Fire! Where's the register... :)

[BromcomPublicRelations]

 

Originally Posted by sonofsanta

[Re: Bromcom - PDAs:] Don't know for sure, I was only the run-around-lackey not the manager, but I thought they had a special fire drill mode where they cached the registration data so they didn't need the wireless connection to function? Seeing as any school with any sense* is assembling as far away from the building as possible.

 

*This definitely does not include all schools.

 

Yes they are cached, you can choose which is your fire register am,pm or latest class. Everytime you take a register and send/receive the lists are made up to date, or you can recall the last x registers. I think this the same on the old brick PDAs as it is on new laptop software version.

 

Yes, Vik is right - on Bromcom devices and new laptop/Pocket PC versions Fire Drill faciities have been fully implemented and have 'perfected':

 

1. AM/PM Registration groups are cached locally.

2. Right through the day, cached lists get dynamically updated

3. Other than AM/PM can be designated as a 'Fire Drill' group

4. Dynamic updating also integrates devices using public networks GPRS or 3G

 

We are generally modest - but on this ocasion we have to say - it must be the only system of its type - truly unique in the market!

[cookie_monster]

That's sickening - who could enforce laws to that extent, regardless of religious views...

 

 

Yep

[sonofsanta]

That's sickening - who could enforce laws to that extent, regardless of religious views...

 

Just the idea of Religious Enforcement police is terrifying enough, let alone that they'd go to these horrific extents.

 

Now worried that there well be the Cameron Cops who make sure you love Dave and appreciate Dave and would never speak out against Dave because Dave Loves You.

[vikpaw]

That's sickening - who could enforce laws to that extent, regardless of religious views...

 

unfortunately it's required here for safety. if anyone saw my post a while back on what happened when it rained, yes it does sometimes rain here, well, fires aren't our biggest risk. it's the driving!!

now think how bad it would be if the pretty young ladies were flashing their shoulders, or heaven forbid their ankles, it would be chaos on the roads! it's lucky women can't drive here

[tmcd35]

Just the idea of Religious Enforcement police is terrifying enough, let alone that they'd go to these horrific extents.

 

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are...

 

[Tyiell]

unfortunately it's required here for safety. if anyone saw my post a while back on what happened when it rained, yes it does sometimes rain here, well, fires aren't our biggest risk. it's the driving!!

now think how bad it would be if the pretty young ladies were flashing their shoulders, or heaven forbid their ankles, it would be chaos on the roads! it's lucky women can't drive here

 

Youre keeping me in suspense, I must have missed that one - wwhat happened when it rained...?

 

So ladies have to be completely covered, and aren't allowed to drive. That must be lame. And given you are (if my hazy geography is correct) right on the coast of the Red Sea - pretty much the undisputed best place for diving on the planet, and certainly my favourite - how do the girls manage that? Do they make neoprene versions of Victorian swimming costumes? Or is that banned too?

 

You may have been able to spot that I'm not too well travelled in that area - I visited Egypt and that's it....

Edited March 9, 2010 by Tyiell

[lionsl2005]

we are primary. its done by office staff. still on paper based.

[creese]

I'm sitting in an ASCL meeting and this very topic came up. Your fire officers will not look at anything you provide for them because they will check the building what ever your records say - paper or electronic. Just clear the building as quickly as possible - leave everything behind.

 

Checking for children that have bunked off (the true purpose of a fire drill) is another matter.

 

This is the only way to behave in a fire. If after 5 minute of evacuated you find someone missing who is going to go go back in and where are they going to look and for what period of time. It's far better to practice sweeping the rooms as you leave, checking toilets etc. as you pass No untrained person should ever re-enter a burning building.

[SkywOrca]

This should come back to having fully qualified fire marshals. No-one else should be doing anything except evacuating as quickly and safely as possible.

 

In all seriousness, however, I would suggest that all schools need to have a conversation with their local fire service to ensure they are applying their local advice. It might well depend on all sorts of other factors (proximity to the fire station, ease of access etc?) as to the precise guidance that each school would receive, but as has been stated, when the firemen arrive on site, they won't take any account of what your registers tell you, they'll want to know that a sweep has been performed, otherwise they'll have to spend time doing this themselves.

