Serco Support being pants?

[john]

Is it just me or are Serco support being pants?? I am having very serious issues with my install of it at present, and trying to get anyone to do anything about it is like trying to get blood out of a stone! (In-fact that is probably easier!) I call daily to try and speak to people involved who are never available, I leave messages and no call or emails back, ask for a manager as I am concerned that we won't be able to get results into it on Wednesday and no managers available, they put internal notes on cases but then fail to tell me them when they ask for details in the internal notes etc.

 

They say they cannot replicate the problems at there end BUT they have seen them occur at our end so its clearly a problem and thus should be looked into and fixed even its at our end, I offer them full and easy access to our live system so they can see it and use it but they never respond to the request.

 

I usually am favourable with them and happy but this is just taking the biscuit.

 

To say that the renewal notice is here for it and its un-paid and they have been told it will remain un-paid until they fix this and sort the backlog of cases out isn't working that well anymore (always used to work!)

 

Is it just me that's having this problem or is it more than me? I am really getting fed up no-one seems to be interested in the problems despite me stressing they are risking the future of students here and the future of the product they do not seem to care (more interested in going home on time or early!)

[Tallwood_6]

I've never found them all that great to be honest. Are you trying to get them to help with a fresh facility/eportal install? I know from experience they much perfer that they carry the initial install themselves.

[john]

I've never found them all that great to be honest. Are you trying to get them to help with a fresh facility/eportal install? I know from experience they much perfer that they carry the initial install themselves.

Nope its the original one they themselves did about 4 years ago now, its not been modified or anything since then just windows updates and SQL updates applied to the server, which when you read the info they have on the website says that SQL should always be patched up etc etc

 

I should also add, try to speak to my account manager is also like blood out of a stone!

 

All I can say is that whilst they continue this and I have to keep saying to management I cannot do this as its still not working they are just digging the grave deeper and deeper as I will fight all the way to keep Serco as the MIS as I do like it and its lightyears ahead of Sims (fine its improving by what I see but I don't agree with having to get learning gateway as an extra to give the web access that Serco has with it etc) but each time they mess up which this is and its getting deeper and deeper the grave gets bigger and bigger and closer to them being shoved into it as if they say we are not having it then it will go despite my crys to not get rid of it!

[Sivadam]

and its lightyears ahead of Sims

 

I think a number of us would take exception to that remark ..............

 

[john]

I think a number of us would take exception to that remark ..............

 

The instant difference being that for web based access you have to have Sharepoint and the Sims Webparts thus the cost can be into the thousands to sort out, we get web access as part of it and it runs on IIS so doesn't need Sharepoint which can be costly and time consuming to setup, its great if your LEA is doing it but some people don't enjoy being sheep and following the LEA.

[maniac]

Having worked with Both Sercos product and Sims, I can see the advantages and disadvantages of both systems.

 

SIMS is well established, well supported and generally quite stable. Also their interface is in my opinion very intuitive, the reporting interface is good and it runs quite swiftly on a good speced workstation. However it lacks in one big way, and that is the web interface for it is very poor, and requires as has been stated additional licenses to function in an organisation.

 

Sercos product has an excellent web interface which is very highly developed and means the teaching staff don't need the full client installed on their machines, and you can offer outside access for teaching staff, and logins for parents and carers without buying any additional licenses. It doesn't even need IIS to run on, as it installs with Apache Tomcat, although I think Serco recommend using IIS to host it through. However the CMIS product that is used for administation in offices is in my opinion very poor in comparison with the SIMS interface, although it has one key advantage - it will run off a network share and doesn't need installing onto every machine it's used on!

 

The best outcome would be a hybrid of the two, the sims interface for office administration and reporting and the Serco E-portal interface for the teaching staff and parent/carer access. Shame you can't pick individual components of different systems like that

 

Mike.

[CyberNerd]

I would also agree Maniacs thoughts - We've used both products as well.

Eventually we ditched Serco because the support was so bad, even though there were aspects that were much better than SIMS.

[Sivadam]

The instant difference being that for web based access you have to have Sharepoint and the Sims Webparts thus the cost can be into the thousands to sort out, we get web access as part of it and it runs on IIS so doesn't need Sharepoint which can be costly and time consuming to setup, its great if your LEA is doing it but some people don't enjoy being sheep and following the LEA.

