Advice

[jonny_2010]

Hi

 

I am looking to move into industry. I would like peoples opinions on what certificates would be looked for by an employer for the position ofwindows system administrator.

 

I think mcsa ccna and Mcp

 

What do you think?

 

Cheers

 

Jon

[EduTech]

MCSE/MCSA are going to be no longer!

 

If you want to look at Microsoft Certifications, you need to start looking at the MCTS and MCITP

 

MCTS Certification | MCTS Training | Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist

MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) | Training Courses for IT Professionals

 

Also, If you are new to the industry it might be worth maybe volunteering some time to a community center or something to get yourself some expirience.

 

James.

[IanT]

Education Industry - When I interview people for posts like ICT Techies, Senior Techie, System Admins or Network Managers, I really don't care what certificates people may have or how many, or if you have a degree (I may scream at the next person who goes on about having a degree!!!), it just doesn't matter IMO, I look for that spark to learn,enthusiasm or experience in technologies. (if your young the spark and enthusiasm apply)

 

People will dis-agree with me but from my past roles over the years I've recruited some good guys, experience is more valuable than certificates.

 

(I know this doesn't really answer your question but I see so many people concentrating on certs or even obsessed with getting them!)

[elsiegee40]

Valid points IanT... Enthusiasm, adaptability and an ability to think on your feet are most valuable for those starting out in schools

[IanT]

I've come across so many people over the years who have had M$, Cisco etc certs who have fallen over the most basic troubleshooting - I suppose this is why I have such a strong and blunt opinion on this topic, if you cant do the most basic of tasks\troubleshooting in the REAL WORLD\ENVIRONMENT which you learn in all these courses\exams\classrooms\labs etc then you are no use to me.

 

(Again I know this doesn't really answer your question so I do apologies!, im on my high horse! so someone please push me off! )

[elsiegee40]

* Gives IanT a sneaky shove *

[Dos_Box]

Personally the only certificate I'd consider would be the 'Windows 98, 2000, XP, Vista and W7, Server 2000, 2003, 2008, 2008, Linux, Mac, R2, Exchange 2003, Exchange 2007, Exchange 2010, Retrospect, BacupExec, Ghost, FOG, Active Directory, Office 2000, 2003, 2007, Open Office, 'insert random educational app here' and Adobe Creative Suite, Certified Practicioner'.

if you don't have that one then I'm afraid your degree ain't going to cut it.

Oh, and that's the starting point for network managers.

[mattx]

All exams find out is what you don't know. Waste of time. I've said it before and I'll say it again - me and my old fellow colleges with 15 years in industry ICT showed up just what a waste of time exams and bits of paper meant as time and time again we showed up the outsourced people sent to us. Not their fault, they wanted and needed the experience - putting the 'parrot fashion' exams they had passed in practice was just a waste of time as what they learn't just never happened in the 'real world'

You just have to go out there and do it - and to provide examples of where you have done it to employers with a proper structured interview by people who know what they are talking about and not 'ICT managers' who 99.9% of the time are failed techies who have been 'promoted out of the way' because of their incompetence.

Edited January 2, 2011 by mattx

[john]

When I recruited my technician, I looked for skills and experience over the bits of paper. I've got a great technician, he's hands on, good with the students and gets on well with them and staff, and is skilled. He may not have 100's of MCSEs from his folder of accolade's but he's worked hard and is keen to learn as he's shown all year and that's a big factor in a school. One candidate was very oh i've got my bits of paper i am amazing yet they were stumped on a simple fault finding issue question which showed his faults up instantly he was a learner who was taught to pass the exam, and the fact he did a complete MCSE in under 1 month whilst unemployed and when I googled the firm that did the course they seem a very much a boot camp place

 

Real world experience is a big factor in my recruiting, you won't be ignored for having paper qualifications I just like to see you know what to do with them as well as having them.

