Pet hates

[creese]

Just been reminded of another annoyance by a post in the Pedants thread.

 

'I went over it with a fine tooth-comb'. It's a toothbrush! or a fine-toothed comb as in a comb with fine teeth.

[witch]

Then there is the corruption of phrases and sayings:

 

People say 'bog standard' when it is 'bulk standard'

 

Or 'off my own back' when it was 'off my own bat' originally

[creese]

Then there is the corruption of phrases and sayings:

 

People say 'bog standard' when it is 'bulk standard'

 

That one I have never heard. Bog meaning a marshy area or BOG meaning British or German standard are the only explainations I have heard. Apart from it being derived from 'box' as in 'straight out of the box'.

[witch]

This is what I was taught:

 

'The commercial meaning was that goods purchased in bulk should by law correspond with the standard specified in the contract or with the agreed standard in a previously agreed sample or description ie. be of 'bulk standard' namely that the bulk would correspond with the agreed contract description or sample'

 

Which makes sense when you think of the context that we use the expression - to describe something basic, not fancy, quite straightforward, and the same as lots of others. Bog as in marshy area makes no sense at all.

 

Another one is: " you can't have your cake and eat it" Which is nonsense, because of course you can. The original expression was the other way around - in other words you can't eat your cake but still have it left

[kearton]

Seeing Kiwifruit in UK supermarkets labelled as "Kiwi"... aarrgghh! Edited March 25, 2010 by kearton

[creese]

This is what I was taught:

 

'The commercial meaning was that goods purchased in bulk should by law correspond with the standard specified in the contract or with the agreed standard in a previously agreed sample or description ie. be of 'bulk standard' namely that the bulk would correspond with the agreed contract description or sample'

 

Which makes sense when you think of the context that we use the expression - to describe something basic, not fancy, quite straightforward, and the same as lots of others. Bog as in marshy area makes no sense at all.

 

Another one is: " you can't have your cake and eat it" Which is nonsense, because of course you can. The original expression was the other way around - in other words you can't eat your cake but still have it left

 

I couldn't argue with the origin but 'bog' as in a marsh would make perfect sense in a number of ways. Two come easily to mind.

1. A bog is a low area. Low standard.

2. A Bog or WC would be a pretty basic building usually tacked onto a house or in the case of modern 'Long Drops' some way from the house. No expense spared to build them, not the more modern tiled bathroom.

 

As for the cake.... I'm not picking on you, honest.

 

Here's what Wiki (not Wicca) says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_one's_cake_and_eat_it_too

Edited March 25, 2010 by creese

[witch]

"The phrase's earliest recording is from 1546 as "wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?" "

 

From your article - earliest instance of saying - I rest my case.

 

As for 'bog standard' - it doesnt mean low standard at all, so your boggy marshy analogy doesnt really work. It means basic and no-frills

 

Don't get your bit about WC at all

Still, it is fun investigating words and their origins.

I read a lot of books about language and behaviour and the whole thing is fascinating

[creese]

 

Don't get your bit about WC at all

Still, it is fun investigating words and their origins.

I read a lot of books about language and behaviour and the whole thing is fascinating

 

Having been in the building trade at the start of my working life, I heard the saying used a lot. In those days people didn't have fancy toilets with tiles, carpets and frilly curtains. Instead they had 'bog standard' decoration, emulsioned or even whitewashed walls and ceilings.

 

We would go into a house ask what they wanted and be told 'just a bog standard decoration as it's being let'

 

I'll resist the urge to amend the last bit to read 'toilet.

 

The origin of words or phrases are great for debate. Most grow from work or sport and you can follow their path backwards. Occasionally you get those like bog standard which no one seems to have a definitive explaination for, until then I'll stick with mine because it makes sense to me, as your's does to you.

[Gatt]

To, Too & Two ...

 

A few Pet Hates I have with the OH

• "Potato Cake" insteasd of "Tattie Scone"
  
• She pronounces "Scone" as in "Phone" (I say it as in "Gone")
  
• "Caaake" - It only has one A!!
  
• Pronuncing Loch "Lock"
  
• Saying "Muffins" when she means a Bread Roll (a muffin to me has choc chips on it!)
  

A few Pet Hates the OH has with me :

• The first 2 of mine but in the reverese!
  
• " needs Ironed/Washed" - she always corrects it to "needs Ironing/Washing!" (and yes I know she is right!)#
  
• Apperntly I say "Sangwich" instead of "Sandwich"
  
• I never vac properly, and that my general untidyness
  

[witch]

YOURS, NOT YOUR'S !!!!!!!!!

