Microsoft or Cisco certification??????

[keira]

Hi, I am I have just completed my graduation and want to try my luck in the field of IT. Can some body tell me whether Microsoft or Cisco certificates will be beneficial for a beginner like me in today’s Job scenario?

[mattx]

Hi, I am I have just completed my graduation and want to try my luck in the field of IT. Can some body tell me whether Microsoft or Cisco certificates will be beneficial for a beginner like me in today’s Job scenario?

 

In my opinion no. Hands on experience is better than waving bits of paper in front of people. Providing real world examples of where you have solved a problem / implemented a project and explaining the process in how you did it holds much more value. Someone may have all the bits of paper in the world which shows they can cram and give answers to problems in which they have revised for. Stick them in a real world situation with users / staff on their back and they will most probably crumble. Problem is 'managers' tend to like CVs of people with these bits of paper as they themselves are normally failed ex IT workers of some sort. You also have these types of people interviewing who again have had no real training or experience in how to interview - hence you end up with morons in some places of position who have no common sense and who are useless at everything...............Just like me in fact.

Get on e-bay, buy yourself a second hand server, get a cheap workstation - install Server 2008 / Nix / Samba or whatever, break it, then fix it, then learn.

Edited July 28, 2010 by mattx

[jamesb]

In my opinion no. Hands on experience is better than waving bits of paper in front of people.

 

Better still is having both, but experience needs to come before qualifications and you need to be looking at them for the right reason, and with the right approach. Just cramming for the exam not only will harm you in future when it transpires that you don't know what you should, it also devalues the qualifications and all who actually approach them to learn rather than cram.

 

Problem is 'managers' tend to like CVs of people with these bits of paper as they themselves are normally failed ex IT workers of some sort.

 

Again this is why you need the knowledge to back up your qualifications, not a list of exam answers stuck in your head. If you do have both the knowledge, and the qualification, you will be well-placed.

[mattx]

Better still is having both, but experience needs to come before qualifications and you need to be looking at them for the right reason, and with the right approach. Just cramming for the exam not only will harm you in future when it transpires that you don't know what you should, it also devalues the qualifications and all who actually approach them to learn rather than cram.

 

 

 

Again this is why you need the knowledge to back up your qualifications, not a list of exam answers stuck in your head. If you do have both the knowledge, and the qualification, you will be well-placed.

 

I would rather stick pins in my eyes that go through the Money Making MS / Cisco Exams. I'm too old for them now anyway and generally hate anything IT wise out of work. Much more important things in life than bleeding boring ICT and all the crap it entails.

 

I'm off for some physiotherapy then into the school for bleeding boring ICT work...... /Rant Over

Edited July 28, 2010 by mattx

[garrya100]

From the other side of the fence- I'm the manager, and I'm not a failed IT guy, and I'm a highly qualified IT guy and trainer. When I'm interveiwing candidates I'm looking for experience and some qualifications.

 

I want the guy/girl who has the drive to get some qualifications of his/her own and some experience. They're the ones that are keen to learn, are also the easiest to train.

 

I would prefer the guy with a CCENT, or Network+, or the equivalent from Juniper or HP or something from M$ than the guy who believes he's good enough with any further learning.

 

In this game if you're not prepared to update your skills you might as well get out and go and direct traffic.

 

My advice, find something you're interested in learning about, it doesn't really matter if it's Cisco, Microsoft, HP, VMware or CompTIA, show your prospective employer you're keen to learn. Get some old hardware and pull it apart/rebuild it and learn some practical skills. Find someone to give you work experience and get some references from them.

 

Show any prospective employer you have the basic knowledge to start a job, and you know where to look for more info. That's the sort of candidate employers are looking for.

 

On your journey collect more skills and move up the ladder.

 

Over the years I've collected qualifications from Dell, Apple, Microsoft, VMWare and Cisco. I have also studied and received qualifications that were not a job requirement in Education and Training, Business Management, Project Management, as well as my original qualifications in Electrical Engineering/Industrial Computing and Telecommunication.

 

I'm not an exam junkie, I simply took each opportunity to learn a new skill when a job situation required it.

 

Today I'm well paid, and run a department with a team of 3.5 and a budget of over $1m, and the responsibility for the design, installation and management of all the IT infrastruture in the school, and also all the teacher IT training. Anybody with a bit of go in them could do it too.

Edited July 28, 2010 by garrya100

[mattx]

On your journey collect more skills and move up the ladder.

 

Sounds like you have taken some management 'buzzword / phrases' exams too !!

