What would you do?

[Dos_Box]

Now there is an idea for an app. A small internet monitor that tells the teacher just what sites are being viewed in their classroom and logs them. Any game sites usually stick out like sore thumbs, and these sites can then be forwarded to the NM for blocking at a later time.

[GrumbleDook]

This is going to sound very high and mighty but who on earth gives you the right to decide what goes on in the classroom?

 

Ok ... now the provocative stuff is over, I have to say I feel for you ... most of us have been there and had the same frustration. My recommendation is that you first have a word with the teacher and their head of dept, then take it via your line manager to SLT/SMT and ask them for clear guidance of what to do and where it fits into the school discipline policy. Wrap it up with things like, "I will not ban or unlock any site with authorisation from the relevant member of SLT, as I do not want to risk the education or safeguarding of students" ...

 

It is not a technology thing ... it is classroom management and you can support and help it, but not control it. If you were meant to be doing that you would be on a teacher's contract.

[tech_guy]

If it's really bad then we just send a load of screenshots to the HT. Most staff will deal with the students themselves but if it looks like lack of supervision we always report it.

[penfold]

Snip

The problem boils down to two things classroom management and student behavior.

 

I have been down the route of reporting members of staff and it doesn't change a thing, a day or two later the same thing happens again so I don't bother with that anymore.

 

Snip

 

I think this kind of summs up all our feelings? If your in a school where banning will make an impact then do it, but it really is a classroom management issue. If like a lot of us, you have blocked, banned and highlighted incidents in the past only to have them re-occur or over-ruled then you tend to do it less and less. Just make sure things are documented so no one can try and shift the blame onto you.

[penfold]

Snip/

Wrap it up with things like, "I will not ban or unlock any site with authorisation from the relevant member of SLT, as I do not want to risk the education or safeguarding of students" ...

 

/Snip/

Oh and I also made sure that I wouldn't be blocking websites without an email so I had a paper trail of who requested what blocked/unblocked. It was suprising that so many staff complained about websites getting through the filters, but virtually no one bothered to email me.

[broc]

This is going to sound very high and mighty but who on earth gives you the right to decide what goes on in the classroom?

 

OK, I will rise to the Troll-bait....

 

If a student is about to stick his fingers into a live power socket, or strike another child with a baseball bat should I intervene?

 

If a student is accessing porn via the internet do I intervene?

 

If a student is accessing Facebook via a proxy, knowing full well that the school AUP prohibits it and the LA are blocking Facebook, do I intervene?

 

If a student is downloading copyright protected music onto the school file server, do I intervene?

 

It is never black & white, is it?

[danrhodes]

It is not a technology thing ... it is classroom management and you can support and help it, but not control it. If you were meant to be doing that you would be on a teacher's contract.

 

Agreed GrumbleDook it can be a classroom management problem, but In quite a few of schools blocking sites does have an impact as students will only spend so long looking for game sites and if they find that the first 20 they come accross are blocked they will probalby give up and do work!?

 

D

[solitaire89]

That's why I suggested blocking without saying anything. You'd only block the sites at some other point, why not just do it there and then... Obviously if the "treasures" don't take the hint and cause damage, then it's a different matter. I think that as staff we do have a certain amount of responsibility for the behaviour of the kids. If something can be done with no fuss (such as sticking a childproof stop in the electricity socket, to take the previous example given), then get on and do it!

[bossman]

@Broc:

 

I used to think along the same lines until my line manager and myself had a safeguarding meeting and what was suggested to me was by all means monitor the internet access and log all access but it is the Teachers responsibility for classroom management and so we follow this advice to the letter.

 

When we are asked by a Teacher to create a report due to a students misuse of the internet then we produce a report which is then dealt with by SLT(Senior Leadership Team) and PLO (Pupil link office) this can result in the student being banned from using the ICT facilities for a period of one week or 2 day exclusion if it relates to things like bullying or trying to circumnavigate the internet security system (Proxy).

 

This has worked very well as our Teachers are regularly assessed on their teaching skills and when they use ICT facilities the lack of classroom management can be brought up if the students are on games and not committed to the work in hand.

 

So it is a double edged sword to which the Teachers require control of their classroom which I feel they are entitled to and it is not in my remit to tell them which sites have to be blocked.

[AngryITGuy]

Agreed GrumbleDook it can be a classroom management problem, but In quite a few of schools blocking sites does have an impact as students will only spend so long looking for game sites and if they find that the first 20 they come accross are blocked they will probalby give up and do work!?

 

D

 

Give up after only checking 20!!!

