Softlink Oliver

[localzuk]

Why is this piece of software built using 'Concordance'? Just why? Concordance is designed as a data repository for Legal documents (ie. court transcripts, depositions etc...), and not for a general relational database!

 

Add in the joy that Softlink has now released a new version built on SQL server, but we can't update to it yet, as it doesn't contain the functionality to integrate with Renaissance Place...

 

I'm just bewildered really. It isn't as if SQL is new or anything - it having been first introduced in 1974... Gah!

[ahuxham]

I thought the point/concepts of Concordance was a few of the following:

 

Language teaching

Language learning

Data mining

Language engineering

 

and obviously various other activities.

[localzuk]

As far as I'm aware, Concordance was designed for legal stuff, as I stated. It is now part of LexisNexis, the publishing company that specialises in Legal and related fields.

 

Litigation Document Management Software: Concordance | LexisNexis

[ahuxham]

As far as I'm aware, Concordance was designed for legal stuff, as I stated. It is now part of LexisNexis, the publishing company that specialises in Legal and related fields.

 

Litigation Document Management Software: Concordance | LexisNexis

 

As far as you were aware indeed. It may have been designed for that use, but its moved into pastures new. It's not just for legal stuff, its very hand for data-mining as well as language teaching.

 

Concordance isn't an entity assigned to a single task, its also a very good principal system other software can inherit.

 

Viagra was designed for a completely different purpose other than male impotency (I'm sure it was designed for head-aches), a prime example of something starting and than moulding into various other platforms

[matt40k]

It's an educational sector piece of software. Be lucky it's going\gone SQL. Alice is one of the better bits of software on the market.

[localzuk]

As far as you were aware indeed. It may have been designed for that use, but its moved into pastures new. It's not just for legal stuff, its very hand for data-mining as well as language teaching.

 

Concordance isn't an entity assigned to a single task, its also a very good principal system other software can inherit.

 

Viagra was designed for a completely different purpose other than male impotency (I'm sure it was designed for head-aches), a prime example of something starting and than moulding into various other platforms

 

You are thinking about an entirely different piece of software. I'm talking about Concordance the database/document management system, not Concordance released by RJC Watt of Dundee University...

[ahuxham]

You are thinking about an entirely different piece of software. I'm talking about Concordance the database/document management system, not Concordance released by RJC Watt of Dundee University...

 

Didn't I just say its not an entity itself more a principal....?

[localzuk]

Didn't I just say its not an entity itself more a principal....?

 

Err... You are still confused. Concordance is an entity - it is the renamed and improved upon 'DataFlight' software. If you had bothered to click on the link I placed earlier, you'd be able to see that!!!

 

Independently, another guy developed his own data mining software.

 

Discussion of 'principal' is irrelevant - i'm talking about database backends! Not linguistic (or any other type of) principals!

[ahuxham]

Err... You are still confused. Concordance is an entity - it is the renamed and improved upon 'DataFlight' software. If you had bothered to click on the link I placed earlier, you'd be able to see that!!!

 

Independently, another guy developed his own data mining software.

 

Discussion of 'principal' is irrelevant - i'm talking about database backends! Not linguistic (or any other type of) principals!

 

Yet again Local showing is forum prowess and being an utter idiot at the same time.

 

Firstly Concordance was a program for Litigation documents, however the system and design were borrowed and added to various other products around the globe, therefore it is a principal.

 

It's how the system was designed, how it was set-up, interaction, searching, data-mining, general, database set-up and overview that was move from this piece of software. We used a piece of software in the Speech and Language department at the RUH in Bath, that used the same back end and design to control litigation documents, which was modified to-do a completely new task.

 

And I did click the link!!!!!! (Few more !!!'s as it seems you like to use these)

 

Oh and btw, aren't you supposed to leave me a response here, your changing of topics was outstanding: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows/50983-wireless-roaming-throughout-school.html#post467311

[localzuk]

Yet again Local showing is forum prowess and being an utter idiot at the same time.

