Public sector employees to get ripped off, again

[localzuk]

Those that can't or those that wont.

 

Can't. That's why we have laws to deal with those that won't.

[ahuxham]

Can't. That's why we have laws to deal with those that won't.

 

What non-existent laws. I know many a person pissing around wasting our tax/ni money, and when they are caught. They just cry or do other imaginable things and get away with it.

 

Sure laws are in place, but they aren't that effective and policy the subject in matter is another long story that indeed costs even more money.

[mikes]

Can't. That's why we have laws to deal with those that won't.

 

 

 

:lol:

[Midget]

isn't it weird how it's always people on low pay who say leftie tax the rich systems are best, but they soon change their minds when they start working their way up the pay ladder.

 

The only way forward is to shrink the "State". Cut child benefits, remove all the think tanks and other govt funded organisations, and severely cut local govts (the wastage and corruption there would shame westminster)

 

of course none of that will happen because it will mainly effect Labour's core voters and that's what's most important to them.

[Jiser]

I see many forms of wasting money every day at school. Why not start in your work place?

[localzuk]

What non-existent laws. I know many a person pissing around wasting our tax/ni money, and when they are caught. They just cry or do other imaginable things and get away with it.

 

Sure laws are in place, but they aren't that effective and policy the subject in matter is another long story that indeed costs even more money.

 

:lol:

 

That's the thing - just because the laws aren't being policed effectively doesn't mean they couldn't be policed effectively.

 

Personally, I'd prefer to see whatever wastage level with social support policies to ensure those that need the support get it. Which would you rather? Seeing millions of people with no food and no housing, or seeing those millions fed and housed with a percentage taking advantage?

[broc]

It is a measure of a civilised society when the poor, needy & disadvantaged are supported by others more fortunate.

 

Unfortunately there will always be those who try to exploit the system; we should not punish those less fortunate than ourselves or selfishly exploit our advantage.... a lesson our politicians, bankers & the very wealthy still need to learn.

 

I am prepared to pay my taxes so that people who are genuinely in need get help & support, but I want others in a similar position to me (or better off) to share the burden fairly.....

 

I would challenge our politicians to rework 'system' to prevent people a) unfairly exploiting the welfare system and b) avoiding paying their fair share of taxes.

 

Unfortunately I don't think either of our major political parties is up to the task.

[ahuxham]

That's the thing - just because the laws aren't being policed effectively doesn't mean they couldn't be policed effectively.

 

Personally, I'd prefer to see whatever wastage level with social support policies to ensure those that need the support get it. Which would you rather? Seeing millions of people with no food and no housing, or seeing those millions fed and housed with a percentage taking advantage?

 

No food and no housing. Perhaps the hand-out model is the wrong. Sure use social support to support those that at all costs can't and policy that with utter militancy, otherwise, let everyone struggle for the rest.

 

Americans get no where near as much support as the British do, and the same with many other countries. I was born and grew up in South Africa, and we get no such thing, the only support policies are in place to support those that really cant. No free medical care, no handouts.

 

And that's my opinion, if yours is different, than albeit. I've lived in both America and South Africa, and know the differences between worlds, and some work better than others.

 

Forcing people to work, might even fill the low-end jobs only foreign workers are getting, and when asked why only foreign workers are getting them: Because they don't moan about the job, and just get on and do it, if the same applied and you had to work, they'd work.

[localzuk]

No food and no housing. Perhaps the hand-out model is the wrong. Sure use social support to support those that at all costs can't and policy that with utter militancy, otherwise, let everyone struggle for the rest.

 

Americans get no where near as much support as the British do, and the same with many other countries. I was born and grew up in South Africa, and we get no such thing, the only support policies are in place to support those that really cant. No free medical care, no handouts.

 

And that's my opinion, if yours is different, than albeit. I've lived in both America and South Africa, and know the differences between worlds, and some work better than others.

 

Forcing people to work, might even fill the low-end jobs only foreign workers are getting, and when asked why only foreign workers are getting them: Because they don't moan about the job, and just get on and do it, if the same applied and you had to work, they'd work.

 

The UK is not America. It is also not South Africa. Personally, I'm glad of that. Both the USA and South Africa have a much higher level of violent crime, muggings and murder. Why do you think this is?

[Jamo]

The UK is not America. It is also not South Africa. Personally, I'm glad of that. Both the USA and South Africa have a much higher level of violent crime, muggings and murder. Why do you think this is?

 

I totally agree with this, my brother went to SA and got told to sleep with a bat!

[ICTSM]

I watched question time last night and was shocked when a member of the audience stated that her son - who is in Afghanistan on the front line...as a PVT, only earns £1216 a month. Has to pay NI and tax too!! I earn that much and sit in a nice warm safe office to work.

 

It kinda put things into perspective for me.

[jcollings]

I totally agree with this, my brother went to SA and got told to sleep with a bat!

 

Pipistrelle or Brown long-eared?

