Chairs in ICT Rooms

[Guest coquet636]

I know there not technically hardware but wasnt too sure where to post this.

 

We are having two rooms kittted out in ther summer and was asked what the current state of play is with using normal classroom chairs instead of computer chairs.

 

Looking all over this i can see theres quite a bit of discussion normally ending up with the head saying " normal chairs are cheaper so get on with it".

 

BUT

 

I assume they have to have adjustable chairs even though they only have 50 min lessons.

 

am i correct or could we get away with normal chairs. Also is there any legislation to backup the argument.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[hotwired007]

we've gone and bought solid plastic chairs - the indistructable ones from espo - they last ages and are fairly cheap...

[soveryapt]

I ordered some of these ... NP Swivel Chairs | Classroom Chairs ... for a school I worked in and we have similar at the school I'm at now. Although they don't have the full adjustable backs, they have the height adjustment which is probably a requirement under HSE, that or individual adjustable height desks .. I know which is cheaper there! lol ..

 

EDIT: I'd recommend to get the castor option as moving the chairs about without is a pain, especially when sitting down yourself. The sliders just dig in and it's hard to get the chair to a desirable distance from the desk ..

Edited July 8, 2010 by soveryapt

[dhicks]

We are having two rooms kittted out in ther summer and was asked what the current state of play is with using normal classroom chairs instead of computer chairs.

 

By "computer chairs" I assume you mean a swivel chairs on castors. We have swivel chairs in our ICT room, over the past couple of years they've simply fallen apart, mainly to be replaced by plastic school bucket-style seats. Last time I checked, workplace health and safety regulations didn't apply to school pupils - you are free to sit them on whatever you like. I'd be inclined to try decent stools, as generally used in science labs - cheaper than swivel chairs and should be about the right height.

 

--

David Hicks

[Guest coquet636]

Thanks for the replies, as aptproductions says there is probably legislation for adjustable and this is what i need to convince the head to get them.

[MYK-IT]

For the past 5 years we have been using medium back operator chairs with castors manufacturered by Tract.

 

They work out approx £55 each with a high performance Xtreme Plus fabric (designed for call centres) and a 5 year warranty. For us, they have proved to be more than adequate for the job and are very good value for money. We've just had our first ever Tract chair repaired today and it has been in use for just under 5 years!

 

Previously we used to purchase cheap (£25-30) chairs and we were lucky if they lasted a year!

 

The recommended retail price of the Tract chairs (with the Xtreme Plus fabric) is £160 but we use Jenkinsons Office Supplies - the first choice for all your office needs - Home

 

Hope this helps

Edited July 8, 2010 by MYK-IT

[enjay]

DSE regulations don't apply to school children, but you could argue you still have a moral obligation to give them something decent.

 

The chairs we use are on 5-point bases, the backs are height-adjustable (but no-one bothers), the seats are technically height-adjustable but we have them screwed up so tight you can't release them without tools (and even then it can be a struggle!).

 

We had a brief spell with chairs on wheels, and they just weren't up to the rigours of general use and died within the year; if your students would be inclined to hold chariot races, they'll last even less time! You can get some where the wheels lock when someone is sat on them, but you would have to pay for those.

Edited July 9, 2010 by enjay
Clarity

[witch]

We used to have adjustable chairs but they just broke so now we have tall plastic chairs with backs. They've worked out really well.

[soveryapt]

Becta Schools - Leadership and management - Health and safety - How to ensure the safe use of ICT in schools

 

Becta's advice ..

[Sylv3r]

I ordered some of these ... NP Swivel Chairs | Classroom Chairs ... for a school I worked in and we have similar at the school I'm at now. Although they don't have the full adjustable backs, they have the height adjustment which is probably a requirement under HSE, that or individual adjustable height desks .. I know which is cheaper there! lol ..

 

EDIT: I'd recommend to get the castor option as moving the chairs about without is a pain, especially when sitting down yourself. The sliders just dig in and it's hard to get the chair to a desirable distance from the desk ..

 

We dont use the same model, but the ones we have are basically the same. No problems what so ever with them.

[jsnetman]

HSE regulations don't apply to school children

 

Yes it does, although there is no mention anywhere in HSE regulations about schools and young people the regulations are generic covering all people young or old in any establishment. I have had this argument many times with my senior managers, they claiming that pupils don't spend more than 1 hour in front of a computer in any one period, my argument being they could be spending 5 hours and sometimes more each day at a computer. However they still buy non adjustable chairs, they are cheaper and last longer. I gave up eventually.

[Guest theeldergeek]

Thanks for the replies, as aptproductions says there is probably legislation for adjustable and this is what i need to convince the head to get them.

 

Not sure how valid this now is, given the current political climate?

Becta Schools - Leadership and management - Health and safety - How to work safely with ICT

 

There is one specific bullet point :

 

"Seating should be height-adjustable so that monitors and keyboards are correctly positioned and pupils do not have to look up or down at the monitor for prolonged periods."

[BTCC_Fan]

We have some of the adjustible bucket chairs in some suites which seem more resistant.