 

Students at your place are lightweights when I first started here it wasn't uncommon to see kids spend an entire lesson trying to find game sites and usually with out consequence.

[danrhodes]

Give up after only checking 20!!!

 

Students at your place are lightweights when I first started here it wasn't uncommon to see kids spend an entire lesson trying to find game sites and usually with out consequence.

 

Ha Ha we must have lazy pupils! :-)

[GrumbleDook]

Damn you for responding ... I suppose I must rise in return ;-)

 

OK, I will rise to the Troll-bait....

 

If a student is about to stick his fingers into a live power socket, or strike another child with a baseball bat should I intervene?

 

H&S and laws on common assault would mean you could be negligent *not* to deal with this (assault gets a bit interesting as you should report it but might opt not to intervene due to protection of yourself ... this is before we get into the Children's Act).

 

If a student is accessing porn via the internet do I intervene?

 

One person's porn is another person's art. If we are talking about materials which are possibly covered under the obscene publications act then you may take action to prevent distribution (eg if they are printing off or moving the screen round to show others) but I would treat it the same way I would if they were passing round a porno mag.

 

If a student is accessing Facebook via a proxy, knowing full well that the school AUP prohibits it and the LA are blocking Facebook, do I intervene?

 

Discipline procedures ... the same way if a student is bringing in alcohol to drink (no idea who purchased it) in spite of the school rules making a stance on drink and drugs.

 

If a student is downloading copyright protected music onto the school file server, do I intervene?

 

By intervene ... do you mean go and see the music teacher and find out whether they are saying it is ok for kids to do this, followed by then educating said teacher that it is not suitable, then taking to SLT if they continue to insist on doing it and finally getting SLT to sign a document saying that they have instructed you to allow this to happen, followed by talking to your union about constructive dismissal?

 

It is never black & white, is it?

 

No ... it is often red, or green, or purple, or cyan, or puce, or olive, or magenta, or gold ... the key is that making choices about "just block it" might work in the short term, but to work in the long term has to be part of the whole school ethos. I've worked in a school which promotes the attitude of 'work until the last moment' with the kids ... study leave being interspersed with lessons prior to exams for 'focused revision' ... strangely enough they are consistently in the top 10 schools in the country.

 

Just thinking of the wider picture ... blocking the sites will cause the problems you have already said ... risk of damage to kit, forcing them to be more inventive in bypassing your restrictions, etc ... but it could also cause problems where the kids get angry with you (ie the system blocking things) and force a trigger point which the classroom teacher is not aware of ... which means that the first they might see is a kid going off on one. The teacher might be telling a kid off for not paying attention thinking that this is the first time the kids has had intervention of any sort, but in reality it could be that the kid has had the internet blocked, possibly even had messages appear on the screen telling them off ... and the class teacher knows nothing about it. The teacher may in turn over-react and it all gets out of control.

 

So ... your blocking of a games site is not that back and white.

[broc]

Funnily enough, I started the thread because I was musing over these very points, especially with BSF getting closer every day. I think we are agreed there is no single answer.

 

Some staff ask us to help them maintain control by keeping a close watch on some of their students in their lessons because they are known troublemakers; in these situations our intervention enables staff to get on with teaching the students who want to learn.

 

I fully accept the point that unsolicited intervention has its risks & may be undesirable at times.....

[SteveBentley]

This is going to sound very high and mighty but who on earth gives you the right to decide what goes on in the classroom?

 

I don't think he is trying to decide, it's already been decided and documented that the playing of games is something that shouldn't go on.

 

The school AUP clearly defines playing games as misuse....

 

The difficulty is how this is enforced and by whom.

[GrumbleDook]

The problem is that it is not just games where you get the problem ... often this is just a symptom of a larger issue and it gets bogged down in politics, responsibilities and accountability.

 

I frequently use a real world example of an argument between two teachers which had support staff stuck in the middle. A student is caught, by a science teacher, playing maths based games during a lesson because they were bored (having completed all the exercises in a top set and got told to get on with other work). The website was dutifully blocked on the request of the teacher (not checked by the support team, just cut and paste from the email into the blacklist) and the student banned for a week from the internet.

 

Imagine the discussion the next day when a maths class (top set again, including some of the same students) could not access a site they are using for an inter-school competition as it is blocked as games. After much to-ing and fro-ing of students to the support team the website is added to the whitelist ... but the star pupil cannot take part as they have a week long ban from the internet and they are scared to use someone else's account in case it gets extended. The Maths teacher makes a complaint to their HoD ... who in turns complains to a member of SLT ... who gets all frustrated with the network manager (who hasn't actually done any of this work btw ... it was his team who did it) who then spends an afternoon trying to find out what went wrong.

