The rich get richer...

[witch]

brown gave him a knighthood for services to banking ffs. there was no talk of RBS's reckless expansion and the bonuses and pensions for the chief execs and pensions back then was there ?

 

Nothing like a scapegoat for systemic banking failure to deflect attention from the failings of chancellor brown.

 

 

And the likes of brown and prescott being indignant is the height of hypocrisy...godwin and the other failed bankers were busy giving brown the headlines he craved for his miracle, ponzi economy. and he gave him a knighthood as a big, fat thankyou. it was politically expedient to not regulate properly the actions of HBOS, rbs, northern crock et al.

 

don't be deflected by godwins pension and browns ludicrous posturing. what a pair of twits.

 

Absolutely - all this fuss is an attempt at deflecting the flak from the lot who are in power, and whose policies led us here in the first place. In the past, this sort of thing would have brought down a government but these days no one takes responsibility as they should do.

Fred Goodwin got that money under the terms of his contract - why on earth should he have to be bullied into giving it back? OF COURSE he doesn't deserve that sort of money but there are many many others who have loads of bonuses etc that should never have been paid to them. It is the system and the 'light-touch' that is to blame (and it is so sad as it is EXACTLY the sort of regulation that dear Mrs T and the capitalist Tories delighted in, and should be anathema to the socialists)

[torledo]

and should be anathema to the socialists

 

i agree, but nulabour aren't socialists.....corporate socialists yes.

 

the nulabour policies that are supposed to help the poor are infact policies to enrich their corporate buddies. there have also been plenty of policies to help the nulabour cronies. how things change....goodwins now about as welcome in no.10 and no.11 as herpes.

 

bet fred the shred isn't on mandy's christmas card list either. he was a bit perplexed that goodwin hadn't caved in.

 

anyone who get's two jags' granny pants in a twist can't be all bad. shurely ?

[SteveT]

It's the same the whole world over,

It's the poor that get the blame,

It's the rich that get the pleasure,

Ain't it all a bloody shame

[somabc]

He left before the banks started to fail etc so there was no mention of him having failed at anything until after the fact.

 

No he left because the bank had failed, and it was his disastrous idea to merge with ABN AMRO at the peak of the market that caused most of the losses.

 

The mistake the bank & government made was not sacking him for gross incompetence with no pay-off / pension.

[mattx]

Polly Toynbee's article today is interesting - in one sentance she sums it up for me:

 

'Sir Fred is a product of Britain's winner-takes-all culture that Labour never attempted to civilise.'

 

Polly Toynbee: Sir Fred's just one of millions to do better under Labour | Comment is free | The Guardian

[torledo]

Polly Toynbee's article today is interesting - in one sentance she sums it up for me:

 

'Sir Fred is a product of Britain's winner-takes-all culture that Labour never attempted to civilise.'

 

Polly Toynbee: Sir Fred's just one of millions to do better under Labour | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

i'm sorry, but quoting toynbee is a thread all of itself. where to begin....

 

first of all her article title is nonsense and at odds with large parts of her article, and she's all over the place with the content of her article saying something sensible one sentence and then saying something ludicrous and propogating mistruths the next.

 

entirely predictable for her to get the usual nulabour 'success' stories in there. surestart, tax credits, handouts for the poor. yawn. do me a favour.

 

but what can you expect from a nulabour luvvie like toynbee ?, she's been a rabid broon cheerleader for years, and even as the cold light of day shows most of their initiatives to be not up to much in reality, the luvvies continue to champion these supposedly fairer intiatives. And continue to portray brown and co. as these champions of the poor blindsided by the the CEO's and bankers.

 

it's all hokum. do yourself a favour and stop reading toynbee....unless you really want to be a sheep. would you prefer to read something more illuminating. try this...

 

BROWN REFUSES TO HAND BACK PENSION - The Daily Mash

[mattx]

Arrr, The Daily Mash - not sure whats worse - the Daily Mail or the Daily Mash...

Answers on a postcard.....

[torledo]

Arrr, The Daily Mash - not sure whats worse - the Daily Mail or the Daily Mash...

Answers on a postcard.....

 

what's that supposed to mean ?