 

I think the idea of registers is great for getting some degree of order on the playing fields (or wherever your assembly point is) otherwise it can easily descend into a shambles. At the end of the day, however, the priority should be in ensuring the safety of everyone on site.

[vikpaw]

This should come back to having fully qualified fire marshals. No-one else should be doing anything except evacuating as quickly and safely as possible.

....

I think the idea of registers is great for getting some degree of order on the playing fields (or wherever your assembly point is) otherwise it can easily descend into a shambles. At the end of the day, however, the priority should be in ensuring the safety of everyone on site.

 

It's absolutely essential that all staff are aware of the fire procedures, not just the taking of registers which is more of a deterrent for kids who skive, but the actual check rooms, shout into toilets, and sweep each area policy. We forget this in our over complicated ideas, it's ridiculous how many people you come across who don't know their actual responsibilities, i've seen senior management direct students across a potentially burning building just to access the most convenient fire exit to the muster area.

 

There should be a policy for what to do when the key staff are off/sick/away/out to lunch, and all new staff / cover / temporary need to know what's expected of them.

 

Youre keeping me in suspense, I must have missed that one - wwhat happened when it rained...?

 

So ladies have to be completely covered, and aren't allowed to drive. That must be lame. And given you are (if my hazy geography is correct) right on the coast of the Red Sea - pretty much the undisputed best place for diving on the planet, and certainly my favourite - how do the girls manage that? Do they make neoprene versions of Victorian swimming costumes? Or is that banned too?

 

You may have been able to spot that I'm not too well travelled in that area - I visited Egypt and that's it....

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/45868-when-rains-desert.html

Do Saudi Women Like to Swim? American Bedu

 

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are...

 

...don't forget an almost fanatical devotion to the pope!

[sjatkn]

office staff do the fire regs printed from PARS

 

Built into PARS is a fire module which caches the attendance data every couple of minutes. That way when it looses the network connection you have attendance data to that point. We have dedicated several laptops for this purpose and they are picked up by a member of the office staff as soon as the firebell sounds.

 

If you want to try it out create a shortcut to

C:\Program Files\SIMS\PARS .net\bootstrap.exe" PARS /F

 

We also have a collection of golf umbrellas next to the laptops and these are taken regardless of the weather. If it's raining then the need is obvious but you need them when it is sunny just so you can see the screen.

Edited March 10, 2010 by sjatkn
Made the quote work properly.

[creese]

Built into PARS is a fire module which caches the attendance data every couple of minutes. That way when it looses the network connection you have attendance data to that point. We have dedicated several laptops for this purpose and they are picked up by a member of the office staff as soon as the firebell sounds.

 

If you want to try it out create a shortcut to

C:\Program Files\SIMS\PARS .net\bootstrap.exe" PARS /F

 

We also have a collection of golf umbrellas next to the laptops and these are taken regardless of the weather. If it's raining then the need is obvious but you need them when it is sunny just so you can see the screen.

 

Do they have to unplug these laptops? I can see some great potential for law suits should there actually be a fire.

 

Maybe Bruce Willis can walk through fire but asking or telling someone to:

Unplug laptop (which is hopefully charged enough to trawl through a register)

Pick up a brolly.

Ensure all students are out of the room.

Ensure that no one is running out of the building.

Finally get out of the building having not tripped someone with the brolly or dropped the laptop, bending over to pick the pieces up in causing several people behind to fall over you..........

 

I had the situation once when I worked in a school where the break bell went and 3 seperate classes converged on one wandering child on a stairwell. no one was going to give way but the older class was winning in the scrum. Fortunately I forced my way to the middle and made them all stand still and guided them out safely. I relayed this to the Head, who's response was "what can you do". Well a lot actually, what if it was a fire?

[creese]

A useful link posted on Capita Supportnet.

Read from Page 113.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/150865.pdf

 

The most useful sentence IMO is:

In many educational premises, a roll call is not a practical proposition, therefore it is important to have in place robust management procedures to ensure that the building has been effectively evacuated (e.g. sweeping of the premises by staff).

[john]

In many educational premises, a roll call is not a practical proposition, therefore it is important to have in place robust management procedures to ensure that the building has been effectively evacuated (e.g. sweeping of the premises by staff).

