EduGeek in the TES With Your Comments.

[Dos_Box]

You can view the page at http://www.edugeek.net/content.php?r=136-EduGeek-in-the-TES-with-your-comments.

[featured_spectre]

A major inquiry?would that be aimed at the schools or the companies? Most of us here strive for the best deals we can get! It isn't our fault if some companies *try* to fleece us!

 

However that is a well written article, and you are right, it does just scratch the surface!

[PiqueABoo]

There's a problem? Quick, let's have an enquiry, preferably a very expensive one, that'll fix it for sure..

::screams::

 

I guess this is the full NAHT report: NAHT IT SURVEY REPORT. I found some of the quotes in there umm.. 'interesting'

[dwhyte85]

I thought schools went through strict auditing... I know we do, any large expenditure must go through 3 or more suppliers, in my case anything over £3K.

 

Even with an outsourced IT provider should a school be allowing sole suppliership of goods?

[leco]

There's nothing wrong with a single supplier, as long as the audit trail is there, to show that the school's procurement procedure has been followed and that best value is the result.

[dwhyte85]

Audit trail would ask for more than one quote to find the best quote? Do you mean if the outsourced IT get 3 quotes... or do you mean using one reseller is OK?

[leco]

I meant as long as three quotes were obtained. Don't know about outsourced IT as most of mine are in-house procurement.

[featured_spectre]

I have a dedicated section in my inbox for quotes, with subsections relating to what is needed. EG I asked Simon and 2 other companies for quotes on a server NIC, I received said quotes and they went into a folder labeled "server NIC - date required DDMMMYYYY" an that's how it is for ALL of my quotes. In the past we hae been audited a few times and this system has saved time for myself and auditors alike.

 

There should be a review of the system, and if schools have a need, there should be a nationally set guideline price at which 3 quotes are required (for us anything over £3000) and where 5 quotes are needed (anything over £25000 for us). That would be better IMHO. Also an audit of the whole school every 3-5 year wouldn't be bad as it ensures people are sticking to guidelines.

[localzuk]

Our system is 3 quotes for every purchase. Its a lot of work, but it saves us massive amounts of money. The 3 quotes get stapled to the order form, and notes made on the one we choose saying why (as it isn't always the cheapest supplier). Seems to do us well. I know some schools who just use the same supplier for everything and as such get fleeced on pricing. That is the practice that needs to stop.

[torledo]

A major inquiry?would that be aimed at the schools or the companies? Most of us here strive for the best deals we can get! It isn't our fault if some companies *try* to fleece us!

 

However that is a well written article, and you are right, it does just scratch the surface!

 

an enquiry ?

 

Nah. we're a week before a general election, an emergency budget 60 days from now and then a

3-year comprehensive spending review with education spending not being one of the sacred cows... might actually focus minds.

 

Not to mention a little thing called BSF which as it lumbers along is turning the whole IT procurement thing on it's head anyway... What was that someone said about best value and schools buying kit using the same company. LOL.

[PiqueABoo]

The difficulty with the several posts above is we're largely talking Primary and not just about standard-issue paper-clips i.e. it's not necessarily easy to decide on what will be "best value" for money if every quote proposes a different solution.

 

But even so that obvious kind of approach clearly doesn't happen sometimes and on blunt reflection I think the real story here may be that apparent supply and demand problem re. decent heads: I can think of several heads who are largely IT-illiterate, but they're intellectually sharp, inherently reasonable-to-good managers and are perfectly capable of shopping around, asking other schools, LAs etc., before they part with significant amounts of money. I suspect the schools we're worrying about here probably have the Peter Principle heads i.e. ones they had to settle for who are out of their depth. [Wish I could get a job I was not very good at on that kind of salary and then have people bending over backwards to help me do that job.]

 

So what's stopping the sharp folk from becoming heads?

Edited May 2, 2010 by PiqueABoo

[Dos_Box]

Perhaps a book on ICT for heads\bosses should be created? In it should be outlined:

 

What things are

What they do

What they look like

What they cost

What support costs and does for you, both on site and contract

Illustrations and pictures of everything

And rough price guides (to be amended yearly)

 

This actually is not as big a job as it sounds. We can releas this as a booklet or each subject area as a downloadable PDF. For instance, we can have a section on netbooks covering:

 

What they do, or do not do (hardware, OS wise)

What they are suitable for compared to laptops

What they hype will say compared to what they will actually be used for

Rough prices and warranty info

 

This can also be done for laptops, desktps and servers etc. We can also do sections on wireless, LAN and other netwrokign technologies, all done in a Dummies type format, and intended fro heads to be able to refer to it and get a quick overview fo the issue in hand, for instance if a network manager is screamign for a new server becasue the old one is about to die, the server document will outline just how important servers are, and really emphesise the point.

Is this a good idea?

[featured_spectre]

sounds good to me DB, however the sheer amount of hardware available would not make it too feasible?

[Dos_Box]

We don't have to show make\model etc, just cover the basics as to what does what and what you would expect (roughly) to pay for low\mid\high producst in that catagory.

[EduTech]

Sounds Good to me also to be honest, as we have pointed out alot of the issues that were raised were mainly Primary Schools although some Secondary Schools have also been targeted the higher pecentage is with primary. Just pointing out what is genuine, the truths and what peole actual need in schools and what hardware they need to run the common software applications etc i think will be fine. amongest us we know what applications are used within schools so should be able to easily inform people at what specifications they should be asking for with maybe a rough cost and we could even point them to company sponsors of edugeek whom we know do not do any of the above which was pointed out in the article.