 

We have not got Sharepoint and we use SLG!

Oh - and the LA are just looking into it and are consulting us on procedures! I don't think you could call us sheep!

[Sylv3r]

We use the SIMS SLG webparts with Sharepoint WSS and both staff and students love it. The LA had their own managed solution but we decided to go our own way and host it ourselves internally - one of the better decisions we have ever made.

[Tallwood_6]

For all the Serco support woes we have had SIM's and CMIS and without a shadow of a doubt CMIS is far more intuative and easy to manage and above all customise to a schools needs. Yes the admin interface isn't quite as good but i dont have to run around stations reinstalling or upgrading and by all accounts its getting moved into completely web based interface as we speak. Yes SIM's might be moving in the same direction but i'll bet a large sum of money that Serco will do a far better job of it.

 

With regards to your support problems much like RM you end up speaking with second line support the vast majority of the time and if they cannot sort it, it sits in a queue for 3rd line to eventually look at or feed info back to second line. If you can get hold of a member of 3rd line or implimentation they shuold be of vastly more help.

[Sivadam]

.... but i dont have to run around stations reinstalling or upgrading ....

 

Strange that you think that is necessary ............ I wonder where on earth you got that idea from!

[john]

Strange that you think that is necessary ............ I wonder where on earth you got that idea from!

I saw that when I worked at a Sims school, laptops had to come in for .net framework updates, if the Sims update failed (say iffy network connection) all of Sims to be re-installed on the machine, all of which are pretty annoying and in my place non-existent with Serco as has been said it runs from a network share so I do 2 updates one to the main admin program (which does the database at the same time) then one for the web access and its all done and dusted.

 

I will agree that the Serco admin interface is poor, but Eportal is amazing. The admin and reporting (especially reporting) need a complete and utter overhaul! I don't know when they were last touched at all, its not changed in the 6 years I've been a Serco user! so the sooner the better really. But I do get by and find it intuitive as does our data manager, you just need to think Serco.

 

Support had got better I had found, and would have been saying good things and praising them of late, but since June time its really gone downhill, I was logging problems they were seeing them via go-to assist, but no speedy responses as I'd had before then, calls getting stuck with 2nd line etc. Yes it was end of term BUT its not as if its un-foreseen the end of term so that should be planned around at Serco IE no staff holidays, all staff in the office, all developers in etc etc Like them there is only so much in-advance testing we can do before we get to the end of term, so when it arrives things can and did go rather wrong for us.

 

I honestly think if we have even 1 minor problem with exam results down to Serco and not the exam boards then its curtains for it as it has been that bad! Our end of term reports were a joke, it was more random than anything you could imagine, one minute data was there the next it had vanished from the database, next it was back, it would stop reading through values for attendance, crash on calculating attendance % and then it would behave. It would change its mind and do different things if I used a different PC to do the exact same report with the same user account, it really was very strange (hence my concern for exam results as I don't want it randomly missing them out or adding in wrong grades as that will be very embarrassing!)

 

Yet at times it behaves beautifully but its been that bad now is, well was, the time to do major things like re-install it all if that's what its going to take etc but as no-ones bothering communicating with me, despite me suggesting that 3 weeks ago, I will now refuse to do it as I don't have time to flatten it all and reset it all up before the start of term (let alone exam results on Wednesday!), they (serco) can do it if they want but I am NOT paying for them to do it.

 

Anyway, I will say now that I've had a message on here from a Serco member who assures me they will get someone to call me on Monday morning to discuss the issue so we shall see.

[Tallwood_6]

Sounds like they should have taken a copy of your database weeks ago and done some proper investigation. Would have taken them know time at all and would have saved both you and support loads of grief.

[6Foot2]

We moved from Omnis [Key Solutions] to Sims to Serco [with the most recent change made with what seemed indecent haste at the time of changeover]

 

For my purposes Serco could be improve their product by:

 

• Improving their upgrade instructions
  
• Improving the upgrade processes [automatically remove/upgrade old or existing products]
  
• Removing the need for need for specific products to installed differently than the rest of the suite [scheduler]
  
• Improving report writing [not having to have substantial knowledge of SQL statements to get reports written]
  
• Improving report writing by not having to abandon all work on a partially written report if a mistake is made in the report part way through
  

 

Should I go on?