You won't get teaching staff doing that, they leave the doors and windows open as well as tell the kids its only going to be a drill so don't use that fire door walk all the way through the building as you would normally!!! Madness!!! If the teaching staff did it they would want danger payments, a 2.1 TLR and 5 weeks more holiday to be agreed by the unions, that job will fall upon support staff as ever.... (me bitter about Fire Dutys and the serious nature of it and how many kids don't know how to behave or act in them, NEVER!! (sorry long day but I'm pasionate about Fire Safety!))

[creese]

You won't get teaching staff doing that, they leave the doors and windows open as well as tell the kids its only going to be a drill so don't use that fire door walk all the way through the building as you would normally!!! Madness!!! If the teaching staff did it they would want danger payments, a 2.1 TLR and 5 weeks more holiday to be agreed by the unions, that job will fall upon support staff as ever.... (me bitter about Fire Dutys and the serious nature of it and how many kids don't know how to behave or act in them, NEVER!! (sorry long day but I'm pasionate about Fire Safety!))

 

Then the S**t will fall on SMT should anything happen in a real fire. Trouble is it takes something serious to happen before effective action is taken in education, data loss is not taken seriously until someone leaves a laptop on a train etc. Having been in a real fire myself I'm quite passionate too and think that all this nonsense about taking laptops and registers to check is just glossing over the cracks. Sadly someone will have to die in a school before somehing is done. This document makes total sense and I will pass it on to any school that asks about fire drills from now on.

[browolf]

here's a thought, where's there's no wireless in congregation area, could use some form of IPoAC to transmit the data to a central data collection point on or near the network! ;-)

[creese]

here's a thought, where's there's no wireless in congregation area, could use some form of IPoAC to transmit the data to a central data collection point on or near the network! ;-)

 

What if the fire is in the server?

[conedltd]

Is should possible to schedule SIMS to print out an attendance exception report when registration has ended. Much shorter than a full attendance list. There will always be a risk with fire and attendance registers. If there is a fire 2 minutes after the children get into the classroom, before either a paper or electronic register has been taken, you have no records to check against. Surely it's about minimising the risk when going over to an electronic system, knowing it will not be 100%. I would plan for the registers not being available. I would also NOT plan on a technologically challenging solution to work or be operated successfully during a real fire. Use the technology to prepare for "back to basics" when this happens.

[seacider]

Only a thought but, if the printouts show only the absent pupils then the form tutors would know who was unaccounted for. this should take less time to print

[matt40k]

I'm with Phil Neal on this one, whatever you do, the fire service is going to search the entire school, even if you have all the child out safely and have a paper register confirming this, an electronic register and even if you have GPS installed all the children, teachers, locals, animals or anything that breaths, confirming that they are out of the building. Just print the form registers at the start of the year. Job done, eco saved. Everyone happy.

 

Don't like the idea of someone waiting next to a laserjet in the middle of the building whilst a fire is going on next door. To get an "up-to-date" class list.

[CAM]

Put the printer next to a fire exit. And if the fire is just next door you don't wait around anyway.

[matt40k]

Put the printer next to a fire exit. And if the fire is just next door you don't wait around anyway.

 

You seem to be missing the point. How do you know the fire is next door? I'm sure the fire service say not to wait around inside the building. Would you really want that sort of data lying around? Ok, no address, but still! And what a complete waste of paper!

[creese]

You seem to be missing the point. How do you know the fire is next door? I'm sure the fire service say not to wait around inside the building. Would you really want that sort of data lying around? Ok, no address, but still! And what a complete waste of paper!

 

I believe that the vast majority of people that die in a fire are killed by the, invisible, fumes. You would catch me waiting for any super fast printer, one real fire is enough for me.

[CAM]

If there was a fire in the room next door you'd know about it pretty quickly unless you are asleep. Hell, a house in the road on the other side of the campus was on fire and I could smell it!

[matt40k]

You'll be suprised. Doesn't take long for a fire to spread and your plan would fall apart if there actually WAS a fire. Go have a chat with your local fire service. Sure they'll set you straight, failing that they'll point out your schools insurance doesn't cover people hanging around a building when the fire bells going off.

 

PS: Would laugh my head off if some insurance company is reading this.