 

In some other suites we managed to get normal computer chairs either free or cheap from an office clearout.

[Guest theeldergeek]

HSE regulations don't apply to school children

 

Health and Safety doesn't apply to school children? Are you sure? DSE regulations don't, but surely health and safety does?

[jsnetman]

Health and Safety doesn't apply to school children

 

If it does not apply to children why when one of our pupils got the tip of their finger chopped of in technology was there a full investigation by HSE, and it happened recently. HSE covers all people in puplic institutions and work places.

[enjay]

Let me clarify what I said, as my comments have been taken out of context somewhat. The school obviously has H&S responsibilities, however some of the requirements - including those governing computer furniture - only apply to employees, and pupils aren't employees. Or certainly, that's how it was last time we looked at chairs in the IT Suites, things may have changed now.

[jsnetman]

There is a technical myth which says school children are not covered. The HSE regulation states anyone using computer equipment for more than one hour. most pupils lessons are 1 hour so everyone mostly assumes they don't need risk assessment. But we are seeing double lessons, we will soon be having a sports diploma course which is block booked for 2 days (they write up their assignments using computers) so pupils will and have already been using computers for more than one hour.

[enjay]

Not a myth, but fact:

 

Q5. Do the DSE regulations apply to children and students?

 

Answer: No. These regulations only place duties on employers in respect of employees (or self-employed persons working in the employer’s undertaking). However, employers have more general duties under other legislation such as the Health and Safety at Work Act etc 1974 which require work activities to be undertaken in a way that does not create risks to others (such as children or the public).

 

Source: Display Screen Equipment - Frequently asked questions

 

So, as long as the non-height adjustable chairs aren't posing a risk, they're okay. Limited use of them would be one way of minimising this risk.

 

(We should note, however, that pupils can spend several hours a day at a computer, so we have some obligation to ensure appropriate chairs are used.)

[Guest theeldergeek]

Let me clarify what I said, as my comments have been taken out of context somewhat. The school obviously has H&S responsibilities, however some of the requirements - including those governing computer furniture - only apply to employees, and pupils aren't employees. Or certainly, that's how it was last time we looked at chairs in the IT Suites, things may have changed now.

 

It's DSE regulations that don't apply to students, and as I understand it, this includes workstation furniture (furniture appears on the checklist of items covered) but I think H&S is being confused with DSE.

 

Students are not entitled to 'specialist' equipment at a workstation under DSE, i.e. height adjustable seating under DSE but may be covered under H&S, i.e. special requirements.

Edited July 9, 2010 by theeldergeek

[enjay]

Exactly, Eldergeek. The DSE (Display Screen Equipment) regulations are provided by the HSE (Health & Safety Executive) but are different to the Health & Safety At Work Act, and other such regulations also provided by the HSE. The Healthy & Safety Act applies to children, Display Screen Equipment regulations do not.

 

Of course, the fact students are not entitled to such equipment doesn't mean we shouldn't provide it anyway.

[soveryapt]

I'm sure it is actually up to a school (under the DDA) to provide equipment for children required and there are pots of funding, so if a child does require specialist equipment due to a disability or such, it is up to the school to provide such equipment, or assist in the provision of such equipment.

 

Personally, I feel that a school should ensure they do all they can to ensure the comfort and safety of young people in their care, which includes providing at least height adjustable chairs for a computer (or indeed science / art etc) lab and if a school doesn't, then they are breaking their duty of care to these young people. It might only be for timetabled lessons of 40/50mins, but even so, we should do what we can to reduce the strain on their eyes / necks etc.

[enjay]

providing at least height adjustable chairs for a computer (or indeed science / art etc) lab and if a school doesn't, then they are breaking their duty of care to these young people.

 

Just to throw a curly one in, why does this duty of care only apply to "labs"? Kids spend far longer sat at regular desks/tables where the chair may be an inappropriate height...

[soveryapt]

Just to throw a curly one in, why does this duty of care only apply to "labs"? Kids spend far longer sat at regular desks/tables where the chair may be an inappropriate height...

 

It doesn't .. it's just that desks normally are the right height for chairs ..

 

All pupils should be accommodated for in whatever setting they are .. so it they need desk raisers to allow them to sit comfortably at a desk, or if they need a lower desk due to being shorter etc, it should all be put in place ..

 

It's a BIG bug bear of mine that all people should be accommodated and schools / employers should provide the right equipment for people that essentially will put all people as "equals" (I hate using words like that as well as people with disabilities are equal .. I used to work for a national organisation promoting rights and advice for disabled people and carers of such etc) ..

Edited July 9, 2010 by soveryapt

[enjay]

It doesn't .. it's just that desks normally are the right height for chairs ..

 

Surely that depends on whether the person on the chair is a Year 7 girl or a Year 13 boy, one chair can't be the right height for both of them. Maybe every room should have height-adjustable furniture...

[soveryapt]

Surely that depends on whether the person on the chair is a Year 7 girl or a Year 13 boy, one chair can't be the right height for both of them. Maybe every room should have height-adjustable furniture...

 

Put simply, in an ideal world, yes ..