 

Firstly Concordance was a program for Litigation documents, however the system and design were borrowed and added to various other products around the globe, therefore it is a principal.

 

It's how the system was designed, how it was set-up, interaction, searching, data-mining, general, database set-up and overview that was move from this piece of software. We used a piece of software in the Speech and Language department at the RUH in Bath, that used the same back end and design to control litigation documents, which was modified to-do a completely new task.

 

And I did click the link!!!!!! (Few more !!!'s as it seems you like to use these)

 

Oh and btw, aren't you supposed to leave me a response here, your changing of topics was outstanding: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows/50983-wireless-roaming-throughout-school.html#post467311

 

Ok, may I ask why you brought this software up? This principal? It is irrelevant in its entirety to this thread. I have no interest in what someone else borrowed and turned it into for another task. I am referring to the narrow item of 'Concordance' as a database backend, which Oliver uses. It hasn't been altered, it isn't special, it is just Concordance, being used as a relational database backend. Rather than a much more sensible choice of an SQL server. A school library system does not need advanced data-mining techniques, it doesn't need to be a document management system, it doesn't need linguistic analysis etc... It just needs a decent, stable, RDBMS.

 

And I will look at the other link shortly, I have been up to a lot recently, so things slip through the net. The fact that you remembered an old thread, and then think it reasonable to bring it up on something else is amazing. Its almost like some form of forum stalking...

[Theblacksheep]

Add in the joy that Softlink has now released a new version built on SQL server, but we can't update to it yet, as it doesn't contain the functionality to integrate with Renaissance Place...

!

 

Thanks localzuk,

 

Hurrah to new SQL version....

 

Booooo to no renaissance.... any eta on renaissance integration?

[ahuxham]

Ok, may I ask why you brought this software up? This principal? It is irrelevant in its entirety to this thread. I have no interest in what someone else borrowed and turned it into for another task. I am referring to the narrow item of 'Concordance' as a database backend, which Oliver uses. It hasn't been altered, it isn't special, it is just Concordance, being used as a relational database backend. Rather than a much more sensible choice of an SQL server. A school library system does not need advanced data-mining techniques, it doesn't need to be a document management system, it doesn't need linguistic analysis etc... It just needs a decent, stable, RDBMS.

 

And I will look at the other link shortly, I have been up to a lot recently, so things slip through the net. The fact that you remembered an old thread, and then think it reasonable to bring it up on something else is amazing. Its almost like some form of forum stalking...

 

You brought it up, you're arguing that the backend is horrible and useless and I am merely proving its not.

 

Please, in future to save argument could you keep your nonsensical forum threads to a minimum, clearly wasn't worth it and to be honest no one has even commented, clearly proving what a flop train of thought that was. If you're merely after post counts, I'm sure there are plenty more threads you can add your own thoughts to.

 

And I'd argue that advanced data-mining is quite a nice feature for a library system, allowing users to search content in all books and finding a relevant book to the task.

 

The fact I remember it, was your blatant and absurd views on the matter, saying it doesn't work, it wont work, and when shown it does and the technology, standards and living proof you just tried to derail the fact, you were wrong.. as I clearly stated, thought it was a bit cowardly not to have responded, but oh well, too each his own.

[localzuk]

You brought it up, you're arguing that the backend is horrible and useless and I am merely proving its not.

 

Please, in future to save argument could you keep your nonsensical forum threads to a minimum, clearly wasn't worth it and to be honest no one has even commented, clearly proving what a flop train of thought that was. If you're merely after post counts, I'm sure there are plenty more threads you can add your own thoughts to.

 

And I'd argue that advanced data-mining is quite a nice feature for a library system, allowing users to search content in all books and finding a relevant book to the task.

 

The fact I remember it, was your blatant and absurd views on the matter, saying it doesn't work, it wont work, and when shown it does and the technology, standards and living proof you just tried to derail the fact, you were wrong.. as I clearly stated, thought it was a bit cowardly not to have responded, but oh well, too each his own.