[jamesfed]

Like alot of people have already said experiance should come first and then qulifications.

Schools are a great place to start out (IMO) as they usaly use a wide variety of hardware/software so you can get familiar with as much as possible as fast as possible.

Once you are happy and settled in start thinking about personal development along the lines of certifications (make sure however there is provision for this in your contract) - start with something like a MCTS in Windows 7 and then move into whatever intrests you in servers.

 

As mattx said - build your own testing server, something with a AMD Dual Core (Athlon with Hardware Virtulisation) a low cost case/motherboard and 8GB of RAM should be more than enough to run pretty much any server application - this will help you immensley in learning how servers truely work.

[cookie_monster]

I agree with the above you need practical experience, as already stated schools are a great place to start as you'll get a crack at everything.

I would say though from experience if you're applying for jobs in larger companies NOT having certs can mean that you miss out in the paper sift, I've been told on many occasions that if HR are shortlisting and they've been told MCSA/Cisco etc and you don't have it they'll put you in the bin without reading on. I'll be honest I've had more luck getting interviews sice having an MCSA, before that my 9 years practical networking skills on a range of systems didn't seem to get me a look in. Getting a couple of MCP exams desktop etc really isn't difficult, I'd aim for a low level job for experience then get a couple of them under your belt.

[bio]

I also agree that one needs to have both. Hands-on experience and a CV with certifications on them. In the netherlands you will not get interview if you do not have any certifications. I participated on a IT certification board for many years now. I normally suggest to following path for newly trainees : A+ , Network+, ITIL, MSCA, CCNA, MCITP, PRINCE2....

Its a long path that might take you a year or 2 but you'll have a solid base to start of (with good knowledge) in IT business.

 

bio...

[RobMongoose]

Find out if your university has any affiliation with a testing centre. I was lucky while I was at uni as mine had an MS testing centre and a Cisco academy so students and graduates could take the tests at a discounted price. Yes, experience is more important, but having a few certs definately can't hurt!

[gshaw]

Definitely you need the hands-on experience as problem solving, designing a system to fit a need and the other "soft" skills don't come through certificates. I've gone through a lot of applications for IT Technicians and interviewed quite a few at work and the amount of highly qualified people on paper doesn't always match up to their results on a technical test or basic practical task

 

Doesn't hurt to do the cert in the background (self study and pay £80 for the exam won't cost the earth either) once you're getting the day-to-day experience or if you need to learn a particular product for a project e.g. updating your knowledge for a new version of Exchange etc but to do it as the sole method of getting a job probably isn't the best way imo

[jsnetman]

I'm too old for them now anyway and generally hate anything IT wise out of work

 

I'm 50 this year and just passed my first MS cert and thoroughly enjoyed it, it's not really that expensive, £30 for the book and £88 for the test and you get a 15% off voucher. But to answer the post I have to agree that experience far outweighs the paper quals, it has been known for people to do these certs simply on memory and will be exposed if employed only on the basis of those certs. They are very handy to have on your CV though.

[featured_spectre]

Experience + certifications + knowledge to use certifications = ideal.

 

Experience should come first though.

[sideh]

In my opinion no. Hands on experience is better than waving bits of paper in front of people. Providing real world examples of where you have solved a problem / implemented a project and explaining the process in how you did it holds much more value. Someone may have all the bits of paper in the world which shows they can cram and give answers to problems in which they have revised for. Stick them in a real world situation with users / staff on their back and they will most probably crumble. Problem is 'managers' tend to like CVs of people with these bits of paper as they themselves are normally failed ex IT workers of some sort. You also have these types of people interviewing who again have had no real training or experience in how to interview - hence you end up with morons in some places of position who have no common sense and who are useless at everything...............Just like me in fact.

Get on e-bay, buy yourself a second hand server, get a cheap workstation - install Server 2008 / Nix / Samba or whatever, break it, then fix it, then learn.

 

If you'd done the ccna you'd know how to route two different networks.

 

With regards to certs, most are useless. I did the comptia a+ and don't bother putting it on my cv. The ccna on the other hand was much much harder, and the ccnp even more so. The great thing about the Cisco stuff is that it teaches a lot of general networking concepts and not just Cisco specific stuff. Some of the terminology is slightly different but that's about it. The exams are very hard. For example, they give you a network simulator and will ask you to find x amount of faults without any clues. It could be an interface with a broadcast address set or a mismatched duplex/speed setting etc. They will also disable certain commands to make it harder.