Do others here agree?

Does anyone want to add to this list?

Edited August 14, 2009 by 6Foot2
Correct formatting error in post.

[Sivadam]

Thank goodness we have SIMS ..........

[john]

Sounds like they should have taken a copy of your database weeks ago and done some proper investigation. Would have taken them know time at all and would have saved both you and support loads of grief.

The did take a copy and it works 110% perfect for them both admin and eportal never go wrong and were perfect, yet they have seen via GTA that it's not on mine!!! But cannot see anything wrong with what I am doing so its not me so it must be something with there product that is wrong! (See why I'm angry about it!) How hard is it for them to send someone to physically come and see us and look at it! I drove to them for my course so they should drive to me and look at it and see what they can find! It would be time well spent by them to do it as they are more likely to keep a customer by showing willing and a good support!

 

We moved from Omnis [Key Solutions] to Sims to Serco [with the most recent change made with what seemed indecent haste at the time of changeover]

 

For my purposes Serco could be improve their product by:

 

• Improving their upgrade instructions
  
• Improving the upgrade processes [automatically remove/upgrade old or existing products]
  
• Removing the need for need for specific products to installed differently than the rest of the suite [scheduler]
  
• Improving report writing [not having to have substantial knowledge of SQL statements to get reports written]
  
• Improving report writing by not having to abandon all work on a partially written report if a mistake is made in the report part way through
  

 

Should I go on?

Do others here agree?

Does anyone want to add to this list?

mmmm Omnis the joyful back end of RM Integris

 

As for your list, I don't find the upgrades too bad in the sense of actually doing them, the January upgrade was a disaster in terms of bugs / problems with the new version but the next major one was not bad really. Don't forget we have the 1st September upgrade coming which will fix some of the bugs from the last major one (so we may be able to print a full College timetable, something which still cannot be done in a suitable format!)

 

The report writing is very awkward and annoying tbh, that is where Sims has it as I believe its like working a mail-merge in reporting (so i'm told by our staff who come from a Sims background), yes Serco is far more powerful in what you can do in them but if it takes you 5hrs to write a simple report its not good really. I often spend many times looking aimlessly for database fields in the infamous "F9" list to no avail so end up phoning or emailing them to see where it is, as if its in the database it must surely be reportable (otherwise what is the point of having it in the database!) and its all too easy to get into a never ending loop whilst hunting for blasted fields to still get not what you want

[DMcCoy]

Strange that you think that is necessary ............ I wonder where on earth you got that idea from!

 

Well I have to run around workstations that use exams module and reinstall sims every time there is a patch. It doesn't work properly in a secure fashion with Office 2007. Very High CPU use due to latest home page changes. Inability to make backups that work with system manage for DBs over 4GB (they get corrupted - I take my own every day with SQL instead so don't notice). Broken command line reporter every other release. Non functional auditing system that "will be fixed at some point in the future". Client crashes when editing multiple staff/students in a row. Some very short sighted user/group settings for SLG. No automated provisioning for SLG. Inability for staff not in personnel to use SLG. Multiple functions that tie up the database for all users. Full backup between all patches applied at the same time. Inability to cope with " ' " in users names - input is not sanitised. No useable ADP reports after the initial install.

 

I have been waiting for a Nova problem to be fixed for a couple of years now, seems they just said it was awaiting a patch and closed the case. I also constantly get hassled by support every few weeks to investigate why my B2B is broken despite it always being the LEA server, which they know.

 

They haven't even fixed the sims login box losing focus after the applications launches. I also particuly enjoy watching the old icon change into the new one when loading, much like all the possible pages loading in solus over RDP.

[mikewilsonbisb]

I am in need of some support. Any Chance here ?

 

I am battling with the Schedule for my school in Serco Scheduler. I have added all my Restrictions etc. I have fixed in my classes that need to be fixed - due to time / staff / resource constraints.

 

Now I am ready to auto schedule starting with the Organised Blocks. However, when I run the auto Schedule Nothing wants to schedule and all events are skipped.

