Ghost or software packaging?

[eejit]

We use Ghost to deploy new software to our workstations. It works pretty well, but it's a huge upheaval, and not appropriate for just one small package - we tend to do a manual install for that kind of thing.

 

In the past we've experimented with software packaging - creating our own msi's but it's never been that successful. We've used winstall from veritas and a few trials of other products, none of which we've been 100% happy with.

 

I guess this thread doesn't apply to the RM guys, but who here create's their own packages? or do you always Ghost, or do manual installs on all machines?

 

I'd be happy to get some more MSI creator recommendations, if anyone has any.

[ChrisH]

I repackage a lot of stuff with about an 80% success rate I have found. Sites like Appdeploy.com can help a lot sometimes as well.

[MkII]

I use Ghost - with UltimateBootCD - re-doing the image - but for a few apps - at a rate of what seems like termly at the moment. I connect to the share where my images are kept and do several at a time [25 is my record]. It really helped buying 70 PC's at once 2 years ago - the one image does the lot. I use NewSID on the new images rather than Sysprep. I hear it's not as good but I don't know why - if anyone can throw any light on that....

To my understanding, there's a finite number of times you can sysprep a machine. My experience is with W2K sysprep - so things may have improved a lot since then.

We also tried a generic image for XP that's hardware independant, supposedly - but the machines are still unstable afterwards. There's a fix i've yet to try but i'm not holding my breath .

 

I've done GPO installs on a course - packaging my own MSI's - but I can't be bothered to make a clean machine for this purpose - so i've never done that live. It's the big boys way to do stuff I 'spose ... must get around to it one day.

[Dos_Box]

I use RIS (Remote Installation Services). I used to use Imagecast, but they haven't updated their product in quite some time now.

RIS has many advantages, not least being the scripting setups which combined with active directory automatically name the PC and join it to the domain. Throw in MSI distribution (which is quite flaky at times) and you'll never , ever need Ghost again. This combined with the fact I can image as many computers of differnt types as I want, when I want (I don't have to wait until they are all ready to start) makes for a dammed useful addition to the Windows server suite tools.

[MkII]

I'd like to use RIS. Have you got any advice on setting this up? Or good places to find out all about it??

 

I can image as many computers of differnet types as I want

- but you still have to image each hardware setup right?

[eejit]

We use RIS to setup basic stations. Then we've altered the default OU for new computers to one that deploys all our MSIs. That's fine as far as those programs go, but what about all the old crap you're given to install? RIS is of no use to those programs. It's either Ghost an image with those already installed or create your own MSI as far as I'm concerned.

 

I know the appdeploy.com website, but there is an awful lot of things to learn for different installations. I would like a program that will take a snapshot of a pc, then you install your program, then you tell the program to take a second snapshot of your machine, and whatever the difference is, that'll be your MSI. Now, there certainly are programs that do this, but I've never been happy with any of them.

[MkII]

We use RIS to setup basic stations. Then we've altered the default OU for new computers to one that deploys all our MSIs. That's fine as far as those programs go, but what about all the old crap you're given to install? RIS is of no use to those programs. It's either Ghost an image with those already installed or create your own MSI as far as I'm concerned.

All our old crap I can install on every machine - and with a redirected Start Menu, I can pick off the ones I want users to see - that's possible isn't it - to build a complete image like that using RIS? I've heard Office doesn't play well with RIS [amongst others - but Office is the only one that affects me at the moment] - that'd be a pain - make the whole process twice as long as ghosting.

I know the appdeploy.com website

Thanks - I didn't!

[eejit]

I've heard Office doesn't play well with RIS [amongst others - but Office is the only one that affects me at the moment] - that'd be a pain - make the whole process twice as long as ghosting.

 

Mark, Office is the easiest thing to install. I don't install it using RIS, but instead have an admin install of office on a hidden share in the server. Office is deployed to all PCs throughout the domain using a software deployment group policy. So, RIS joins the PC to the domain and on next reboot office gets installed (along with Symantec antivirus and a few other odds and sods)

[Geoff]

If your using a version of Office after 2000 you need to make sure you have the enterprise edition CDs to create an administrative install point sucessfully.

