THIN CLIENT LICENSING

[pwaddington]

I currently have 335 pcs and was looking at getting a schools agreement to cover these pc OS and office. I also have sophos endpoint installed and i would have needed to get 335 licenses for antivirus as well

 

In the summer I plan to migrate 200 pc's to thin clients using terminal services but am unsure if i then need to licence these 200 pcs as they wont have an OS installed on them and will not require sophos as it will be installed on the server they are connecting to.

 

Could i just get the schools agreement to cover 135 pcs, sophos licenses to cover 135 pcs and then purchase terminal server cals for the 200 thin clients?

 

All terminal servers will also be licensed..

[cookie_monster]

The terminal server CAL will cover your thin clients so you won't need a Windows CAL for them. I assume that you won't be just converting PC's to thin clients but buying thin client devices.

[Ric_]

@pwaddington: You need to license all your access devices under the Schools Agreement and probably under your Sophos agreement too.

[FN-GM]

so you won't need a Windows CAL for them.

 

For thin clients you need a TS CAL and a Server CAL. Thats what i was told anyway.

[localzuk]

I went through this discussion a while back.

The outcome is:

 

You need licenses for each device. This license was a TS CAL, office license, server device cal, and a desktop OS license for us - as it looks at the total devices when using schools agreement. We asked a few licensing resellers, and they all came back with the same response.

[Soulfish]

If you're going to be using TS then license all devices using the MS VDI Premium suite. This includes the TS CAL but is actually cheaper to license than the TS CAL on it's own.

 

If you want to use VDI then you'll also need to license VECD for at least the Thin Client devices. Licensing for VDI Prem + VECD worked out at around £1/device/year on schools agreement. If you want to allow remote access don't forget to include the student CALs for VECD and VDI which work out at about another 50p/student/year.

 

Edit:

Of course you still need the server CALs, Office licenses etc that have been mentioned previously. The licensing I've mentioned is what you need to license to use TS/RDS and/or VDI.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Soulfish

[cookie_monster]

I went through this discussion a while back.

The outcome is:

 

You need licenses for each device. This license was a TS CAL, office license, server device cal, and a desktop OS license for us - as it looks at the total devices when using schools agreement. We asked a few licensing resellers, and they all came back with the same response.

 

 

 

You need a Windows OS licence even for devices incapable of running Windows like an Axel unit? That's not what I was told.

[localzuk]

You need a Windows OS licence even for devices incapable of running Windows like an Axel unit? That's not what I was told.

 

The devices we have here are HP thin clients and Samsung thin clients, this is what I asked each company and each one came back with the same response from Microsoft supposedly.

[Soulfish]

You need a Windows OS licence even for devices incapable of running Windows like an Axel unit? That's not what I was told.

 

Under a schools agreement you can only have 1 desktop count. Means that if you want to license CALs, Office and Windows but you have some thin clients you have to license them for Windows as well or purchase their licensing for Office etc separately

[pwaddington]

Thanks for all your replies and bigger thanks to microsoft for having me/us over a barrel!

[joe90bass]

It's my understanding (and experience!) that you need a CAL and a TS CAL for thin clients. With regard to Sophos, I tried only licensing our TS servers, but was told that we needed a licence for every Thin Client as well - I thought that would be the case, but it doesn't hurt to ask!!!

[cookie_monster]

I was under the impression (possibly mistaken) that the reason that MS came up with the TS CAL was to make up for the fact that a thin client wouldn't have a Windows licence so they would loose out, thus the invention of yet another unnecessary licence.

 

So let me get this straight before I ring our licence supplier. You need a Windows OS licence (even though you can't install it on the device, a Terminal Server CAL and also a Citrix CAL (if you use it) Good grief that’s like charging me road tax for using the bus.

 

 

We have WinCE devices and Linux devices but also the proprietry AXEL devices I can't see how they can get away with making you buy an OS licence for these

Edited March 15, 2010 by cookie_monster

[Soulfish]

I was under the impression (possibly mistaken) that the reason that MS came up with the TS CAL was to make up for the fact that a thin client wouldn't have a Windows licence so they would loose out, thus the invention of yet another unnecessary licence.

 

So let me get this straight before I ring our licence supplier. You need a Windows OS licence (even though you can't install it on the device, a Terminal Server CAL and also a Citrix CAL (if you use it) Good grief that’s like charging me road tax for using the bus.