 

you stick to toynbee then.....

 

and carry on posting more of her witterings in between those sensationalist 'news' story links that you like to amuse us with.

 

what's mattx favoured reading ? 'closer' or the notw ? answers on a postcard.

[mattx]

what's that supposed to mean ?

 

 

Well if you can't work it out then there is no hope for you.....

[torledo]

Well if you can't work it out then there is no hope for you.....

 

i can work out that the mash link a posted is satire.

 

but i'm stumped in trying to figure you out....are you just being a smart alec as usual or am i being really really slow. that's a rhetorical question, so you needed waste energy providing a one word answer.

 

how's about a quick either or straw poll to figure out which one of us is beyond hope. i'd like to think you'd come off second best in that vote, maybe that's hubris or maybe......

 

......i'm not entirely oblivious to other people's contributions to a discussion if i can learn something from them. :cough: :cough:

[witch]

torledo: don't waste your breath....(or typing fingers, in this case)

[torledo]

now harriet harperson decides to stick her oar in aswell about fred goodwins pension...to be fair that freak marr probably asked her about it, but her response has made it to the bbc frontpage.

 

BBC NEWS | Politics | Harman warning on Goodwin pension

 

what i find really funny is harperson referring to 'the court of public opinion' and how goodwins pension pot is 'money for nothing'.

 

none of the bankers should be rewarded for failure but isn't harpersons final salary pension 'money for nothing' also.....what does she do again ?

 

as for the 'court of public opinion', well nulabour can't be accused of not being populist over the last 8 years. perhaps that's why they've made such a mess of things.....trying to cater to the elusive 'public opinion' when it suits them and getting it hopelessly wrong.

[jamesb]

as for the 'court of public opinion', well nulabour can't be accused of not being populist over the last 8 years. perhaps that's why they've made such a mess of things.....trying to cater to the elusive 'public opinion' when it suits them and getting it hopelessly wrong.

 

The "public" rarely know what's best for them.

[Pyroman]

there's no need for all the arguing over this pension the government have got you all where they want you, talking about it rather than who cause the problems in the first place, this shouldn't be about his pension. He's gonna need his pension let him keep it, instead of following all the media hype you should all be thinking for yourselves about how this whole thing came about in the first place, Flash Gordon.

[jamesb]

He's gonna need his pension let him keep it, instead of following all the media hype you should all be thinking for yourselves about how this whole thing came about in the first place, Flash Gordon.

 

No one 'needs' £700 000 a year.

 

As to blaming Gordon, yes, partly, but its been a series of successive government failures that've caused this. Not just the latest one.

[broc]

While I share the sentiments expressed here and I am equally outraged at his 'payoff', the fact remains that this mans pension fund has been 'funded' by his & his employers (the shareholders) pension contributions and is his by right. The fact that he brought the bank to its knees because of his reckless leadership is indisputable but it does not remove the fact that his pension fund is legitimately his. It is not against the law to be reckless & useless at your job (especially in financial services or football management) so there does not appear to be any legal grounds for denying him his rights.

 

We should really be questioning the wisdom of the authorities allowing him to receive 100% payout at 50, especially as none of the RBS employees taking early retirement would receive 100% payout.

 

It is common practice (even in local govt) to sometimes offer enhanced pensions to encourage people to leave their employment. When I was offered early retirement (at 50) a few years ago I turned it down initially, my ex-employer came back with an improved offer which added 3 years to my pension..... admittedly a long way short of 100%

 

If anything, I think the financial advisors & people that handled his 'seperation' from the bank are the people that need to be in the dock.....

[jamesb]

While I share the sentiments expressed here and I am equally outraged at his 'payoff', the fact remains that this mans pension fund has been 'funded' by his & his employers (the shareholders) pension contributions and is his by right. The fact that he brought the bank to its knees because of his reckless leadership is indisputable but it does not remove the fact that his pension fund is legitimately his. It is not against the law to be reckless & useless at your job (especially in financial services or football management) so there does not appear to be any legal grounds for denying him his rights.

 

Unless they can pin him for criminal negligence.

