How many CALS do we need for our Terminal Server?

[mavhc]

if you have 2 servers, you only need one set of device CALs

 

Fair enough, I went the Install Linux route anyway, 100s of hours saved by not having to type in product keys, track licences, read EULAs. And on top of that it's free, weird.

 

So, has any school ever been fined? And how much?

[dhicks]

(Well, more specifically, they'll get a temporary token which when it expires will lead to them being turned away.)

 

I seem to remember temporary Terminal Services tokens last something like 90 days, which isn't bad if you're trying to get set up over the summer break and don't want to pay until people come back and actually start using things. I think you can move the server licenses every 120 days or something, too.

 

• A remote desktop CAL for each user who could potentially connect.
  
• A windows cal for each device connecting.
  
• A windows server license per terminal server.
  
• A copy of the terminal services licensing software installed on your network.
  
• An SQL CAL for each user who could potentially connect (but only if you are using a full version of SQL server and aren't using a processor license).
  
• Each machine which is connecting to the terminal server to have a license for office.
  

 

Thanks, handy checklist. We don't have a school-wide schools agreement, but I think it would wind up cheaper for us to have one just to cover the SIMS server - you don't really get a choice but to keep upgrading how SIMS tells you to, so we might as well assume we'll be upgrading again in a couple of years time.

 

--

David Hicks

[farquea]

 

So in short you need:

 

• A remote desktop CAL for each user who could potentially connect.
  
• A windows cal for each device connecting.
  
• A windows server license per terminal server.
  
• A copy of the terminal services licensing software installed on your network.
  
• An SQL CAL for each user who could potentially connect (but only if you are using a full version of SQL server and aren't using a processor license).
  
• Each machine which is connecting to the terminal server to have a license for office.
  

 

When you say a windows CAL for each device connecting, you mean just a windows license? and the same for a server license too?

So really, in conclusion i need "a remote desktop CAL for each user who could potentially connect" for every member of staff it looks like.

So now the next question, how much are we usually talking for user CALS as i'd need about 50 i reckon. Is it a one off cost? If i buy a CAL for Mr Teacher1 who then leaves in a few weeks, and Mr New Teacher starts at the school, can they use the Teacher1's CAL or do i then need a new one for the new teacher?

 

Sheesh mavhc isnt wrong, this could potentially be stupidly confusing!

[localzuk]

No, I mean a Windows Server CAL (Windows Server 2008 R2: Frequently Asked Questions about Licensing)

 

The server license is the license for running the Server 2003 (or whatever edition) you are running. The CALs (so long as you use device CALs) are for every device that connects to any windows server in your school. So if you have 5 servers and 350 connecting devices (50 of which are devices used by staff to connect remotely), you would need 350 device CALs.

 

Regarding your last question, if your teacher leaves, then his license is freed up and that license will then be available to another user.

 

Regarding costs, do you use a Microsoft Schools Agreement?

[farquea]

No, I mean a Windows Server CAL (Windows Server 2008 R2: Frequently Asked Questions about Licensing)

 

The server license is the license for running the Server 2003 (or whatever edition) you are running. The CALs (so long as you use device CALs) are for every device that connects to any windows server in your school. So if you have 5 servers and 350 connecting devices (50 of which are devices used by staff to connect remotely), you would need 350 device CALs.

 

Regarding your last question, if your teacher leaves, then his license is freed up and that license will then be available to another user.

 

Regarding costs, do you use a Microsoft Schools Agreement?

 

Im really getting confused now. i have 1 server that 50 people can connect to. each device they use has a windows license, office license etc. The server has a server 2k3 license. I thought i just need 50 user cals but your saying i also need device cals?

 

I dont actually know if we use Microsoft Schools Agreement here, any easy way of finding out?

[farquea]

No, I mean a Windows Server CAL (Windows Server 2008 R2: Frequently Asked Questions about Licensing)

 

 

Reading that i just spotted "up to two users or devices may access the server software only for server administration purposes, without requiring either a RDS CAL or Windows Server CAL."

 

We have 4 members of ICT staff who rdp onto servers here, so therefore we are breaking the rules if we dont have 2 additional RDS CALs??

 

**bangs head against desk**

[grdrager]

Work at home rights may save you quite a bit here. If you're under a School Agreement, I think you are covered assuming you have licensed the primary work machine for all applicable CALS. If you've just done Select or Open, you at least have Office covered.

 

So in short you need:

 

A remote desktop CAL for each user who could potentially connect.

A windows cal for each device connecting.

A windows server license per terminal server.

A copy of the terminal services licensing software installed on your network.

An SQL CAL for each user who could potentially connect (but only if you are using a full version of SQL server and aren't using a processor license).

Each machine which is connecting to the terminal server to have a license for office.