 

Yes, I asked why they had used it. It is a system that I have proof on a day to day basis that is not reliable and difficult to manage. Even one of SoftLink's support chaps mentioned it was a weird system today, after showing me that in order to edit a field in the database he had to do various things such as 'packing' the database. It doesn't seem to have a reliable transaction logging system, so tracking where mistakes are occurring, or rolling them back is a large undertaking (unless I feel like simply restoring the entire database from a backup, losing any changes made).

 

Why must you turn up on a thread, be confrontational, bring up irrelevant products derived from the software but not actually related to it etc...

 

Face the facts - I am talking about a specific product, a specific database backend, and you decided to try and make me look a fool by talking about something completely different - and then tried to turn it into an attack on me as an individual. I'd suggest you grow up my friend.

[ahuxham]

Yes, I asked why they had used it. It is a system that I have proof on a day to day basis that is not reliable and difficult to manage. Even one of SoftLink's support chaps mentioned it was a weird system today, after showing me that in order to edit a field in the database he had to do various things such as 'packing' the database. It doesn't seem to have a reliable transaction logging system, so tracking where mistakes are occurring, or rolling them back is a large undertaking (unless I feel like simply restoring the entire database from a backup, losing any changes made).

 

Why must you turn up on a thread, be confrontational, bring up irrelevant products derived from the software but not actually related to it etc...

 

Face the facts - I am talking about a specific product, a specific database backend, and you decided to try and make me look a fool by talking about something completely different - and then tried to turn it into an attack on me as an individual. I'd suggest you grow up my friend.

 

I'm sure you're original post ask why, why, why? Leaning toward someone else to jump on the band-wagon and give you some pretend e-crony-ism.

 

I wasn't confrontational, perhaps you should re-read the second post and the third when you turned into "LOCALZ-FORUM-WARRIORZ"

 

Perhaps in the future, if you don't like what people have to say or don't like other peoples opinions, you might think about starting another thread.

 

I was trying to express my opinion that Concordance and its backend isn't as crap as you make it out to be, perhaps I was defending a product, it wasn't an attack either.

 

Thanks for the negative rep Here comes yours.

[localzuk]

I'm sure you're original post ask why, why, why? Leaning toward someone else to jump on the band-wagon and give you some pretend e-crony-ism.

 

I wasn't confrontational, perhaps you should re-read the second post and the third when you turned into "LOCALZ-FORUM-WARRIORZ"

 

Perhaps in the future, if you don't like what people have to say or don't like other peoples opinions, you might think about starting another thread.

 

I was trying to express my opinion that Concordance and its backend isn't as crap as you make it out to be, perhaps I was defending a product, it wasn't an attack either.

 

Thanks for the negative rep Here comes yours.

 

OK. Let me get this straight...

 

1. I post asking why Softlink used this product as their backend.

2. You post comments about it being related to linguistic analysis (which is in no way related to Oliver, or Concordance, the product I posted about).

3. I post a link to the product I am referring to.

4. You talk of a seperate product, by another person which took some of the principals of the software and created their own product.

5. You insist that you are being relevant by saying 'Concordance is a principal' - ignoring that the topic is about Oliver and Concordance the DBMS.

6. You then launch into personal attacks "Yet again Local showing is forum prowess and being an utter idiot at the same time." and bring up another, irrelevant topic (wireless).

7. I reiterate my comment about it being about the DBMS purely, including a comment about it after being told it was weird by a Softlink support chap.

8. You launch into another personal attack.

 

Neg rep for that? Damn straight you got neg rep!

 

Thanks localzuk,

 

Hurrah to new SQL version....

 

Booooo to no renaissance.... any eta on renaissance integration?

 

Indeed hurrah. I've not been given any time-scale, I only found out about it after our librarian was sent a flyer discussing upgrade costs. I'd hope they would get the renaissance place integration done speedily - it is pretty widely used. Our teachers use it every day here now. The kids seem to like it too.

[ahuxham]

OK. Let me get this straight...

 

1. I post asking why Softlink used this product as their backend.

2. You post comments about it being related to linguistic analysis (which is in no way related to Oliver, or Concordance, the product I posted about).