:D:D

[witch]

[*]She pronounces "Scone" as in "Phone" (I say it as in "Gone")

[*]"Caaake" - It only has one A!!

[*]Pronuncing Loch "Lock"

These are just pronounciation and regional variation, aren't they?

 

[*]Saying "Muffins" when she means a Bread Roll (a muffin to me has choc chips on it!)

 

I believe that 'ye olde englishe' muffins were more like bread rolls and not cakes. The Americans still call them 'English Muffins'

One of the oldest English nursery rhymes is 'The Muffin Man'

[Gatt]

Ok I accept the regional thing - and the Loch / Tattie Scone doesn't bug me quite so much now BUT. the Pronunciation of Scone still does because she always corrects me on it!

 

As for muffins.. why are they always labelled in shops and on the packaging as "[bread] Rolls" then

 

 

Another pet hate is Lose / Loose

[creese]

A regional difference over a large distance (does that make sense.... any pedant??) is 'Dam' We think of this as the structure holding the water back, South Africans think of it as the water that is held back. i.e. 'I went for a swim in the dam today'

[Mako]

I believe that 'ye olde englishe' muffins were more like bread rolls and not cakes. The Americans still call them 'English Muffins'

One of the oldest English nursery rhymes is 'The Muffin Man'

 

Muffins are still bread buns, if depending where you're from. My mother and her family are all Lancastrian, whereas my father et al are from Yorkshire. I'm continually juggling my choice of dictionary to accommodate the correct slang and dialect, depending on who I'm talking to. I used to walk into shops in Oldham and ask for a 6 pack of muffins, as we all wanted sandwiches. Walk into the bakery here and ask for a pack of muffins, I get asked if I want chocolate chip or blueberry...

[crc-ict]

People who post on facebook changing i's for y;s - reali etc.

 

Also things like 2nyt etc. Really, really annoying! Does a couple of keystrokes really save that much

[creese]

Ok I accept the regional thing - and the Loch / Tattie Scone doesn't bug me quite so much now BUT. the Pronunciation of Scone still does because she always corrects me on it!

 

As for muffins.. why are they always labelled in shops and on the packaging as "[bread] Rolls" then

 

 

Another pet hate is Lose / Loose

 

I say scone as in gone but I always thought Muffin was a mule.

[witch]

AFAIK, English Muffins are yeast based like bread but usually cooked on a griddle rather than baked in an oven like ordinary bread.

So they are bread, but different

[Gatt]

I used to walk into shops in Oldham and ask for a 6 pack of muffins, as we all wanted sandwiches. Walk into the bakery here and ask for a pack of muffins, I get asked if I want chocolate chip or blueberry...

 

I ended up in the same boat when i first moved to Manchester.. walked into a shop and asked for "A Sausage Roll" - and got the pastry kind - instead of "A Roll & Sausage" I realised my mistake and quietly left with the Sausage Roll..

Think Muffin is more an Oldham / West Yorks thing as it is used regularly up here to refer to a Bread Roll.. As is a "Barm Cake" (Imagine my confuddled look the first time i encountered that one..!!)

[creese]

For those who never saw John Mill's sister Annette

 

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muffin_the_Mule]Muffin the Mule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[Pyroman]

It's not a bread roll at all!! It's a breadcake!

 

and a sausage roll does have pastry, a sausage buttie however...

[creese]

It's not a bread roll at all!! It's a breadcake!

 

and a sausage roll does have pastry, a sausage buttie however...

 

Isn't a sausage in a bread roll a hot dog?

[Pyroman]

Isn't a sausage in a bread roll a hot dog?

 

only if it's in a hot dog roll =D besides who only has 1 sausage in a sausage buttie?

[creese]

only if it's in a hot dog roll =D besides who only has 1 sausage in a sausage buttie?

 

Depends on the size of your sausage

[elsiegee40]

It's not a bread roll at all!! It's a breadcake!

 

Depends on where you're from. Bread cake in Yorkshire, Bap in the South West, etc

 

As for PE Shoes... Daps (Somerset), Plimsoles (Yorkshire)

 

I moved around a lot when I was young and seemed to have to learn an entire new vocabulary every time we moved!

[waldronm2000]

As for 'bog standard' - it doesnt mean low standard at all, so your boggy marshy analogy doesnt really work. It means basic and no-frills

 

I seem to recall Stephen Fry on QI suggesting that bog standard was a corruption of the term "Box Standard". The story was that in the pre-war era, toys such as Meccano were sold in two standard sets, known as Box Standard and Box Deluxe. He further suggested that the Box Deluxe still exists in a corrupted form in everyday English...