This Thursday What Are You Doing

[witch]

Just European elections around here.

 

As for voting, as soon as there are repercussions for not following through with pre-election promises I will vote, but at the moment they can promise the world just to get your vote and then not deliver on those promises (ever) and there are no come backs. I don't like being lied to.

 

 

So how does not voting at all help? It just allows the ones you don't like to get in with fewer votes.

I believe that there are parties who will deliver on their pre-election promises - or at least they should be given a chance.

 

 

As for things being controlled by 'the aristocracy' - I don't think so. Rich b****** maybe, but this doesn't make them aristocracy.

 

BTW, my MP is a local, who is nowhere near rich, lives an ordinary life in an ordinary town - doesn't claim for a second home and has no dodgy expenses either.

 

Given that there are over 600 MPS, I think we should remember that quite a few have NOT overclaimed on their expenses. Not that I approve of the ones that have.

[dalsoth]

We don't need a vote we need a revolution!

[localzuk]

You can convince yourself that an independent can make changes but I believe the reality is quite different. I would like to vote for someone who is part of a party that represents views that reflect my own. I would choose this over an independent who has similar views because the party can make changes whereas the independent can not.

 

I am not talking about local issues as such but rather in the broader sense of change. If what you are saying is right then why do parties exist at all? I would rather stick to something that could happen such as opening up the election process rather than pie in the sky wishing my local indie MP will change the way the whole judicial system works. That just won't happen.

 

It is views like that which allow for the current system to carry on as it is.

[jamesb]

Personally I tend to go in and just write 'no confidence' on a ballot paper. Sure, its a wasted vote in a way but there's usually no one I'd choose to vote for and I refuse to just sit at home and moan about the system. At least this way I've gone to some effort.

 

This time though I'll be voting for a local independent candidate.

 

However, once my finances are sorted out I'll be running myself.

[dalsoth]

It is views like that which allow for the current system to carry on as it is.

 

You say tomato i say avocado.

 

Disagree.

[sparkeh]

Can I just take the opportunity to point out that as the Euro Elections use proportional representation those 'protest votes' for extreme parties that people think won't really matter but give the other parties a bloody nose, really do count!

 

This is worth passing on to those people who are talking about voting this way to make them really understand the implications of their actions.

[elsiegee40]

My view is that unless you have voted, you have no right to complain about the actions of the elected representatives.

 

If you don't vote, how can you object to the actions of the person elected?...

 

Your vote may have been the critical one to stop that person being elected in the first place.

 

Your choice of candidate may not be elected, but if you have voted, at least you have expressed an opinion.

[tmcd35]

With the talk of independant candidates and BNP - this seemed very apt

 

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead

[jamesb]

My view is that unless you have voted, you have no right to complain about the actions of the elected representatives.

 

If you don't vote, how can you object to the actions of the person elected?...

 

Your vote may have been the critical one to stop that person being elected in the first place.

 

Your choice of candidate may not be elected, but if you have voted, at least you have expressed an opinion.

 

I do express an opinion, by filling out a ballot paper.

 

That opinion may be that I don't believe any of the candidates are suitable, but its still a valid opinion and I have at least gone to the effort to have it noted, in some tiny way.

 

Not voting at all is an entirely different thing.

[Andrew_C]

For the Euro election, there are groups of independents standing. Jury Party? Or similar. Ester Ranzen amongst them (not sure if that is in their favour!)

[dalsoth]

For the Euro election, there are groups of independents standing. Jury Party? Or similar. Ester Ranzen amongst them (not sure if that is in their favour!)

 

She has crazy teeth which scare me.

[enjay]

For the Euro election, there are groups of independents standing. Jury Party? Or similar.

 

Ours was similar - something like 15 candidates to choose from in all, some from 'parties of independents' such as the Jury Party and other totally independent ones.

 

My concern is how well informed most people's decisions will be - your average Joe on the Street is not going to go round all these parties' web sites to see what they stand for, and the only parties to have stuck anything through our door are the BNP and one-man-band The Rome Party Ave! (the exclamation mark is his, not mine, by the way!)

 

I was a little surprised to hear from the BNP in my area actually, as it is very multi-cultural - don't know if that would mean more support or less...

[sparkeh]

I was a little surprised to hear from the BNP in my area actually, as it is very multi-cultural - don't know if that would mean more support or less...

 

Also get their flyers in Leicester which initially surprised me, but thinking about it, perhaps they think that ethno-diverse areas are easier to stir up prejudices?

[AngryTechnician]

My view is that unless you have voted, you have no right to complain about the actions of the elected representatives.

 

If you don't vote, how can you object to the actions of the person elected?...

 

This.

 

I am always very blunt with people in pointing out that if you don't vote, your opinion doesn't count. That's not just me blowing steam; it really doesn't. It's highly unlikely that there will ever be a candidate stand with whom you agree on everything (unless you run yourself) so your best chance for changing things the way you would prefer is to vote for the candidate/party that most closely aligns with your views.

 

Not sure which party is most closely aligned with your views? This may help (found on the BBC website, and it's really quite good):

 

EU Profiler - Discover your position in the political landscape for the 2009 European Parliament Elections

[elsiegee40]

This.

 

I am always very blunt with people in pointing out that if you don't vote, your opinion doesn't count. That's not just me blowing steam; it really doesn't. It's highly unlikely that there will ever be a candidate stand with whom you agree on everything (unless you run yourself) so your best chance for changing things the way you would prefer is to vote for the candidate/party that most closely aligns with your views.