 

The next day there are arguments and recriminations everywhere with science and maths staff are in a huff, the ICT teachers are asking why any other department has they right to stop internet access for the students when it is *their* right to do that ... and the support team are caught in the middle of it all.

 

Schools that deal with it well have setups similar to that which Bossman has explained. We can take it back to examples of change management, about SLT buy-in with technology and consistent approach to discipline across the school.

[elsiegee40]

The short answer from to the original question is leave the kids to get on with it and shut down the teacher's PC using the monitoring software... There'll be a response!

[webman]

By intervening, there is always the risk that the member of staff supposedly responsible for the students may feel undermined by your actions. (the carrot and stick "I said they could go on games once they finished their work" mindset)

[broc]

By intervening, there is always the risk that the member of staff supposedly responsible for the students may feel undermined by your actions. (the carrot and stick "I said they could go on games once they finished their work" mindset)

I fully agree, however in this case I had observed the students from the very beginning of the lesson so it seemed pretty clear to me the students had been given freedom to access whatever they wished at the start of the lesson. This is despite staff & students supposedly being aware of the AUP; in fact the students have to agree to abide by the rules by clicking 'yes' on a popup window as they log on .....

[webman]

Yes, I understand that - even so, that may have been what the teacher wanted them to do. To make the kids be quiet, to give the teacher time to do marking/planning, book their holiday or fall asleep. But if we were to react in some way to that specific lesson and prevent the kids doing what ever they were - I'm guessing a high percentage would take it personally.

[Rydra]

-If you come across a student doing something they shouldn't inform the teacher at the time of who, and what they were doing. it may be that they did not notice, or the student was in a position that they could switch before a teacher noticed what they were doing. I had a timetable of all ICT lessons, so I knew who was teaching where, and what subject.

Let the teacher know and deal with it, it's their class and their lesson. You are there for support, so support them as they require.

 

On finding the little darling doing what they shouldn't, I would normally take screenshots and check logs, then phone the teacher. For serious problems, like bypassing security, vandalism, or inappropriate material, the NM would go to the classroom directly and speak to the child with the teacher, and make them aware of the situation (and usually a small amount of humiliation by being hauled out of a class by "The IT Guy".

 

If the site is obviously a games site (a number i've seen recently are not even in english, which is generally a good giveaway when they are in an IT lesson studying databases, as can be seen by the few who ARE working....) then they can simply be added to the blocklist during the process above, and inform the teacher that it is being done.

 

If you notice a reoccuring trend within a particular room, teacher, or specific class, then gather the logs, and use the line management to report this.

Although it is not your job to "Police the teachers", it is sometimes the classes where students get away with the most that have the least reports filed, so management may not be aware of there being a problem. And the primary concern for anyone within the school is the education of students, and anything affecting that should be reported accordingly.

[timbo343]

The best one i have heard, is that schools should be less retrictive on the filtering and let the students decide if the content is suitable for them or not. I thought "what is the point of filtering?"

[CAM]

When there are a bunch of Year 11s in my bookable library classroom and I monitor the class, the teacher is often thankful that I have a word in her ear. I will typically say "Can I speak to the class a moment please?" then start pointing out the offenders and requesting a word with them.

 

You also have to put the games themselves into context. Learning games, no problem. iPlayer documentary, again no problem. But if they are watching Neighbours or playing something useless like a Sonic Flash ROM which breaches copywrite laws too, then you should intervene. The same with even innocent games that have come in an Excel sheet or going round on memory stick or other transfer methods. They are bringing in software that may contain malware, if I catch them with it then the software says goodbye from their inbox and/or home drive. It is part the duty of keeping the network secure.

 

And yes, I have seen SLT come in, catch Sixth Form watching soap operas when I am not looking at the monitoring screen in our school library and they have been hauled out for a good ticking off.

[Jiser]

Kiddies will always do it, will always find ways around the system. Its just fun catching them. One of the highlights of the job I had.

 

Sometimes its fun to take over and play for them.

 

Surely as a member of staff within your rights you should block the site, inform said teacher then move on to next job. When it was me I just blocked site and left it as that.

 

End of the day its your job as the I.T. Professional to find the site and block it. The teacher should in theory be monitoring but in the real world it doesn't happen and there are a lack of decent (cheap) solutions out there for classroom monitoring.

[maestromasada]

This is last week for year 11, isn't it? Shall we be merciful?

[danrhodes]

Shall we be merciful?

 

Merciful.....................NEVER!!!!!!

 

Night.

 

D