3. I post a link to the product I am referring to.

4. You talk of a seperate product, by another person which took some of the principals of the software and created their own product.

5. You insist that you are being relevant by saying 'Concordance is a principal' - ignoring that the topic is about Oliver and Concordance the DBMS.

6. You then launch into personal attacks "Yet again Local showing is forum prowess and being an utter idiot at the same time." and bring up another, irrelevant topic (wireless).

7. I reiterate my comment about it being about the DBMS purely, including a comment about it after being told it was weird by a Softlink support chap.

8. You launch into another personal attack.

 

1. Here's a clever idea, I know it sounds logical right... why don't you ask them instead of people who know nothing about how its created/designed

2. But that's what it's used for in other applications

3. I put my point across about its usefulness as a backend

4. Your point being, an example of a product where concordance as a back end works

5. The topic wasn't about the use of Oliver or DBMS, the topic was "Why do they use concordance"

6. Not an irrelevant topic, one where as per usual your comments were unjust, confusing and no way relevant to the topic, and its not a personal attack, its known fact.

7. Re-iterate a point not linked to the topic or not explained in the topic, very cleverly done there.

8. Known fact again..

[ranj]

I was shocked to hear when I rang softlink today that Oliver is not supported on Firefox.

[localzuk]

I was shocked to hear when I rang softlink today that Oliver is not supported on Firefox.

 

I'd guess that they are referring to the librarian side of things, rather than the pupil side, as it uses various technologies IIRC (I have memories of some form of IE addon that needed installing).

 

We use the pupil side, so they can search the catalogue/see links etc..., on Mac's with Camino at our school and it seems to work great. It is also available to parents and pupils out of school - and we get a variety of browsers connecting to that.

[Batman]

I expect the main reason you need IE for the librarian back end is for the reports (overdues etc), which use a word/excel template and some vb jiggery pokery.

 

I know this because we had a problem yesterday with our librarian's computer which turned out to be CC3 using a different location for word templates to what Oliver expected.

 

I am filled with dread every time we get a problem with Oliver (because it's never anything I can just wander down to the library and fix) but I would have to say that they are always very helpful when you call them... most of the time we let the librarians call them, we don't even have to get involved. It's one of the better systems we have.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Batman

[sidewinder]

Despite giving seemingly frequent problems, I dont mind Oliver. The backend is strange, wouldnt say performance is bad or anything, just that I dont know much about administering it.

And tbf the problems are often because our librarian is always trying to do something different with it, the basic day to day functions work well.

 

Softlink are a genuinely good company with regards to support too, quick response, and they're always willing to do a remote support session or talk you through something if you're happy to do it yourself. Also (I assume because the UK office is fairly small) you can usually deal with the same few people each time, which makes things a lot easier

[localzuk]

I agree - their support is first class, and their staff are always friendly (which is always important, as I dislike sitting on the phone with someone for an hour who sounds like they've given up on life).

[zag]

Anyone know if you can install Oliver on Windows 2008 R2?

[RabbieBurns]

Timeous thread appearing. We are having issues with our oliver. The Catalogue lookup part is taking ages.. sometimes up to 10 mins if they user has a lot of items out. This only started a few weeks ago.. It happens in both firefox and IE and on Win7 and XP.. Oliver support have suggested a few tihngs but none have worked.

 

Anyone come accross this issue before?

[zag]

Yes its the same Issue I am having, we thought it was our server so I'm doing a managed transfer to a new virtualized one hence my question above. Edited May 27, 2010 by zag

[Batman]

Anyone know if you can install Oliver on Windows 2008 R2?

 

I did it once and ended up using 2003 instead. I can't remember the exact reason but it was something to do with a proglet that wanted to run in console/session 0 and couldn't because of the way 2008 works.

 

I'd say it's best to have a dedicated server for it anyway so keep it simple and stick with 2003 is my advice - although things may have improved since I used it last. Ask Softlink if they support it, they may be doing so now.