[torledo]

there's no need for all the arguing over this pension the government have got you all where they want you, talking about it rather than who cause the problems in the first place, this shouldn't be about his pension. He's gonna need his pension let him keep it, instead of following all the media hype you should all be thinking for yourselves about how this whole thing came about in the first place, Flash Gordon.

 

pyroman, if you read some of my posts [and those of some other posters] you'll see that some of us are making the exact same point that you make about how he's a convenient scapegoat to divert attention from crash gordon. the govt. negotiated his departure back in october, they failed to do due diligence and look into the legality at the time and the whole thing has only been stoked up due to the details being leaked and then reported by robert peston [who else ?!!?]

 

i just find it amusing that harriet whatsherface made such daft remarks, trying to differentiate the legal courts from the 'court of public opinion' and trying the old moral hazard line as if it'll somehow encourgae goodwin 'to do the right thing'....while making veiled threats about clawing the money back by introducing new legislation. not so much carrot and stick, but nulabour spin.

 

As vince cable says that idea is potty, to bring out legislation for one case and one individual when all of this could have been averted if the govt. had gone through the details with a fine tooth comb during negotiations. Ofcourse all this debate is diverting attention, but minister antics over this have actually focused the attention on how the govts. are playing this.....which does not show them in a good light.

[Pyroman]

pyroman, if you read some of my posts [and those of some other posters] you'll see that some of us are making the exact same point that you make about how he's a convenient scapegoat to divert attention from crash gordon. the govt. negotiated his departure back in october, they failed to do due diligence and look into the legality at the time and the whole thing has only been stoked up due to the details being leaked and then reported by robert peston [who else ?!!?]

 

i just find it amusing that harriet whatsherface made such daft remarks, trying to differentiate the legal courts from the 'court of public opinion' and trying the old moral hazard line as if it'll somehow encourgae goodwin 'to do the right thing'....while making veiled threats about clawing the money back by introducing new legislation. not so much carrot and stick, but nulabour spin.

 

As vince cable says that idea is potty, to bring out legislation for one case and one individual when all of this could have been averted if the govt. had gone through the details with a fine tooth comb during negotiations. Ofcourse all this debate is diverting attention, but minister antics over this have actually focused the attention on how the govts. are playing this.....which does not show them in a good light.

 

sorry man just flicked through the thread between jobs, wasn' trying to say u were all flapping.

[silver]

Doesn't anyone else find Harriet's statement that the government can and will override the law rather scary?

[torledo]

Doesn't anyone else find Harriet's statement that the government can and will override the law rather scary?

 

it's totaly predictable.....

 

this lot love passing law, i'm sure there's some statistics about the extraordinary number of new laws they've passed.

 

they also only pay lip service to existing law, if it doesn't suit then create a superseding law or use 'national security' to justifiy doing what the hell they want anyway.

 

I expect they could go down the route of giving fred godwin the minimum pension and then putting the ball in his court to sue for the rest. Or it could be that harman is out on her own on this one, and that apart from a bit of arm twisting they are not willing to go the extra mile to claw it back.

 

brown's words were clearly just posturing, methinks harman got a bit carried away and she'll be put back in line.

[broc]

This whole thing is a 'storm in a teacup', designed to divert attention, keep the press busy & the public outraged while all sorts of other more important but even worse news gets sidelined....

 

This is standard political process employed by political parties of all persuasions

[torledo]

i agree broc, but how greedy is Fred godwin.

 

I was reading today how he was the highest paid Uk banker in 2000 following the natwest takeover, follow that up with a few more years of million pound plus earnings. Sure his RBS shares have probably whittled away to nothing, but it's not as if he couldn't have agreed to forgo half his pension quietly over the phone with lord myners. A man of his wealth would not miss a few hundred k a year, unless ofcourse he's been as good at investing money as he has in running RBS. I doubt he's been that daft with his own money [apart from having RBS share, LOL]

 

The guy is clearly very obstenate and greedy. Or perhaps he has an eye on his american cousins who were in charge of the investment banks and subprime lenders across the pond, some of whom have walked away with HUNDREDS of millions in earnings over recent years for mismanaging these companies.

 

Goodwins reward for failure is small change in comparison.