 

From Work at Home licenses for Microsoft Academic Volume Licensing Customers

 

Open License for Academic, Select License for Academic, and Select Plus for Academic Work at Home licenses

For each copy of Microsoft Office you license, the primary user of the computer on or from which the product is run may also run a second copy from either a laptop or desktop computer that he or she owns or leases. The software may be used only for work-related purposes and only during the term of the agreement (including any renewals). These Work at Home licenses do not apply to students unless the student is also an employee.

 

Campus Agreement and School Agreement Work at Home licenses

Work at Home licenses for Campus Agreement and School Agreement customers are available for all application, system, and CAL products at no extra cost. These limited rights permit using licensed products on a personally owned computer for work-related purposes only. You can choose to extend these rights to your faculty and staff members only for licensed products for which you have institutional licenses through your Campus or School Agreement.

[DMcCoy]

I prefer to use the Home Use Programme (HUP) as part of software assurance instead. A small fee for staff (£8.95) but they can use it for non work stuff and the agreement is directly between MS and themselves (no need to provide keys and chase for removal if they leave).

[grdrager]

I prefer to use the Home Use Programme (HUP) as part of software assurance instead. A small fee for staff (£8.95) but they can use it for non work stuff and the agreement is directly between MS and themselves (no need to provide keys and chase for removal if they leave).

 

If actually distributing Office to staff, I would agree that HUP is a great option.

 

If staff WAH rights were only exercised through remote access to a TS hosting Office, you would mitigate the distribution/key problems and would be more or less sure it's work related use.

[Robbocop]

Microsoft CALs are never "concurrent" in the usual sense of the word. You always have to buy either a User CAL per actual named user, or a Device CAL per computing device you want to be able to access from. Either method works fine, and it's a question of adding up all the possible devices you want to access SIMS from, and then all the members of staff who would need to access it, and picking the smallest one! For example, if you've got 50 members of staff needing access, AND those people might want to access from a desktop machine in school or a laptop at home, it's probably cheapest to buy 50 user CALs for those people. If your 50 users access SIMS from a laptop EACH, ie 50 users, 50 laptops, it makes no difference. If the 50 users share computers and access SIMs from one of only 20 classroom machines, then you'd only need 20 Device CALs.

As pointed out above, if someone accesses Office running in TS, it still counts as a running instance of Office, and therefore still needs an Office licence.

[mpe]

Just had a check and yes i did install Office onto it. Thought i hadnt. So what does that mean, i need to buy yet more licenses? If so i imagine i could just put openoffice onto it instead?

 

It depends exactly what SIMS needs MS Office for. Don't expect any help from Capita in finding this out though

[mpe]

The whole idea of CALs is evil anyway, and stupidly complex, like all of MS's licensing.

Plenty of licencing schemes are decidedly "iffy". e.g. Novell's per connection system with Netware. At leats that was fairly simple compared with some of the schemes we have now.

 

You'd probably save money not wasting 100s of hours reading the licences and trying to be compliant than they'd fine you if they ever bothered to check. To make sure you're really compliant you'd have to hire a lawyer to read it all for you anyway.

A lawyer would also need to understand these both in terms of the "law of the land" and how these all interact. Which could get very expensive even to answer the question of which parts actually ment anything at all.

On what statute or case law is the idea of CALs even based?

 

Or install linux.

 

Or indeed anything without complex useage conditions. Whilst there might be such proprietary software, this comes as standard with Open Source Software.

Since open source licencing is concerned with copying and distribution as actually defined by copyright law.

Rather than clever tricks to pervert "copyright" into "useright". Such trickery underpinning EULAs, DRM.

[mpe]

That's why the professional thing to do is to contact a reseller, such as pugh, who DO understand that sort of thing.

Actually the kind of people you need to contact are lawyers. Even if resellers are qualified to give legal advice they are hardly unbiassed parties.

 

You're acting on behalf of your employer not yourself, so picking and choosing which regulations to follow could leave you on a very sticky wicket.

Ironically big companies, especially ones which operate in more than one country, like to do all sorts of picking and choosing what regulations they follow. Even to the point of claiming that a customer in country A is somehow subject to the laws in country B.

[mpe]

Remind me, why do people switch to FLOSS again?

 

As well as being reluctant to switch from something with simple requirements (especially if you are not supplying software to other "people").

 

To one which has highly complex requirements; is possible to get very different answers by asking different "experts" (even asking the same "expert" more than once) and really requires a lawyer to find out which requirements actually are requirments and which are requests.

 

It's also interesting how many EULAs try to ignore the concept of a "corporate person" on the part of the user at the same time accepting the vendor/supplier as such.

 

"Free of EULAs" is something potentially very positive.