 

If I had to back to the beginning of my career I would start with the CCNA and then possibly the CCNP. This will help get your foot in the door. For everything else I just read the docs/buy a book or do a short training course.

[ants1974]

If you can pass the CCNA then the microsoft exams seem easy compared.

[teejay]

True, the problem is a lot of job applications have Microsoft certification as a requirement, so you don't get past the tick box HR droids without it.

[cookie_monster]

True, the problem is a lot of job applications have Microsoft certification as a requirement, so you don't get past the tick box HR droids without it.

 

 

Yep as I stated above any large company will sift on requirements like that, if you want a shot at those jobs you need the paper. As far as the company is concerned if you've gone to the effort of getting the qualification off your own back then if shows you're interested in self improvement and progression, that's a major interview concern already answered and all the can't be bothereds sifted. Simple...or so I've been told by more than one member of HR staff.

[keira]

I agree with the above you need practical experience, as already stated schools are a great place to start as you'll get a crack at everything.

I would say though from experience if you're applying for jobs in larger companies NOT having certs can mean that you miss out in the paper sift, I've been told on many occasions that if HR are shortlisting and they've been told MCSA/Cisco etc and you don't have it they'll put you in the bin without reading on. I'll be honest I've had more luck getting interviews sice having an MCSA, before that my 9 years practical networking skills on a range of systems didn't seem to get me a look in. Getting a couple of MCP exams desktop etc really isn't difficult, I'd aim for a low level job for experience then get a couple of them under your belt.

 

 

Thanks for your reply regarding practical experience. What about Bootcamps? Are they helpful in getting knowledge,certificate and hands on experience???

[jsnetman]

I have heard of these bootcamps and they are expensive, maybe a couple of thousand for a week intensive. If you have that amount of time to spare just do it yourself with the MS press book and maybe some extra exam tests from any of the main companies that do them. But without a fair bit of knowledge on any of these subjects it would be difficult even doing it the bootcamp way. If you don't have any real hands on experience get a fair specced PC and install some virtual software, Create a network and then tinker with it until you know it inside out.

[strawberry]

They are, but you have to pay a fortune for it and its an unnatural knowledge. Your better off learning using books and training vids and getting real life experience at the same time. It will mean for the next 3-5 years your learning on the hoof but your knowledge will be complete and you'll be considered far more valuable than the experienced or trained guys.

[jamesb]

Thanks for your reply regarding practical experience. What about Bootcamps? Are they helpful in getting knowledge,certificate and hands on experience???

 

It depends on how you learn - if you've got the experience and just need something to bring it all together then they can be invaluable, though they are very high pressure (the good ones anyway - usually about 12-14 hours study a day with breaks only for food over a week or two). If that suits your learning style, they're worth doing. If it doesn't then you're better off self-teaching or going with evening classes.

[maestromasada]

experience first, right, we all agreed, but that is not enough. To stand out you need to also have a minimun number of qualification, a least a MCP or something related to the field you want to progress to. Get a decent hardware, install VMWare and get your virtual network in house, do it and re-do it again.

In my humble opinion experience and qualifications are not rivals, they are like bread and butter!

Go luck and try for part time jobs in schools during, we are normally busy during this time, aren't we???

[somabc]

Bootcamps are expensive, but they are probably the easiest way to pass (without cheating). Someone should spoon feed you all the info you need and answer any questions so in 1 week you are an 'expert'.

 

Whether you can then apply that on the job is another matter though.

[keira]

Bootcamps are expensive, but they are probably the easiest way to pass (without cheating). Someone should spoon feed you all the info you need and answer any questions so in 1 week you are an 'expert'.

 

Whether you can then apply that on the job is another matter though.

 

Hi,

Few of my friends have attended some Boot Camp in Asia, probably India and according to them the quality of the training was good and it was completed in a short period of time and the price was okay. Moreover they also had the chance to explore the country. I am thinking of taking up one Boot camp. But am not sure where. Does anyone here have any idea of boot camps? Feedbacks are welcome

[jamesb]

Hi,

Few of my friends have attended some Boot Camp in Asia, probably India and according to them the quality of the training was good and it was completed in a short period of time and the price was okay. Moreover they also had the chance to explore the country. I am thinking of taking up one Boot camp. But am not sure where. Does anyone here have any idea of boot camps? Feedbacks are welcome

 

I always recommend the same training company to anyone who asks me - Firebrand do some exceptional residentials courses and are well worth a look. I've done several of them to date.

 

To be honest, if you have the chance to explore the country then the boot camp probably isn't intense enough. I wouldn't recommend going for your cert in India.