camcorders

[mrbios]

Music department do performances both on and off stage, require much better sound quality recording than they currently get from the cameras they have at the moment.

 

Without asking for a general price we're aiming for, what would you recommend with good picture quality but above all good sound recording quality?

 

The videos eventually need to be submitted to the exam board on DVD, i don't mind having to burn them to a DVD each time so HDD cameras are preferred (not had good experience with direct to DVD cameras)

[3s-gtech]

I think a major part of this is using an external mic or mics instead, you can have a wireless or wired setup which runs into the mic input on the camera, this should make a huge difference. Worth a try on any existing units you have.

 

I'm also currently looking at high def units, we have an SD Sony HDD model which has been fantastic - great sound (used for Performing Arts, Music, PE etc), decent pic quality, 30GB storage and nice compatible file formats (straight into Movie Maker and Live Movie Maker). I'll probably go for another Sony unit (Media Studies this time).

[mrbios]

Ahhh never thought of that, they have lots of mics, i'll take a look at there cameras and see what i need to connect them up, i think we do need to improve the video quality as well though as the cameras we have at the moment are, in a work, crap!

 

I'll aim for the external mics but is there anything you'd suggest in particular camera wise?

[Brpilot99]

I do the recording on our JVC everio cams and at the same time record the sound using audacity through a couple of decent shure microphones through a (very) simple mixing desk. I then use serif movimaker 4 to take out the old sound track (the one from the cam)and add in the decent one from audacity... I use a clapper board to get the sync sorted at the beginning.

[dayzd]

I do the recording on our JVC everio cams and at the same time record the sound using audacity through a couple of decent shure microphones through a (very) simple mixing desk. I then use serif movimaker 4 to take out the old sound track (the one from the cam)and add in the decent one from audacity... I use a clapper board to get the sync sorted at the beginning.

 

You can run into difficulties with this solution however, if the recording devices run out of sync over time (which they may well do). I've done this before and ended up with a 2-3 second skew over the course of about an hour.

 

Your best solution would be what 3s-gtech suggested and try to run better quality mics into your cameras - this way the audio will be recorded in sync from the start.

[Brpilot99]

You can run into difficulties with this solution however, if the recording devices run out of sync over time (which they may well do). I've done this before and ended up with a 2-3 second skew over the course of about an hour.

 

Your best solution would be what 3s-gtech suggested and try to run better quality mics into your cameras - this way the audio will be recorded in sync from the start.

 

Ive never had a problem with syncing even after having done many xmas/easter plays etc ... I did however have a problem with sync when burning the DVD using Nero .. Its a known problem apparently ... I now use Super to do my burning and have not had any problems attall ... maybe the JVC's are super accurate?

Also I use this method because I use multiple cams with differing angles ......

[Brpilot99]

Ive never had a problem with syncing even after having done many xmas/easter plays etc ... I did however have a problem with sync when burning the DVD using Nero .. Its a known problem apparently ... I now use Super to do my burning and have not had any problems attall ... maybe the JVC's are super accurate?

Also I use this method because I use multiple cams with differing angles ......

 

Sorry meant Dvdflick to burn Super to convert ....

[3s-gtech]

I've not nailed down a specifiic yet - tending to find a decent looking Sony HD which records to SD card, then Google for reviews etc. My budget is around £300 though, you may be able to beef the features up if you can spend more.

[dayzd]

Ive never had a problem with syncing even after having done many xmas/easter plays etc

 

You're lucky, then. Clearly you're using identical cameras or something, because when I've done it with mixed manufacturer/model cameras and a mini-disc based audio recording I've hit problems every time!

[K.C.Leblanc]

You're lucky, then. Clearly you're using identical cameras or something, because when I've done it with mixed manufacturer/model cameras and a mini-disc based audio recording I've hit problems every time!

 

It could also be some sort of NTSC/Pal muddle.

[kevbaz]

Just yesterday i orders a Panasonic SD60

Panasonic SD60 Full HD Camcorder With SD Card: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

 

its got brilliant reviews and ticks all the boxes for me

 

Trusted reviews give it a rave review and its also won a few awards

 

Panasonic HDC-SD60 review - Camcorder reviews - TrustedReviews

 

 

hurry up mr postman!!

[Brpilot99]

You're lucky, then. Clearly you're using identical cameras or something, because when I've done it with mixed manufacturer/model cameras and a mini-disc based audio recording I've hit problems every time!