 

J

[garethedmondson]

In my school we have to get three quotes for anything above £1000. I mean everything.

 

However, with some computer software there is only one supplier so as long as we can prove this then that is fine.

 

Like a previous comment, I have sorted my inbox so that everything is there. I keep it in there until the Auditor arrives and signs it off. I then delete that folder.

 

Gareth

[SYNACK]

Sounds like a good idea for a section/bulletin type thing to be honest. Every six months or so doing out a sheet of hardware suitable for each type of work and about how much it should cost. I agree with the fact that it would need continuous updating as tech moves quite fast and any static information is going to be misleading unless it is clear when it was valid and how long it is likely to be valid for.

[GrumbleDook]

Personally I think looking at specs based on roles would be a better option. That way you have a spec, the length of warranty needed, etc and you can go to a range of suppliers with it and get the best price for the system you want, including any support requirements.

 

This would take a break down of software though ... looking at the range of software for education, servers and their roles, etc.

[featured_spectre]

Thats good thinking Grumbledook. I would prefer to see it based along application of hardware rather than brand specific hardware. Then post up guideline pricing - EG lowest brand price to highest brand price.

[Dos_Box]

One problem with regards to pricing machines regarding to spec is that it doesn't take into account the manufacturer and other considerations such as standard configuration, chipsets and such for imaging purposes. As an example a quick search of a well known online IT supplier brings up the following desktop machines prices.

 

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3610/desktopcosts.png

 

Notice that between some manufacturers there is a difference of over £100.00 for that same spec machine, but I know many people wouldn’t touch the cheaper one due to the brand. Once you start looking at laptops it becomes even more complex.

 

I think such a resource would be great but also due to the nature of hardware and prices it would need to be regularly updated to stay relevant.

 

This is where we start to over complicate things, which is what we want to avoid. What we want to do is to stop schools getting ripped off. If we simply state that, for example, laptops will cost:

 

Low range - £350 to £450

 

Mid range - £450 to £600

 

High range - £600+

 

A head who is reading this will know that if their supplier is to charge them £600 for a laptop that was asked for as a basic model, will know they are getting ripped off. Naturally we shall have the first couple of chapters\articles covering puchasing, warranties, support etc and how these will add to the cost and to factor these in, but as a quick guide, that is all they need to know. It is quick, it is dirty, but as long as it makes bosses stop, pause and question then so much the better.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Dos_Box

[PiqueABoo]

Cursed by a rusty security 'mindset', I first think the idea has merit and inevitably gravitate towards ways to break it.. sorry.

 

To begin there is this line in the report: all of these initiatives may be struggling for awareness among many heads. How would an Edugeek initiative overcome that very real difficulty?

 

Reasonable price ranges for computers are relatively easy but that is a fraction of the problem, not a central theme in the report which includes examples of 'rip-offs' concerning configuration and maintenance tasks, photocopiers, power points, building work etc. Focusing just on ICT, some areas are extremely difficult to pin down with any great accuracy e.g. what is a fair price for packaging some random s/w? There are plenty more where that came from and I genuinely think providing sufficient coverage of the necessary angles is quite a tricky job.

 

There is a risk that enumerating basic features and tasks that should be present might be taken as the sum-total of what any school needs from their support. Care required.

 

Primary, primary, primary! Many Secondary concepts do NOT fit.

 

Finally if you do pursue this then please devote at least some of it towards the school's expectations and responsibilities, and in particular towards what might be summarised as 'change management'. The very best of techs and thus the school's system can easily be undermined by frequent change and unreasonable requirements i.e. the kind of things that sometimes feature in one of those frustrated rants BtRD.

Edited May 4, 2010 by PiqueABoo

[Mr.Ben]

I think we also need 'When to replace things' in the booklet!

[GrumbleDook]

I think we also need 'When to replace things' in the booklet!

 

Hmmm ... not really ... I think it should be "how to plan when to replace things." It might sound like I am being picky but it really does vary from school to school. One school might choose to replace hardware which is out of warranty and running an 'old' OS, but another school might use the old boxes as thin clients or stick linux on it. Some schools might not want to do this as they have an existing scheme of work that works very well and moving to different OS and apps could actually be more costly on teacher time than to just cough up for fresher kit. It has to be planned around the curriculum and not the kit.

[broc]

The opportunity to take advantage of schools is even greater where a 'specialist' service is being provided; simple things like power sockets, network points have been mentioned before, but what about something obvious like cleaning a filter in a projector hung from a sports-hall or assembly hall ceiling? Or how about installing 'all in one' IWB systems or equipment that has to be fixed to the building structure safely?

 

Should the school be doing it? Does the school have staff trained to work at height? Does it have the necessary ladders & safety equipment? Or does it bring in a contractor & risk being ripped off?

[GrumbleDook]

As with all things like that, if you bring in a contractor you get quotes and choose the best option. There is a difficult balance though ... for some schools they may contract their support out to people who will also do AV installs. That is fine, but you just need to periodically test the market for installation prices. When you get a quote from an installer you should always have a breakdown of costs and you might want to challenge any single cost item, eg installing power sockets in the ceiling for the projector. If you are getting a quote for the hardware *&* installation then also get some test quotes on the hardware on its own. You may be getting the best deal in the world on installation costs but be paying a premium mark-up on the hardware. The many decent companies out there doing tech support for schools will give you the breakdown as well as the option to source the hardware yourself.

 

Always remember though within this cost saving exercise that the time of the person in the school who is managing this and making decisions needs to be taken into account. That is also a cost.