[eejit]

We always get ours from the local borough who give us corporate media with corporate keys, which don't need activation. They have some deal with MS, is that not the same in all boroughs?

[Dos_Box]

I'd like to use RIS. Have you got any advice on setting this up? Or good places to find out all about it??

 

I can image as many computers of differnet types as I want

- but you still have to image each hardware setup right?

 

Yes and no. You setup an installation of Win 2K and XP Pro, depending on your needs. You then setup one of your workstations using this first 'image'. You install all of the drivers and software and re-image.

What happens next is that all of the origional Windows files are not re-copied in the image. they are refernced from the origional image, saving you space on each new one you create.

Because RIS scripts easily (I'll post them tomorrow to save you all the effort of working them out) it really doesn't matter about the speed they image at as ALL post config stuff is automatic.

RIS images are uncompressed BTW and can take up quite some space.

All in all, a good RIS system beats the pants off Ghost and Imagecast. And no boot floppies needed either, although you can make them for non-PXE comlient NICs.

[tarquel]

Is there licensing needed to use RIS? (probably a silly question) I'd luv the no-floppies-needed option - I've heard you can do something like that for ghostcasting, but it was a while ago i heard it.

 

And I use Ghost (ghostcasting method) on the main bulk of the machines and custom created apps/installs to "prep" a syste to image.

 

Regards,

N.

[altecsole]

I'd luv the no-floppies-needed option - I've heard you can do something like that for ghostcasting, but it was a while ago i heard it.

 

With Ghost Enterprise edition you can install a hidden Ghost boot partition which, when you image a workstation from the server, boots the pc using the boot partition, connects to the server and downloads the image. Once the imaging has taken place it hides the boot partition again and boots using the imaged partition. It works well.

[Ric_]

You can also set up a TFTP server and use PXE to boot into the ghost app. All th instructions are in the manual - works well when set up.

 

Although Ghost has never let me down tooooooooo much, I must admit that I am going to start trying to use RIS. With Ghost licenses at about £30 a pop, there are immediate cost benefits when you need to shell out for a couple of hundred licenses.

[Dos_Box]

Is there licensing needed to use RIS? (probably a silly question) I'd luv the no-floppies-needed option - I've heard you can do something like that for ghostcasting, but it was a while ago i heard it.

 

And I use Ghost (ghostcasting method) on the main bulk of the machines and custom created apps/installs to "prep" a syste to image.

 

Regards,

N.

 

Nope. Its totally free (apart from Server 2K3/2K licence costs)

[tarquel]

With Ghost Enterprise edition you can install a hidden Ghost boot partition which, when you image a workstation from the server, boots the pc using the boot partition, connects to the server and downloads the image. Once the imaging has taken place it hides the boot partition again and boots using the imaged partition. It works well.

 

Yep - this is what I've heard of...except I havent been able to do it lol and its probably more hassle to do it anyhow (or is it?)

 

Nope. Its totally free (apart from Server 2K3/2K licence costs)

 

Excellent - thats music to my ears

 

Few small questions:

- Does it use much resources?

- Can the space it uses be on a different HD to the installed dir in C? [i plan on whacking in a ATA drive just for "image" purposes hehe]

- Is there any problems to encounter if you run it on a DC server?

(cost & space lol are too big an issue atm to warrant getting another server besides the email one we should be getting before the end of term - I'll use the email box mayb)

- Any other info you can think of that would be handy to remember would be helpful ta

 

*goes to find the 2k3 vol cd's*

 

Regards,

N.

[altecsole]

Ghost can image any drive/partition, I think RIPRep will only do the C: drive.

 

Setting up a Ghost boot partition is fairly straightforward.

 

I used to use Ghost because we had an NT 4 network. In my new job it's all W2k. If you've got W2k and can use RIS and RIPRep, I can't really see much reason for spending the money to use Ghost.