 

I have looked at my Event Specifications( Senior event spec no 2). I did find that my events were running for 0 of the 1-52 weeks. I have changed that in the event Spec and now the scheduling is 52 weeks form 1-52. Still things do not schedule.

 

I have been able to schedule events with the specification Registration (Event Spec 15). I have looked at the setup of this event spec and tried to match the Senior event spec to it.

 

I have attached a picture of the Activity Log when run in Analise and Auto Schedule mode. To me it does not give any clues.

 

Do you have any suggestions ? I feel sure I am looking for a school boy error.

 

Your help / comments on this situation would be much appreciated.

 

Mike Wilson.

 

Attached a file of my Activity Log - Sorry very much a novice !

[Sivadam]

Well DMcCoy, what can I say?

 

Some of those ‘complaints’ have no foundation here (e.g. Workstation Upgrades, Use of Office 2007, Nova Issues);

Some are there but are mere minor irritants (e.g. Multiple editing crash - yes I do agree it ought to be fixed.);

At least one I totally agree with how it is setup (All Users, both SIMS and SLG, SHOULD be in Personnel - to log their CRB for one thing!);

Some appear to be more issues with your Support Desk and not SIMS (I can only describe Capita Direct Support as ‘excellent’);

Some I haven’t a clue about anyway as they are technical and our ICT Services Team respond excellently every time I give them an issue – which invariable is a user based problem (all problems are channelled initially through myself).

 

What issues there are in SIMS pale into insignificance when you consider what is being delivered successfully without any hitches.

 

And that is me done for this Forum Thread (hopefully!)!

We could go on for ever discussing the pros and cons of any MIS!

Edited August 16, 2009 by Sivadam

[DMcCoy]

Well DMcCoy, what can I say?

 

That SIMS is not somehow magically better than all other MIS? They are all bad.

 

Some of those ‘complaints’ have no foundation here (e.g. Workstation Upgrades, Use of Office 2007, Nova Issues);

 

Although that doesn't stop them being any less serious, 2007 in particular requiring all macro security to be disabled in Office 2007 for profiles to work correctly, considering you must have a version of Office to use it.

 

Some are there but are mere minor irritants (e.g. Multiple editing crash - yes I do agree it ought to be fixed.);

 

Irritant does not even begin to describe the frustration caused to end users, especially those currently correcting an intake of 300+

 

At least one I totally agree with how it is setup (All Users, both SIMS and SLG, SHOULD be in Personnel - to log their CRB for one thing!);

 

What about those working in the school that are employed directly by the LEA to do so? We have no reason for them to have an employment record in SIMS, yet they have a SIMS login to do their required work at the school.

 

Some appear to be more issues with your Support Desk and not SIMS (I can only describe Capita Direct Support as ‘excellent’);

Some I haven’t a clue about anyway as they are technical and our ICT Services Team respond excellently every time I give them an issue – which invariable is a user based problem (all problems are channelled initially through myself).

 

I would describe using Capita's direct support desk as excruciating. Athough we had no choice after the removal of the LEA support team. There are a great many issues that no one ever seems to have sat down and thought about. NTLM authentication as the only (supported) option for SLG, helpfully excluding those users whose ISP forces them through a transparent proxy. Aparently the thousands of pounds of support for it don't get you anything if it's a sharepoint issue, despite being the only platform for SLG.

 

 

I wouldn't dream of saying that SIMS is any worse than any of the other MIS out there although I wouldn't ever call any of the MIS out there "good" either. They are necessary evil.

[Shirley_Swinbank]

In the Serco support team we consistently monitor our performance to try to ensure we provide the best possible service to our customers. As the Support Manager, I welcome any feedback from customers to help us improve service levels. I would, therefore, encourage any customer that feels that we are not providing adequate Support service levels to contact me directly [email protected]. Similarly, I would also welcome feedback in cases where we have exceeded customer expectations.

 

Clearly in the case raised by John we have not provided the level of service that our customers are entitled to and we have escalated this case to bring it to resolution and I would like to apologise on behalf of Serco for the frustration and disruption that this might have caused.