 

As far as I'm aware you don't need a Windows OS license for a Thin Client. You do need a Windows Server CAL however, as well as the TS CAL.

 

The confusion may be coming from the schools agreement talk. Because a schools agreement is very rigid in it's licensing terms if you want to license 100 copies of Office through it and then you want to also license Windows you have to license 100 copies. You can't mix and match numbers, so with a schools agreement you tend to over license when it comes to thin clients (because of the server CALs, office licensing etc) and so the thin clients end up with windows licenses as well.

 

I hope that made some sense

[dhicks]

I went through this discussion a while back.

 

How much of a while back? I seem to remember (although I might have just imagined it) some headline about Microsoft changing the terms of it's Schools Agreement licensing so you didn't have to count every PC in the building "capable of running Windows" (including Linux boxes that didn't have anything to do with Windows). I can't remember any more details than that, although ti might just worth asking licesning providers again just incase something's changed in the last 6 months or so.

 

--

David Hicks

[EduTech]

When we spoke to MS we were told that it did not require an actual OS licence as there is a loophole that they are working on.

 

When doing your desktop count the way it is written is "physical" desktops, and as they aren't "physical" desktops they dont count

 

Might of changed now i would of thought as they said it would not be long, but thought i would mention it

 

James.

[cookie_monster]

As far as I'm aware you don't need a Windows OS license for a Thin Client. You do need a Windows Server CAL however, as well as the TS CAL.

 

The confusion may be coming from the schools agreement talk. Because a schools agreement is very rigid in it's licensing terms if you want to license 100 copies of Office through it and then you want to also license Windows you have to license 100 copies. You can't mix and match numbers, so with a schools agreement you tend to over license when it comes to thin clients (because of the server CALs, office licensing etc) and so the thin clients end up with windows licenses as well.

 

I hope that made some sense

 

 

 

Ok i'll see what they say. A TS CAL and a server access CAL I can deal with it's the OS CAL bit that I can't (staring thoughtfully accross the room at the Ubuntu play box)

[Ric_]

I think the confusion is that you are thinking of the desktop license being just for the Windows upgrade license. Under Schools Agreement, you purchase a desktop pack with core CALs (or Enterprise CALs) and this gives you the following:

* Windows OS upgrade license

* Office

* Your selected CAL pack - see http://www.microsoft.com/calsuites/en/us/products/default.aspx for details of what that includes

 

If you run 'Remote Desktop Services' you will also need to license for that.

 

So if you have a mix of thin and fat clients you simply add them all up and purchase that many desktop licenses and that many RDS CALs.

[Soulfish]

I think the confusion is that you are thinking of the desktop license being just for the Windows upgrade license. Under Schools Agreement, you purchase a desktop pack with core CALs (or Enterprise CALs) and this gives you the following:

* Windows OS upgrade license

* Office

* Your selected CAL pack - see http://www.microsoft.com/calsuites/en/us/products/default.aspx for details of what that includes

 

If you run 'Remote Desktop Services' you will also need to license for that.

 

So if you have a mix of thin and fat clients you simply add them all up and purchase that many desktop licenses and that many RDS CALs.

 

But don't get the RDS CALs get the VDI Premium pack license. VDI pack is about 0.50/device/year under schools agreement whereas the RDS CAL is about 2.50/device/year. But the VDI premium pack gives you the RDS CAL and a load of other bits.

[Willott]

We're going to be looking at the SESP licensing this year, which seems to be what Microsoft are trying to combat the issues people had with thin clients. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/education/schools/software-licensing/types-of-educational-licence/SESP-agreement/default.aspx. From what I understand, you can license bits of the school for bits of licensing (so only as many RDS CALs as needed for devices accessing TS, only as many Desktop licenses as required for fat clients).

 

However, there doesn't seem to be mention of licensing Office separately (which you'd probably need for machines accessing the TS). May be another option to ask your licensing supplier about.

[Ric_]

@Willott: I looked into SESP when I got my Schools Agreement and prices weren't really any different for what I needed... plus only a couple of resellers could offer it, reducing competition!

 

Speaking to Microsoft direct, I also discovered that they would prefer you to use a Schools Agreement over SESP (at least at the moment) so that you are entitled to other benefits.

 

I also believe that there's a push at the moment to get people away from SELECT onto Schools Agreement... your reseller can probably tell you more (Faith Warburton at Insight just happened to mention it to me during a conversation the other day).