[MkII]

Ghost can image any drive/partition, I think RIPRep will only do the C: drive.

That's a pain - to maintain compatability with the Citrix system all our machines have 2 partitions - one for apps and 1 for the system. Can anyone confirm this? Ta!

[tarquel]

Ghost can image any drive/partition, I think RIPRep will only do the C: drive.

 

Well yes, naturally lol I was on about the following:

 

Setting up a Ghost boot partition is fairly straightforward.

 

Cool...I'll have to try it sometime as...

 

I used to use Ghost because we had an NT 4 network. In my new job it's all W2k. If you've got W2k and can use RIS and RIPRep, I can't really see much reason for spending the money to use Ghost.

 

...I still use 98 on the older computer suite. They should be strong enough to run XP ok, but they've been going solid for 4ish years now and I think it may be a waste of £££ getting the XP licenses :S Maybe let them die and replace the whole room and feed them out to the other deptartments lol

 

I'll certainly give RIS a go tho

 

Cheers,

N.

[ICTNUT]

I roll out an network based image with all required additional software rolled out at ppoint of install, all silent and all non user interactable.

 

It does require a boot from floppy but then that's becouse our NIC's are not PXE compliant.

 

Once the base image is installed we use group policy to either apply updates to exisiting software or install from scratch.

 

I have this all documented somewhere if anyone needs it.

[Dos_Box]

Few small questions:

- Does it use much resources?

- Can the space it uses be on a different HD to the installed dir in C? [i plan on whacking in a ATA drive just for "image" purposes hehe]

- Is there any problems to encounter if you run it on a DC server?

(cost & space lol are too big an issue atm to warrant getting another server besides the email one we should be getting before the end of term - I'll use the email box mayb)

- Any other info you can think of that would be handy to remember would be helpful ta Smile

 

1. Mine runs off a duel Xeon Dell 2650 server, so there is very little performance hit.

 

2. You cannot store RIS images on the root drive of a server. They must live on a seperate drive\partition.. Having a seperate drive is a good iddea

 

3. You can run it on a DC happily so long as it does not stress it out. Any modern server will RIS happily.

 

4. Once you have setup RIS and istalled your base OS images DO NOT delete them. it will break all of your other images.

[tarquel]

@ICTNUT:

 

I have this all documented somewhere if anyone needs it.

 

That would be really handy thanks

 

@DB:

 

Thanks for the points you made

 

I'm gonna stick it on the email server i "should" be setting up soonish. Think it'll be ideal, along with wsus too [wsus on dc atm]

 

Look forward to trying it over the next few weeks

 

Nath

[MkII]

I have this all documented somewhere if anyone needs it.

 

I'd like a copy too please!

 

[funny - I thought i'd already posted this!]

[Alex]

Ghost has alot of nice features, but the main reason I'd recommend using it is TIME.

 

Can re-image a machine in ~ 10 mins with Ghost and multicast 100 at the same time if you wish.

 

RIS can take the best part of a day if you have a lot of software :-S

 

But then again RIS doesnt cost 10 quid per machine.

 

Dont go near the 'home' or 'small business' version of ghost, they're utter utter trash. The total solution suite is the way to go.

[Inox]

When this thread was started someone asked about deploying software...

With Ghost 8 Enterprise edition (and I assume with the new Ghost 9 Solution Suite) there is a tool called AI snapshot which will take an image of your system as it is now. You then install all your software (except MS products) and run the tool again. It then builds you a nice small compressed single EXE file with built in installer without u having to do a thing. This can then either be put into AD GPO's to be installed or installed through a batch file on startup or it can be deployed out by either double clicking on it on each machine and letting it run (the install is fully automated with NO user input needed), or use the Ghost Console to push it out accross the network, either single pc's or a multicast.

 

We use this method and it's SO quick n easy most of the time (I say most because with this sort of thing some software dont play nice).

 

If you want any more info on this, just ask :-)