[john]

In the Serco support team we consistently monitor our performance to try to ensure we provide the best possible service to our customers. As the Support Manager, I welcome any feedback from customers to help us improve service levels. I would, therefore, encourage any customer that feels that we are not providing adequate Support service levels to contact me directly [email protected]. Similarly, I would also welcome feedback in cases where we have exceeded customer expectations.

 

Clearly in the case raised by John we have not provided the level of service that our customers are entitled to and we have escalated this case to bring it to resolution and I would like to apologise on behalf of Serco for the frustration and disruption that this might have caused.

Thank you for coming on here to post Shirley its nice to see that Serco are listening and keeping an eye on here, hopefully you maybe able to consider keeping an eye on the MIS forum here to provide snippets of info / limited quick support to people when they have little niggles and encourage them to, for the bigger things, contact yourselves via the portal or telephone, just like Capita do for us on here as I know that it is useful having Phil and others from Capita popping up to assist and point in the right directions as well as say please log a support case etc

 

I will update my "case" on here, I did receive a call from Serco this morning as arranged and Serco have apologised for the problems and I have had a 2nd line support representative working all day via Gotoassist on my PC and Server at the College looking into the problems and they are seeing my issues and are going to spend another day tomorrow looking at them, as they have made some progress today but need to do more work on it. We have also got contingency plans in place for Exam results on Wednesday should we have problems with those.

 

So its certainly not a case closed as of yet, but having them working on them on my system, as its clear it is something on our setup that is causing some of these problems as they cannot replicate them at Serco's offices, this is very good, I am sure Serco are very busy with everyone preparing for exam results and I am grateful for them understanding my concerns and seeing first hand that we are clearly having some key problems with the reporting part of the system in general and hence my concerns for Exams on Wednesday.

 

I am sure we will get a good resolution in the very near future for our issues and hopefully it will all be good from that point onwards as I am usually a very happy Serco user and this is the first time I've been a very cross one.

[michael2k6]

Thank you for coming on here to post Shirley its nice to see that Serco are listening and keeping an eye on here, hopefully you maybe able to consider keeping an eye on the MIS forum here to provide snippets of info / limited quick support to people when they have little niggles and encourage them to, for the bigger things, contact yourselves via the portal or telephone, just like Capita do for us on here as I know that it is useful having Phil and others from Capita popping up to assist and point in the right directions as well as say please log a support case etc

 

I will update my "case" on here, I did receive a call from Serco this morning as arranged and Serco have apologised for the problems and I have had a 2nd line support representative working all day via Gotoassist on my PC and Server at the College looking into the problems and they are seeing my issues and are going to spend another day tomorrow looking at them, as they have made some progress today but need to do more work on it. We have also got contingency plans in place for Exam results on Wednesday should we have problems with those.

 

So its certainly not a case closed as of yet, but having them working on them on my system, as its clear it is something on our setup that is causing some of these problems as they cannot replicate them at Serco's offices, this is very good, I am sure Serco are very busy with everyone preparing for exam results and I am grateful for them understanding my concerns and seeing first hand that we are clearly having some key problems with the reporting part of the system in general and hence my concerns for Exams on Wednesday.

 

I am sure we will get a good resolution in the very near future for our issues and hopefully it will all be good from that point onwards as I am usually a very happy Serco user and this is the first time I've been a very cross one.

 

Hi John,

 

In response to your post about keeping an eye on the forum in the MIS section, there are a few of us that keep an eye on the MIS section (and others) of Edugeek, especially for questions relating to Facility, ePortal, etc, but general questions also regarding SQL, Windows, etc. You probably wont find much activity during the day as supporting the support cases here as a seperate route into support would bypass queues and make monitoring cases difficult. But we do (i certainly do) help wherever possible in our free time, usually on an evening.

The best way to get help with the MIS always will be by calling the support desk or logging a call on firstline, but as you said, quirky little unimportant issues, or for straw polls, general advice, etc, i'm around when i can help, as are several others.

May i also thank you for your fairness in explaining the outcomes and updates on this forum rather than just logging the initial issue in frustration.

 

Michael Sanderson

Technical Engineer

Serco Learning

 

 

N.B - The above post is entirely my own and contains no views or opinions of my employer or any of my employers associates.