[mattx]

When I recruited my technician, I looked for skills and experience over the bits of paper. I've got a great technician, he's hands on, good with the students and gets on well with them and staff, and is skilled. He may not have 100's of MCSEs from his folder of accolade's but he's worked hard and is keen to learn as he's shown all year and that's a big factor in a school. One candidate was very oh i've got my bits of paper i am amazing yet they were stumped on a simple fault finding issue question which showed his faults up instantly he was a learner who was taught to pass the exam, and the fact he did a complete MCSE in under 1 month whilst unemployed and when I googled the firm that did the course they seem a very much a boot camp place

 

Real world experience is a big factor in my recruiting, you won't be ignored for having paper qualifications I just like to see you know what to do with them as well as having them.

 

Christ, there are not many people like you around -shame. What you have stated is spot on.

[john]

Christ, there are not many people like you around -shame. What you have stated is spot on.

 

I did have to put to the head about the bootcamp person as he saw lots of Microsoft and Cisco on the list and he knows they are big IT Names and was wow lots of them I did say they seem very bootcamp based and explained why i didn't agree to them, so we interviewed that person as well and in the end it was proved correct by questioning them

[michael2k6]

What John said. I managed to get a lucky break when i was 16 and went from there. Hard work and enthusiasm has got me to where i am now.

I don't have A levels, let alone a degree. I would like some MS qualifications though just to see if i'm missing anything.

The only thing i would say to bear in mind is where you want to end up, rather than the job you want to go for now.

I know for a fact that at some point, later on in life, i'll go for a job in a much higher position. The only difference between me and another candidate will be that i have 20 years experience. They have 15 and a degree. That first 5 years isnt going to make a difference as the industry is so changing and so the degree will be viewed at a higher value.

That's the only thing i'm scared of. So if you're young, and you're enthusiastic enough and clever enough to go and get the job now, you still will be with your degree / quals. It depends how quickly you want to move into the job.

 

My ten penneth

Mic

[EduTech]

Likewise Pretty Much what john has said, When I was at school i used to help out the IT Dept since from around Year 8ish (14) helping them out after school and also going in during the holidays (half term/6 weeks) etc. not being paid but managed to gain some real life expirience. The IT Manager at the time left and his brother took the position which was great because he already knew about me so i was able to carry on doing so up until i left school in around Year 10/11 as i left school early i went and worked voluntary for a Community Center and stuck my name on some recruitment companys lists and did some part time work for around a year.

 

After that i then went back to the school i was educated at and worked for around 3/4 months voluntary and then they said they would pay me a basic salary for a wee while. after around a year i was then employed as a Technician and Virtual Learning Platform Developer (SharePoint) where i was then properly employed and on a decent(ish) salary but whilst money did not really matter at that age i managed to get so much expirience with new technologies including Virtualisation etc. I developed sharepoint from scratch which helped in developing my skills in that area and also was left to look into Virtulisation. I was there for around 2 years just before i left i helped with the Wireless Enhancement and VDI Project which were the final things i managed to get my hands on and learnt so much from doing so.

 

Okay I may have made some mistakes, but everyone does but the main thing is i was learning on the spot and every day i expaned my knowledge more and more. If it was not for the Network Manager there giving me the oppertunity to do that i don't think i'd know what i do today.

 

John knows me from quite a few years ago when i used to pick his brains constantly and forums like this also help in that aspect.

 

The Key is expirience, i don't really have any qualifications at all because i never went to collect etc. but i have alot of valuable expeirence behind me which i have noticed goes a very long way.

 

Be Enthusiastic and have a will to learn new things and develop one anothers skills in a team of people, be proactive and listen and don't be affraid to ask questions. and not everyone chooses or is willing to do it but i used to work stupid amounts of hours more than i was contracted to do and like many others on here have probably done the same. but i know that all those extra hours have paid off or/ will in the future.

 

Also Networking is another Key to the world of Education and IT, I personally attend any event i can to be apart of something and meet new people. BETT and EduGeek Conferences as we as many more all help to provide you with contacts for the future and also people whom you can talk to and pick there brains etc.

 

 

James.