[localzuk]

I watched question time last night and was shocked when a member of the audience stated that her son - who is in Afghanistan on the front line...as a PVT, only earns £1216 a month. Has to pay NI and tax too!! I earn that much and sit in a nice warm safe office to work.

 

It kinda put things into perspective for me.

 

The amount is not great, but remember that they do also get accommodation (the main living cost most of us have) for free at their base usually IIRC, as well as food. (Unless I am very much mistaken...)

[ICTSM]

The amount is not great, but remember that they do also get accommodation (the main living cost most of us have) for free at their base usually IIRC, as well as food. (Unless I am very much mistaken...)

 

Hardly a comparison for those that put their lives on the line to protect us!

[ahuxham]

The amount is not great, but remember that they do also get accommodation (the main living cost most of us have) for free at their base usually IIRC, as well as food. (Unless I am very much mistaken...)

 

Accommodation is not free, you pay a very subsidised amount for this. Food as well, circa £15 a week for food and around £7 a week for accommodation.

 

From experience.

[localzuk]

Accommodation is not free, you pay a very subsidised amount for this. Food as well, circa £15 a week for food and around £7 a week for accommodation.

 

From experience.

 

Ah, ok. Still, it is still cheap compared to normal accomodation and food. I live in 1 room and pay £360 a month.

 

Hardly a comparison for those that put their lives on the line to protect us!

 

I did say it was low. But then, where do you draw the line?

[cookie_monster]

Ah, ok. Still, it is still cheap compared to normal accomodation and food. I live in 1 room and pay £360 a month.

 

 

 

I did say it was low. But then, where do you draw the line?

 

 

 

True it's difficult to draw a line but I do feel they should be paid the same as a junior police office at least.

[ahuxham]

Ah, ok. Still, it is still cheap compared to normal accomodation and food. I live in 1 room and pay £360 a month.

 

 

 

I did say it was low. But then, where do you draw the line?

 

Well it may be a bit low, but the Navy, Army and RAF all have tiered Ranks that increase the pay scale.

 

The higher your rank the more you earn. That £1200 was more than likely a lower ranking member of the forces. Lets not forget their pay is topped up as well. They get paid 24 hours a day, even when sleeping your paid, 365 days a year. They get danger pay as well for the situation they're in.

 

I remember bringing home around £1400 a month after tax/ni/food/accommodation as an SAC, on deployment.

[cookie_monster]

Well it may be a bit low, but the Navy, Army and RAF all have tiered Ranks that increase the pay scale.

 

The higher your rank the more you earn. That £1200 was more than likely a lower ranking member of the forces. Lets not forget their pay is topped up as well. They get paid 24 hours a day, even when sleeping your paid, 365 days a year. They get danger pay as well for the situation they're in.

 

I remember bringing home around £1400 a month after tax/ni/food/accommodation as an SAC, on deployment.

 

 

 

So when back in the U.K they get paid in a 'standard' way e.g. 8 hours a day?

[ahuxham]

So when back in the U.K they get paid in a 'standard' way e.g. 8 hours a day?

 

Nope, still 24 hours a day, irregardless of location, you just lose deployment benefits, hazard benefits, and various other benefits.

 

The hourly rate is well below national minimum, but as a result of it being the MOD, and being paid 24 hours a day even on weekends, this equates to a normal wage.

[Dos_Box]

I spent 13 years in the army. When I left in 2000 as an NCO they guy who swept floors in McDonalds earnt more than I did, yet I was qualified to the eyeballs and in what was an 'upper' trade band. I commonly worked 15-20 hours a day (in the UK and at my job) yet you get no overtime. My trade at the time had appauling promotion prospects and it was an average of 14 years to make corporal. And you even had to pay council tax when deployed on operations at the time. And there is still a huge misconception that forces are exempt income tax etc. All forces members pay full tax, NI, food, and rent, juse as anyone else would and yet are exempt from minimum wage legislation!

[cookie_monster]

I spent 13 years in the army. When I left in 2000 as an NCO they guy who swept floors in McDonalds earnt more than I did, yet I was qualified to the eyeballs and in what was an 'upper' trade band. I commonly worked 15-20 hours a day (in the UK and at my job) yet you get no overtime. My trade at the time had appauling promotion prospects and it was an average of 14 years to make corporal. And you even had to pay council tax when deployed on operations at the time. And there is still a huge misconception that forces are exempt income tax etc. All forces members pay full tax, NI, food, and rent, juse as anyone else would and yet are exempt from minimum wage legislation!

 

 

 

I thought above it was stated that they don't pay full food and rent, I'm not saying it make the pay good or anything just is that correct?

[ahuxham]

You don't pay full food and rent, perhaps previously you had to. I left end of 2007 after 3 years in the RAF Regiment.

[Midget]

you can leave after 3years?

[ahuxham]

you can leave after 3years?

 

Yes. If you don't you have to stay another 6 years until 9 years service have passed.