dressing down an LSA at a local event).

 

If you can try to get the primary school set up on whichever helpdesk you use. That way all your work can be tracked and if you are having to do a lot of the managerial stuff then it is documented and clear. It also means that should you be ill, be on holiday, leave the job or win the lottery (I prefer that to saying knocked down by a bus ... I like to think I am an optimist!) then your colleagues can see what is going on and fill in the blanks / deal with the backlog.

 

If you have not already got 'manager' in your title somewhere then this is also a brilliant chance for you to show that you can do the job and build up your CV. Many people do a bit extra to build up their CV / portfolio / experience without wanting more money. I am not saying that this is the case with you, but it is pretty normal. You do mention, however, that you have taken on extra things in the past. Now ... if these have been to replace things that have changed or, due to things running more efficiently, you have available time to take these things on then it is perfectly reasonable for the school to get you to do so. If they require more complex skills, greater specialist knowledge or involve more responsibility (either through managing people, budget responsibility, risk, or outside partners) then yes ... you have good grounds for saying it is unfair. Otherwise they are just moving things around and should it go all the way with a complaint the school can say they are taking reasonable action to make sure you have work to do, are giving you something of a similar level as to what you cover at the moment ... otherwise they would have too many staff for what they presently need and they will let you go.

 

How Ken (and a few other Northants Schools) are looking after primary schools is a pretty good model, it can be a good opportunity for the school and you as an individual. As long as you are not out of pocket then give it a whirl, give plenty of feedback to your line manager and to SLT (in both schools) and don't be scared to ask for more time or support if there are major pieces of work needed to be done.