 

I use the same make and type ... so maybe thats it ?? They are HDD type cams. Thats a thought for the future though if we decide to go HDef, change them all at the same time for identical make and models .......

[dayzd]

It could also be some sort of NTSC/Pal muddle.

 

Nope. Luckily I know enough not to mix them! I've always put it down to the fact that one of the three cameras I commonly use is DV-based, which from what I've heard has bad/no proper audio syncing as it records... Other cameras (HDD/SD) haven't shown the effect against each other.

[dayzd]

I use the same make and type ... so maybe thats it ?? They are HDD type cams. Thats a thought for the future though if we decide to go HDef, change them all at the same time for identical make and models .......

 

As above, I think the cuplrit was the one DV camera thrown in the mix...

[K.C.Leblanc]

That could be it, I had to encode a longish video into DV and by the end the audio was out of sync.

[mrbios]

Change of plan, if you had a lot of money to spend, say a grand or so to attempt to do a professional level of recording for shows etc what would you go for?

 

Over the years (MANY years) the music teacher here has put on 100s of shows, the recording for every single one has been shoddy at best, you can barely here whats going on, the chances of you recognising a particular person without knowing who they are beforehand is highly unlikely etc. So i'm trying to put it to them to buy a proper piece of kit to use for years to come, rather than spending £200 on another piece of crap that'll do nothing to improve the current situation.

 

EDIT: oh and the recording would be from the back of the hall so would need to pick up clear sound from an echoing envionment (don't even know if that's possible) and a good picture in low and bright light

[Andrew_C]

attempt to do a professional level of recording for shows

 

 

EDIT: oh and the recording would be from the back of the hall so would need to pick up clear sound from an echoing envionment (don't even know if that's possible) and a good picture in low and bright light

Not going to happen. You need to get the mics in the right place, which is near the action. Probably a stereo pair located on the centre line of the auditorium, maybe hung, but not too near lighting cables. Unless you do at least this, it WILL sound shabby. In an (more) ideal world you'd use close mics and mix down to a stereo feed to the camera, but that opens whole fresh cans of worms.

[mrbios]

In that case we'll scrap the idea of improving the main hall recordings because it'd cost too much, but we still wish to improve the recordings they do in classrooms where they go up one by one and either sing or play an instrument etc

 

I guess the best way to improve this would be to have a microphone attached to a camera with the cameras internal mic switched off? Any recommendations on what camera to buy with an external mic port for this and a decent quality microphone for the job?

 

EDIT: what im looking at now is decent microphones, specific for requirement (one specific to instruments and one specific to vocals) but once you have good quality from those i guess unless we had a camera with XLR connections there would need to be something in between?

Edited November 8, 2010 by mrbios

[Andrew_C]

would be to have a microphone attached to a camera with the cameras internal mic switched off?

 

unless we had a camera with XLR connections there would need to be something in between?

Perhaps the mic on a stand nearer the performer would be better. You wouldn't necessarily need kit in between the mic and the camera, a simple adaptor may suffice. However if you go for a condenser mic, you will need to provide "phantom power". Some cameras may provide this as a feature (probably "Pro" only), an in line brick type power supply is available, or a mixer. The downside is that as with laptop power supplies, running the camera off the mains, and other mains kit CAN induce audio interference. Sometimes, maybe, if you are unlucky...

[mrbios]

phantom power from the likes of a preamp such as this one: M-Audio Audio Buddy | The Production Room ?

 

I love the whole pro audio thing but do i don't understand any it at all!

[laserblazer]

Most condenser mics for camcorders have a battery built in somewhere. I've got one of these BeachTek DXA-2T Universal Camcorder Adapter I connect one channel to a shotgun mic. and the other to a radio mic. mounted in front of the stage. I then balance levels using the Beachtek. It's about as good as you can get without live feeds from sound systems and loads of mics and wires but still needs a lot of fine tuning in post.

[Brpilot99]

I dont think you will find a voice/instrument specific microphone .. Most come in 2 flavours ... Uni directional or Omni directional Uni tends to be for voice/single instrument Omni is for recording a wide sound source such as a choir etc.

For multiple mikes use a mixing desk such as

 

Behringer XENYX 502 Mixing Desk Mixing Console on eBay (end time 19-Nov-10 15:05:18 GMT)

Thats 5 in 1 out to the camera or whatever you are using to capture the audio track.