[IanT]

Likewise Pretty Much what john has said, When I was at school i used to help out the IT Dept since from around Year 8ish (14) helping them out after school and also going in during the holidays (half term/6 weeks) etc. not being paid but managed to gain some real life expirience. The IT Manager at the time left and his brother took the position which was great because he already knew about me so i was able to carry on doing so up until i left school in around Year 10/11 as i left school early i went and worked voluntary for a Community Center and stuck my name on some recruitment companys lists and did some part time work for around a year.

 

After that i then went back to the school i was educated at and worked for around 3/4 months voluntary and then they said they would pay me a basic salary for a wee while. after around a year i was then employed as a Technician and Virtual Learning Platform Developer (SharePoint) where i was then properly employed and on a decent(ish) salary but whilst money did not really matter at that age i managed to get so much expirience with new technologies including Virtualisation etc. I developed sharepoint from scratch which helped in developing my skills in that area and also was left to look into Virtulisation. I was there for around 2 years just before i left i helped with the Wireless Enhancement and VDI Project which were the final things i managed to get my hands on and learnt so much from doing so.

 

Okay I may have made some mistakes, but everyone does but the main thing is i was learning on the spot and every day i expaned my knowledge more and more. If it was not for the Network Manager there giving me the oppertunity to do that i don't think i'd know what i do today.

 

John knows me from quite a few years ago when i used to pick his brains constantly and forums like this also help in that aspect.

 

The Key is expirience, i don't really have any qualifications at all because i never went to collect etc. but i have alot of valuable expeirence behind me which i have noticed goes a very long way.

 

Be Enthusiastic and have a will to learn new things and develop one anothers skills in a team of people, be proactive and listen and don't be affraid to ask questions. and not everyone chooses or is willing to do it but i used to work stupid amounts of hours more than i was contracted to do and like many others on here have probably done the same. but i know that all those extra hours have paid off or/ will in the future.

 

Also Networking is another Key to the world of Education and IT, I personally attend any event i can to be apart of something and meet new people. BETT and EduGeek Conferences as we as many more all help to provide you with contacts for the future and also people whom you can talk to and pick there brains etc.

 

 

James.

 

Well Said James, i'm with you

[michael2k6]

Yep, well said James, are you sure you aren't me?

[EduTech]

Yep, well said James, are you sure you aren't me?

 

No But Maybe we are very similar in our ways of thinking..!

[IanT]

Remember James your my long lost brother!

[strawberry]

Why not look at some job adds to see the skills they require then go away , look at the courses and see which one is a fit. You'll need to gain the relevant knowledge, no one will employ you on the basis of a qualifcation alone. Also you may need to start off below system admin.

[EduTech]

Remember James your my long lost brother!

 

I need to get my family tree sorted! i seem to have alot of brothers and twins!

[john]

Remember James your my long lost brother!

 

As I know both James and Michael2K6 I can assure you they defo are not long lost brothers So he can keep his greedy eyes off his sports cars

[EduTech]

As I know both James and Michael2K6 I can assure you they defo are not long lost brothers So he can keep his greedy eyes off his sports cars

 

What Sports Cars!

[GrumbleDook]

One of the problems is not the interview process but the selection process. I have seen some good people fall by the wayside because it is standard company / school / college policy to ask for certain things. Sometimes Certs are a way of getting your foot in the door or simply letting you shine out. If the schools is looking for 6 candidates to take to interview (and they expect 1 or 2 to pull out or not turn up) then how do you shine out from the 40+ applicants they have had?

 

The thing that always hampers me in these is either the degree thing or not being a qualified teacher. I know that long term I will need a degree to progress down certain lines ... but it is not the be all and end all of things. Other Certs ... I had a chat recently with someone (and now regretting not taking their offer) who asked me about Certs ... I told them that if they wanted me to learn about implementing a specific technology I would do, I would take 3 months to get up to the required standard, during which I would also be asking the advice of others who are doing it already, and learning from experience. My two greatest assets are to be able to learn quickly, and to have a fantastic network of professionals who can give help and advice.

 

If you can prove you can learn quickly, adapt, plan and communicate then that will do wonders for you ... but you have to learn to shine ... either through Certs or a wonderful CV (or both).