 

Not sure which party is most closely aligned with your views? This may help (found on the BBC website, and it's really quite good):

 

EU Profiler - Discover your position in the political landscape for the 2009 European Parliament Elections

 

 

Fair enough about point about the party most closely aligned to your views... BUT you still have to actually vote, regardless of how you decide to choose the candidate that you actually vote for. Sometimes, you may have to choose the lesser evil to vote for (because of the choice on your ballot paper) rather than get a candidate/party that is a 'perfect match'. If you really feel strongly that nobody/ no party represents your views... stand for election! (And I'm not talking about you personally!)

 

I still stand by my view that unless you actually vote for a candidate, there's little point objecting after the event to the candidate who has been elected. You could have done something about it in the first place.

[jamesb]

My results -

 

Conservatives 60%

Liberal Democrats 60%

UKIP 58%

Labour 56%

Green Party 54%

BNP 46%

 

So not really that useful, and its also about party ethics for me rather than just policy.

[enjay]

Sometimes, you may have to choose the lesser evil to vote for (because of the choice on your ballot paper) rather than get a candidate/party that is a 'perfect match'.

 

Very true. Where I used to live had a Conservative MP and very little showing from the Labour Party (middle class and farming communities, mostly) so the most effective anti-Tory vote (should you wish one) was actually Lib Dem, regardless of where your own views lay. A vote for Labour (or any other) was a vote wasted.

[tmcd35]

 

Not sure which party is most closely aligned with your views? This may help (found on the BBC website, and it's really quite good):

 

EU Profiler - Discover your position in the political landscape for the 2009 European Parliament Elections

 

Interesting quiz, pretty much told me what I knew - life long Labour supporter should be voting Lib Dem. Certainly I'll be voting LD until such time as Labour as votable again (probably a term or two away).

[elsiegee40]

Very true. Where I used to live had a Conservative MP and very little showing from the Labour Party (middle class and farming communities, mostly) so the most effective anti-Tory vote (should you wish one) was actually Lib Dem, regardless of where your own views lay. A vote for Labour (or any other) was a vote wasted.

 

 

I grew up in Harrogate and it was exactly the same there. There was 1 Labour councillor in 1 ward and all the rest were Tory or Liberal. The only way to oust Robert Banks, Conservative MP (not that I was old enough to vote then) was for people to vote Liberal. Trouble is I think Phil Willis, the Liberal who did get elected, is now in trouble over the expenses scandal... so I'm not sure what will happen in Harrogate now!

[witch]

If we had countrywide PR then your vote WOULD count.

 

Bothering to go and spoil your ballot paper makes no sense at all to me - the only person who will see it is some lowly vote-counter who will just log it with all the others that have more than one tick, or are illegible etc. What's the point?

I think that voting should be compulsory, as it is in MANY countries, BUT there must be a 'no confidence' box that you could tick.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

[jamesb]

If we had countrywide PR then your vote WOULD count.

 

Bothering to go and spoil your ballot paper makes no sense at all to me - the only person who will see it is some lowly vote-counter who will just log it with all the others that have more than one tick, or are illegible etc. What's the point?

I think that voting should be compulsory, as it is in MANY countries, BUT there must be a 'no confidence' box that you could tick.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

 

So your suggestion instead would be that I simply sit at home and don't vote at all? That seems even worse to me. It may be inneffective to spoil a ballot paper, but at least it shows something other than apathy, even if only to yourself.

 

There are no parties I agree with, not only enough to vote for, but even enough to believe that they would be a better option. I do a little to try and get my voice heard, and when I can I will be doing more. I actually read about various party policies as well, and look through manifestos. My political views don't come from a newspaper (I don't read them) or from television (I don't have one), they're as well-informed as I'm capable of making them with the resources within my reach.

 

This time I will actually be voting independent, but only because I believe that my local independent candidate is actually a good choice. Not to make a protest against another party.

 

I disagree that voting should be compulsory. People should not be forced to take an interest and, frankly, forcing them to vote wouldn't cause them to take an interest. Those of us who care enough to vote are much better off if those who don't care enough, don't vote.

 

Edit: Incidentally in the UK spoiled ballot papers are in fact still counted.

Edited June 2, 2009 by jamesb

[enjay]

I disagree that voting should be compulsory. People should not be forced to take an interest and, frankly, forcing them to vote wouldn't cause them to take an interest. Those of us who care enough to vote are much better off if those who don't care enough, don't vote.

 

Agreed - forcing people who don't care to vote will only skew the votes of those who do care. I do think that voting should be made more accessible to the lazy, busy, house-bound and apathetic with SMS/email/online/telephone voting, however I would rather it remains something which the interested choose to do and the disinterested don't get in the way of.

 

Does anyone worry about the fact that ballot numbers have unique numbers on them identifying whose paper it is, by the way?

[localzuk]

Hehe, those sort of diagrams always put me as far in the liberal direction as possible. And this one, as pro EU as possible

 

And it got my views quite right, I most likely will be voting Lib Dem or Green.

[jamesb]

Hehe, those sort of diagrams always put me as far in the liberal direction as possible. And this one, as pro EU as possible

 

And it got my views quite right, I most likely will be voting Lib Dem or Green.

 

Pah, Liberals.

 

 

I may have to vote Conservative in the EU election now now just to balance the scales.

[localzuk]

Pah, Liberals.

 

 

I may have to vote Conservative in the EU election now now just to balance the scales.

 

If you want to balance it, then you'd have to vote for UKIP